(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
This is all fine if we were actually talking about the origin of BJJ, which we are not, i was talking quite clearly about vale tudo, which is independant of bjj, and allowed for various styles to compete.
Besides which you fail to pointout is what Maeda taught Carlos
AND Helio gracie was not judo - else it would be called Brazilian judo- at the time it was known as "'Kano jiu-jutsu'"- he taught them effectively combat jujitsu (whcih judo was specialised from) to include standing strikes and knees, plus elements of boxing, european and indian catch wrestling he had learnt in vale tudo style bouts throughout his life. It also included eye gouging, groin strikes, head stamps, even biting was not unheard of. That is the typical bjj/catch wrestling that you may find in a vale tudo bout.
Its isnt the wrestling you do in your pre-fab cage on a wednesday night.
You said that BJJ has nothing to do with Judo. I pointed out that it does. Stop backpedaling.
I just didn't mention it; I'm well aware that Carlos Gracie taught Hélio (or as the legend goes Hélio learned from watching him teach classes). Umm, yeah, Kimura gave Gracie a 6th Dan ranking in Judo after their fight, which was how Judo rank was given back then; someone of higher Dan rank than you says you're a certain rank and that's what you were - it's even registered at the Kodokan. Judo was known as many things and spelled variously at the time Maeda was in Brazil: Judo, Jiu-do, Jujitsu, Jujutsu, Jiu-jitsu, Kano Jiu-jitsu, Kano Jujutsu, et cetera. So why did you say BJJ has nothing to do with Judo (you change your argument so many times it's ridiculous)? Yes, yes, I'm well aware of the various styles Maeda picked up in his prize-fighting career and travels - you'll notice I already posted about that many pages ago. And of course gouges and bites were allow in a no holds barred fight - that's why it's a "no holds barred fight"; it's still a part of BJJ and GJJs syllabus (it's just rarely practiced because there is no way to do so safely without resorting to kata forms, besides who needs training to gouge someone's eyes when you have them in full mount?).
Try Monday night, Tuesday morning and night, Wednesday night, Thursday morning and night, Friday night, Saturday morning, afternoon and night. Personal attacks and insinuations do not make an argument.