Do you think it was right to split India? Watch

This discussion is closed.
ThatPerson
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 7 years ago
#1
In 1947, India was split into Pakistan(Muslim Majority) and India(Hindu Majority), do you think this is right?

I don't think it is. I think it is a mark of failure for society to cooperate and get along, regardless of religion. There is no need for 2 majority religions to have separate countries, people should be able to integrate and associate themselves with people no matter what their religion is. The topic is old, but it is a better time to debate over it because we have the benefit of hindsight.

So, do you think it was right for India to be split into Pakistan and India?

EDIT: I forgot the poll, is there a way to add it in?
6
Politricks
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#2
Report 7 years ago
#2
For those who aren't very familiar with the partition of India:



~In 1947, India split into Pakistan, which comprised of Eastern and Western wings as seen above.
~in 1971, after a civil war, 90000 Pakistani soldiers surrender, and East Pakistan becomes an independent Bangladesh.


Muslims split off from India to form Pakistan because they were worried that they would be discriminated against by the Hindu majority. This caused more problems than it solved, after Pakistan was formed, Pakistan fell into civil war. At the end of the civil war, 90000 Pakistani soldiers surrendered and East Pakistan became Bangladesh.


One of the biggest ironies of Muslims splitting away from India to escape possible future injustice was that the Muslim government in West Pakistan inflicted their own injustices upon the Muslims and the Hindu minorities in East Pakistan.

Reasons for the 1971 civil war in Pakistan/ Bangladesh Liberation War/ Indo-Pakistani War:


1) West Pakistan (now just Pakistan) hogged a lot of the resources and money, obviously leaving East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) with a smaller share. Double the Pakistani rupees were spent on West Pakistan than on East Pakistan, you can imagine how the Bengali speaking population in East Pakistan felt about this.

Click on the image below to view the difference between how much was spent on West and East Pakistan
Name:  GOVERNMENT SPENDING.JPG
Views: 1434
Size:  31.9 KB

2) In 1948, Ali Jinnah declared that Urdu was to be the only language in all of Pakistan, the problem with this is that not everybody spoke Urdu, in East Pakistan, the Bengalis spoke Bengali, why should they give up their language? Several students who protested against this were shot in a police crackdown in 1952.

3) In 1970, Sheikh Mujibur Rahaman of the East Pakistani Bengali party, the Awami League, won the Pakistani national elections in a landslide victory, but Zulfikar Ali Bhutto refused to allow Rahman become the prime minister of Pakistan. Bhutto suggested that Pakistan should have 2 prime ministers after Rahman won, that caused outrage throughout East Pakistan because of such a silly and undemocratic idea, imagine Britain with 2 prime ministers?

4) In 1971, West Pakistan carried out operation searchlight to suppress the Bengali nationalist movement, in this operation, West Pakistan targeted all opposition, and murdered innocent Bengali professors and students in the students halls in East Pakistan. It's now clear how many innocent people were murdered by the Pakistani army, figures are as low as 35,000 and as high as 3,000,000. Even 35,000, the lowest estimate given by the English, is such a high number.

India's involvement in the war
Prime Minister of India, Indira Ghandi showed full support for the independence of Bangladesh. In September, propaganda, most likely from the West Pakistani government, was spread throughout West Pakistan, stickers saying "Crush India" was put on the rear windows of many cars in Pakistan. In November Pakistanis in West Pakistan marched out onto the streets calling for the Pakistani army to "Crush India". India was worried by this, so they mobilised on the borders of East Pakistan where the West Pakistani army was carrying out their atrocities. On the 3rd of December, the Pakistani Air Force took part in Operation Chengiz Khan and struck 11 Indian airfields, this pre-emptive attack was inspired by Israel's tactic in the 6 day war where Israel struck Egyptian airfields in Operation Focus or the "Sinai Air Strike". Only 1 Indian died and 1 light aircraft was destroyed in Pakistan's surprise attack, India did not respond to this very well, this was an act of war against India. Indian troops advanced into East Pakistan and battled with the West Pakistani soldiers, in 2 weeks 90,000 Pakistani soldiers surrendered on the 16th of December 1971 and were handed over to the Indian troops.




The undemocratic approach of West Pakistan when an East Pakistani Bengali won the elections in 1970 fuelled the anger of East Pakistanis, and Operation Searchlight in 1971 sparked the civil war.


At the end of 1971 Bangladesh Liberation war where East Pakistan became Bangladesh, 90,000 Pakistani soldiers surrendered to Bengali fighters and were handed over to the Indian forces.

Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, the leader of the Bengali East Pakistani party, the Awami League, which won the Pakistani elections in a landslide victory


The troop movements of the Indian, Bengali (Mukti Bahini) and Pakistani armies shortly before Pakistan's surrender



The Pakistani general, A. A. K. Niazi (not Nazi), signing the instrument of surrenderer




Pakistani soldiers laying down their weapons after 90000 surrendered in Dhaka, Bangladesh




Warning: graphic content
Spoiler:
Show
Skulls of Bengali civilians found in mass grave after being murdered by the West Pakistani army in 1971



Warning: graphic content
Spoiler:
Show
Bodies of dead Bengali intellectuals murdered by the West Pakistani army in the killing field in Rayabazar



The Blood Telegram
Archer Blood, the US general consul in East Pakistan, stood up against US foreign policy by speaking out against America's support of West Pakistan in the brutal civil war by sending a telegram to Nixon administration, Nixon ignored the telegram.

Extract from the Blood telegram: "Our government (the US government) has failed to denounce the suppression of democracy. Our government has failed to denounce atrocities. Our government has failed to take forceful measures to protect its citizens while at the same time bending over backwards to placate the West Pak[istan] dominated government and to lessen any deservedly negative international public relations impact against them. Our government has evidenced what many will consider moral bankruptcy,(...) But we have chosen not to intervene, even morally, on the grounds that the Awami conflict, in which unfortunately the overworked term genocide is applicable, is purely an internal matter of a sovereign state. Private Americans have expressed disgust. We, as professional civil servants, express our dissent with current policy and fervently hope that our true and lasting interests here can be defined and our policies redirected."









Summary
I believe the split up of India was a disaster and a tragedy which resulted in a genocide and 4 wars ( in 1947, 1965, 1971 and 1999) between Pakistan and India, one of the wars starting out as an internal conflict in Pakistan between East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) and West Pakistan (now Pakistan), a united East and West Pakistan was doomed to fail from the beginning.

To this day the 3 independent nations, India, Pakistan and Bangladesh have a complex relationship. Pakistan and India are still wary of each other, the last conflict between the two nations was in 1999, and tensions still remain over Kashmir. Pakistan is still psychologically hurt by the surrender of 90,000 Pakistani soldiers in 1971 and refuses to apologise to Bangladesh for Pakistan's war crimes, so relations between Bangladesh and Pakistan aren't exactly warm.






Would any of these events have happened had India not split up into Pakistan and Bangladesh as we know it today?
24
ThatPerson
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#3
Report Thread starter 7 years ago
#3
Would give you +rep but its not letting me, still, great post.
0
Politricks
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#4
Report 7 years ago
#4
(Original post by ThatPerson)
Would give you +rep but its not letting me, still, great post.
Thank you, I've edited out my post, so you may want to check it out again.
0
Golden_Boy786
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#5
Report 7 years ago
#5
(Original post by Politricks)
Muslims split off from India to form Pakistan because they were worried that they would be discriminated against by the Hindu majority. This caused more problems than it solved, after Pakistan was formed, Pakistan fell into civil war. At the end of the civil war, 90000 Pakistani soldiers surrendered and East Pakistan became Bangladesh.


One of the biggest ironies of Muslims splitting away from India to escape possible future injustice was that the Muslim government in West Pakistan inflicted their own injustices upon the Muslims and the Hindu minorities in East Pakistan.

Reasons for the 1971 civil war in Pakistan/ Bangladesh Liberation War/ Indo-Pakistani War:


1) West Pakistan (now just Pakistan) hogged a lot of the resources and money, obviously leaving East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) with a smaller share. Double the Pakistani rupees were spent on West Pakistan than on East Pakistan, you can imagine how the Bengali speaking population in East Pakistan felt about this.

Click on the image below to view the difference between how much was spent on West and East Pakistan
Name:  GOVERNMENT SPENDING.JPG
Views: 1434
Size:  31.9 KB

2) In 1948, Ali Jinnah declared that Urdu was to be the only language in all of Pakistan, the problem with this is that not everybody spoke Urdu, in East Pakistan, the Bengalis spoke Bengali, why should they give up their language? Several students who protested against this were shot in a police crackdown in 1952.

3) In 1970, Sheikh Mujibur Rahaman of the East Pakistani Bengali party, the Awami League, won the Pakistani national elections in a landslide victory, but Zulfikur Ali Bhutto refused to allow Rahman become the prime minister of Pakistan. Bhutto suggested that Pakistan should have 2 prime ministers after Rahman won, that caused outrage throughout East Pakistan because of such a silly and undemocratic idea, imagine Britain with 2 prime ministers?

4) In 1971, West Pakistan carried out operation searchlight to suppress the Bengali nationalist movement, in this operation, West Pakistan targeted all opposition, and murdered innocent Bengali professors and students in the students halls in East Pakistan. It's now clear how many innocent people were murdered by the Pakistani army, figures are as low as 35,000 and as high as 3,000,000. Even 35,000, the lowest estimate given by the English, is such a high number.

India's involvement in the war
Prime Minister of India, Indira Ghandi showed full support for the independence of Bangladesh. In September, propaganda, most likely from the West Pakistani government, was spread throughout West Pakistan, stickers saying "Crush India" was put on the rear windows of many cars in Pakistan. In November Pakistanis in West Pakistan marched out onto the streets calling for the Pakistani army to "Crush India". India was worried by this, so they mobilised on the borders of East Pakistan where the West Pakistani army was carrying out their atrocities. On the 3rd of December, the Pakistani Air Force took part in Operation Chengiz Khan and struck 11 Indian airfields, this pre-emptive attack was inspired by Israel's tactic in the 6 day war where Israel struck Egyptian airfields in Operation Focus or the "Sinai Air Strike". Only 1 Indian died and 1 light aircraft was destroyed in Pakistan's surprise attack, India did not respond to this very well, this was an act of war against India. Indian troops advanced into East Pakistan and battled with the West Pakistani soldiers, in 2 weeks 90,000 Pakistani soldiers surrendered on the 16th of December 1971 and were handed over to the Indian troops.




The undemocratic approach of West Pakistan when an East Pakistani Bengali won the elections in 1970 fuelled the anger of East Pakistanis, and Operation Searchlight in 1971 sparked the civil war.


At the end of 1971 Bangladesh Liberation war where East Pakistan became Bangladesh, 90,000 Pakistani soldiers surrendered to Bengali fighters and were handed over to the Indian forces.

Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, the leader of the Bengali East Pakistani party, the Awami League, which won the Pakistani elections in a landslide victory


The troop movements of the Indian, Bengali (Mukti Bahini) and Pakistani armies shortly before Pakistan's surrender



The Pakistani general, A. A. K. Niazi (not Nazi), signing the instrument of surrenderer




Pakistani soldiers laying down their weapons after 90000 surrendered in Dhaka, Bangladesh




Warning: graphic content
Spoiler:
Show
Skulls of Bengali civilians found in mass grave after being murdered by the West Pakistani army in 1971



Warning: graphic content
Spoiler:
Show
Bodies of dead Bengali intellectuals murdered by the West Pakistani army in the killing field in Rayabazar



The Blood Telegram
Archer Blood, the US general consul in East Pakistan, stood up against US foreign policy by speaking out against America's support of West Pakistan in the brutal civil war by sending a telegram to Nixon administration, Nixon ignored the telegram.

Extract from the Blood telegram: "Our government has failed to denounce the suppression of democracy. Our government has failed to denounce atrocities. Our government has failed to take forceful measures to protect its citizens while at the same time bending over backwards to placate the West Pak[istan] dominated government and to lessen any deservedly negative international public relations impact against them. Our government has evidenced what many will consider moral bankruptcy,(...) But we have chosen not to intervene, even morally, on the grounds that the Awami conflict, in which unfortunately the overworked term genocide is applicable, is purely an internal matter of a sovereign state. Private Americans have expressed disgust. We, as professional civil servants, express our dissent with current policy and fervently hope that our true and lasting interests here can be defined and our policies redirected."









Summary
I believe the split up of India was a disaster and a tragedy which resulted in a genocide and 4 wars ( in 1947, 1965, 1971 and 1999) between Pakistan and India, one of the wars starting out as an internal conflict in Pakistan between East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) and West Pakistan (now Pakistan), a united East and West Pakistan was doomed to fail from the beginning.

To this day the 3 independent nations, India, Pakistan and Bangladesh have a complex relationship. Pakistan and India are still wary of each other, the last conflict between the two nations was in 1999, and tensions still remain over Kashmir. Pakistan is still psychologically hurt by the surrender of 90,000 Pakistani soldiers in 1971 and refuses to apologise to Bangladesh for Pakistan's war crimes, so relations between Bangladesh and Pakistan aren't exactly warm.






Would any of these events have happened had India not split up into Pakistan and Bangladesh as we know it today?

Just because you come up with statistical analysis doesn't mean your theory is correct. By criticising what the west pakistan did back then. I think you should have mentioned the huge number of muslims that were murdered during the separation.
0
Sisu
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#6
Report 7 years ago
#6
No idea although your reasons for stating that they shouldn't is a little idiotic. Yes, it sucks that two major religions couldn't get along but so what? Sometimes in the same way people identify with each other based on ethnicities/nationality, people identify with each other based on religion. It's not about what people should do. People should be logical, people should be nice etc etc. But, people aren't nice and people aren't logical. Hence, you're going to have to operate and not continue to spout some optimistic **** about people being nice to each other when they aren't going to be just because you say so.

Where the a lot of tensions between Pakistan and India? Was there violence? With the information at the time, did it look like violence was going to increase? Were the people demanding splitting? If answer is yes then yes they should have been split. Looking back at it from our current historical knowledge, I don't know because history (I know about counterfactual history but I think it's bull**** field as do many historians) doesn't work like that. You can't predict what would happen had X happened instead of Y.
0
Politricks
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#7
Report 7 years ago
#7
(Original post by Golden_Boy786)
Just because you come up with statistical analysis doesn't mean your theory is correct. By criticising what the west pakistan did back then. I think you should have mentioned the huge number of muslims that were murdered during the separation.
No, you're right, statistical analysis doesn't always mean one is right, but it gives a lot more credibility to a claim when justified with evidence.
0
ALII
Badges: 5
Rep:
?
#8
Report 7 years ago
#8
(Original post by Golden_Boy786)
Just because you come up with statistical analysis doesn't mean your theory is correct. By criticising what the west pakistan did back then. I think you should have mentioned the huge number of muslims that were murdered during the separation.
The Bengalis that were slaughtered by the Pakistanis were Muslims
0
Golden_Boy786
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#9
Report 7 years ago
#9
(Original post by ALII)
The Bengalis that were slaughtered by the Pakistanis were Muslims
Of course the whole planet knows pakistanis are muslims. You my friend have just defeated the purpose of the thread. I suggest you read the opening comment before you impose your irrational comment.
0
ALII
Badges: 5
Rep:
?
#10
Report 7 years ago
#10
(Original post by Golden_Boy786)
Of course the whole planet knows pakistanis are muslims. You my friend have just defeated the purpose of the thread. I suggest you read the opening comment before you impose your irrational comment.
Read my post again. I said Pakistanis killed Bengalis and guess what?.. Majority of Bengalis are MUSLIMS.
0
username818763
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#11
Report 7 years ago
#11
(Original post by ALII)
The Bengalis that were slaughtered by the Pakistanis were Muslims
This thread isn't about religion dude...
0
Golden_Boy786
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#12
Report 7 years ago
#12
Still you can't prove that the people the pakistanis killed were muslims or not. Its not as if all Bengalis are muslim even though the majority are.

Next time if you want to create a strong argument, i advise you to backup your argument with evidence.
0
RyanT
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#13
Report 7 years ago
#13
India was not split up enough, now we must contend with a massive state as a future rival. Should of been cut up into 20-30 million people segments.
4
longman240
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#14
Report 7 years ago
#14
As a Pakistani, I feel sickened by the crimes that we committed against Bangladesh, it should never have happened and the Pakistani media have tried their best to make people forget it ever happened and paint Bhutto as some sort of massive hero. The fact that they still haven't issued an official apology is a sign that we simply refuse cohesion with Bangladesh and an apology is long overdue.

Personally, I think India could not have sustained itself without splitting apart, Muslims were being brutally murdered and endlessly persecuted in India and all the events had to come to a head somewhere and that "somewhere" was Pakistan.
4
ALII
Badges: 5
Rep:
?
#15
Report 7 years ago
#15
(Original post by arnoob)
This thread isn't about religion dude...
I know mate, Golden_Boy786 said to Politricks "Just because you come up with statistical analysis doesn't mean your theory is correct. By criticising what the west pakistan did back then. I think you should have mentioned the huge number of muslims that were murdered during the separation."


I'm saying he did state that a huge number of Muslims were killed as the Bengalis were Muslims who were slaughtered by Pakistanis.
0
star10159
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#16
Report 7 years ago
#16
(Original post by Politricks)
x
What about the Thousands of people murdered by the Indian army in kashmir?
0
ALII
Badges: 5
Rep:
?
#17
Report 7 years ago
#17
(Original post by Golden_Boy786)
Still you can't prove that the people the pakistanis killed were muslims or not. Its not as if all Bengalis are muslim even though the majority are.

Next time if you want to create a strong argument, i advise you to backup your argument with evidence.
err... majority of Bengalis are Muslims and no doubt that Bengalis which were killed by the Pakistanis were mostly Muslims. Today 89.7% of Bengalis in Bangladesh are Muslims.
0
Politricks
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#18
Report 7 years ago
#18
(Original post by star10159)
What about the Thousands of people murdered by the Indian army in kashmir?
It's a tragedy.
0
A Mysterious Lord
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#19
Report 7 years ago
#19
I think it was the lesser of two evils, partition India or let it destroy itself through civil war.
0
Golden_Boy786
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#20
Report 7 years ago
#20
(Original post by ALII)
err... majority of Bengalis are Muslims and no doubt that Bengalis which were killed by the Pakistanis were mostly Muslims. Today 89.7% of Bengalis in Bangladesh are Muslims.
This argument is going anywhere.

Whats the dispute all about?

Its not even relevant to the thread.:confused:
0
X
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

How has the start of this academic year been for you?

Loving it - gonna be a great year (109)
17.99%
It's just nice to be back! (163)
26.9%
Not great so far... (217)
35.81%
I want to drop out! (117)
19.31%

Watched Threads

View All