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Is it just me or is there a culture of manbashing within education? watch

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    Exhibit A: Well, OK, you may be referring specifically to a case of women being paid less than men, for the same work, but looking at things in a more general sense (as I'm in no position to refer to this example), the average salary figures between the genders are misleading. As I've touched upon, the average salary figures for men are skewed by a few, very high-earning men, whose figures are that many times higher than the average salary, that, in themselves, they serve to up the average salary figure for men in general, slightly; for skewed data such as this, the mean salary figure, which is quoted by feminists, is inappropriate a measure of the average; being unrepresentative of the salaries for men.
    The median salaries are now usually used, as the mean salaries are skewed too highby the rich ( the majority being men) as they are not representative of the general population. Your point is valid if slightly misguided. Even with the median income being taken into account males earn 17% more then women according to the most recent study. This suggests a decrease in the wage gap as it was higher previously but it still exists,

    Women traditionally stayed at home and looked after the children ans this is still the case in the majority of homes. If a woman has a child then she is likely to take maternity leave at the very least if not becoming a full time mother. So if a woman in a professional career ( eg teaching) took maternity leave she wouldnt rise up the career ladder. Whilst men when they have children tend to stay in their job and so are more likely to rise to the higher paying positions in the workplace.
    Women don't have to sacrifice their careers to look after kids; blaming it all on some sort of social expectation does seem a tad lame.
    My above statement diagrees with ur argument

    The expectations of women are also a factor, although this is very difficult to measure , the amount of case studies is staggering that suggest the career aspirations of women differ then that of men, while men would always tend to go for the promotion a woman perhaps would not. I believe this to be a small factor not a significant one.
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    Exhibit B: But how are these figures to be interpreted? Remember, the conviction figures are surely going to be relative (i.e. a percentage of all cases). What if more false accusations of rape (which certainly wouldn't surprise me) are taking place? And, as regards the belief by some that the woman was partly responsible: interpret with extreme care. I'm sure that no-one (spare, perhaps, a tiny number of disturbed, complete ********s)'s suggesting that women deserved to be raped; perhaps the figures imply that some people accept that women could do more to protect themselves from potential rape. These figures, I don't believe, suggest that people think any fewer convictions should be made, proportionately. I know what I'm saying is treading upon dangerous territory, so please don't take it the wrong way, but there is a difference between encouraging something, and deserving it. I mean, if I were to dress up in women's clothing, and skip past a gang of thugs (apologies for the most random of examples), I don't think I'd deserve the beating I might very well get, but I would most certainly have encouraged it; I wouldn't have acted in very responsible a manner. This idea has been discussed in the 'Do some people encourage bullying' thread; it was concluded, by many, that, while no-one deserved it, some did encourage it. Maybe this is similar to some people's belief about rape?
    Firstly you are treading on very thin ice, rape is about a sensitive topic as you can get.
    "while no-one deserved it, some did encourage it. Maybe this is similar to some people's belief about rape?"

    Just because they are vulnerable does not justify the crime. The "she was asking for it " argument does not stand up. Consent is consent, No is NO. If a shopkeeper puts items that are for sale in a place that could be easily taken that does not lessen the crime. The person takes a conscience decision to steal.
    A very influential theory is that rape is a form off power and control, which I think is true. Power is gained through the supression of others. This also applies to domestic violence . Differing surveys provide different stats, but one startling one said that 40% of domestic violence was committed by women towards men.
    I feel this subscribes to the power theory. while a woman may not be physically able to rape a man, other forms of domestic abuse can be achieved by women. Male domestic violence is also less likely to be reported due to the negative stigma, and the "masculine" problem where he would be considered less of a man for being abused by a woman.
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    Exhibit C: I have two ideas, as regards this. Firstly: whether or not men or women share an uneven amount of the housework, in any given household, I honestly know not. But, in my opinion, women seem to prefer housework, than do men. And, no, this isn't my pathetic, chauvinistic attempt at justifying such an inequality, but it's what I've observed. I had a mother who seemed house-proud in the extreme, seeing it as a sign of respect, to have a spotless abode; women seem to care more than do men, about, say, curtains being straight, or clothes being ironed. Some may argue that my example is old-fashioned, but I have other experiences which support my argument: I've shared houses with guys and girls, and, very often, the girls seemed very quick to do housework. One girl seemed to clean the floors, obsessively, every couple of days: was that through oppression/social expectation, or personal choice? Maybe a lot of the reported additional housework performed by women is optional? I'd never expect a wife or girlfriend to do more housework than me, but if she did so of her own accord, well.....also, it isn't fair, in such circumstances, to expect the man to do as much; if women have higher standards with regards to this, then they have higher standards, as regards to this. If I had a wife with such habits as those described, I'd find it unreasonable to be expected to do as much as her, as I'd consider it to be excessive. Us guys are generally a little bit more lax, in this respect, it's true; but let's not immediately brand us as chauvinists who wish to see our wives slave over the house, because it isn't always as clear cut as that.
    You are using case studies that are not representative. I can do the same, for example my mom is always complaining to her husband about not doing as much housework as he should but nothing seems to change . Or my friend who's dad is a house husband and does a lot of the housework.

    Countless research has gone into this subject, and I will research this as its too late to look at my notes now. The general jist of the reasearch is that women still do the majority of house work.

    A study that relates to a similar topic and is still conjugal roles is childcare. Bulanda found in their study that the attitudes of fathers dictated how much time they spent towards childcare and not the attidutes of the women. Bulanda found that men of egalitarian views were more likely to help with choldcare compared to fathers with traditional views.
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    (Original post by bengal_tiger)
    The median salaries are now usually used, as the mean salaries are skewed too highby the rich ( the majority being men) as they are not representative of the general population. Your point is valid if slightly misguided. Even with the median income being taken into account males earn 17% more then women according to the most recent study. This suggests a decrease in the wage gap as it was higher previously but it still exists,
    I was under the impression that the mean salaries were considered, and you say nothing to support your claim that the median salaries are now considered, but you could be right, and I could be wrong, admittedly.

    (Original post by bengal_tiger)
    The expectations of women are also a factor, although this is very difficult to measure , the amount of case studies is staggering that suggest the career aspirations of women differ then that of men, while men would always tend to go for the promotion a woman perhaps would not. I believe this to be a small factor not a significant one.
    Sounds like a very significant factor, to me.

    (Original post by bengal_tiger)
    Firstly you are treading on very thin ice, rape is about a sensitive topic as you can get.
    "while no-one deserved it, some did encourage it. Maybe this is similar to some people's belief about rape?"

    Just because they are vulnerable does not justify the crime. The "she was asking for it " argument does not stand up. Consent is consent, No is NO. If a shopkeeper puts items that are for sale in a place that could be easily taken that does not lessen the crime.
    But who's said anything about rape being justified? Who said anything about bullying being justified, in that thread I used as an example? I'm pointing out that things can be encouraged, even if not in the slightest bit justified; this would doubtlessly have been the way of thinking of those who believed that some women encouraged rape; that women could do more to protect themselves from rape, would've been what they thought. Nobody's suggesting that the crime is any lesser, dependent on circumstances; a lot of people are misunderstanding the context of these people's opinions. Surely you can understand the difference between encouragement, and justification? You've entirely missed the point.

    (Original post by bengal_tiger)
    You are using case studies that are not representative. I can do the same, for example my mom is always complaining to her husband about not doing as much housework as he should but nothing seems to change . Or my friend who's dad is a house husband and does a lot of the housework.

    Countless research has gone into this subject, and I will research this as its too late to look at my notes now. The general jist of the reasearch is that women still do the majority of house work.
    Possibly my 'case studies' are unrepresentative; I wasn't suggesting they were truly representative, necessarily, but I do truly believe that my points are valid. Women do seem to have higher standards, when it comes to household tidiness and hygiene, and do seem to enjoy housework more than do men; what I am saying is that these facts go at least some of the way to explaining certain 'statistics'.
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    when I saw the thread title I thought it said 'masturbating'!!! I was like, where did YOU go to school??!!! hahahhahahahaaa

    anyway, that's my two cents.
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    Politics is a little like this too, feminism is done ad nauseum, yet the counter poise, that is masculinism is not even heard of it the course.
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    hmmm possibly within certain fields like psychology and sociology there is a certain attitude against men, and probably partly due to a lack of men in those fields to stick up for themselve. I guess the most of the men are too busy furthering the human race in the fields of science, plumming brick laying, and refuse collecting(these are actually useful too), to be interested in that ****.

    on a more serious note, i think its just a bit of a backlash from the fact that women were(and still are to some extent) opressed in the past. That and the fact that its part of the nature of the human race that rightly or wrongly men dominate/have control and in a modern civilized society where everyone is equal this probably needs to be countered in some way to give a level play field. To be honest, i'd say feminism is a great thing(at the moment however it is just an annoying concept), as masculinism is being applied and lived out, even if subconsiously,everday of our lives. I sure as hell take men far more seriously than i take women, through no fault of my own, its natural. But we aren't living in cave man times where men can do what they want, so its good for women to have a voice.

    i might add however.....that most, if not ALL, "feminists", are annoying and ugly as ****.
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    (Original post by ninman)
    if there's one thing I can't stand, it's women who get positions of power. Have you ever noticed how women seem to love power tripping. All the women managers of companies or "bosses", seem to be taking one giant power trip. It seems they have the whole "let's get back at the men" attitude.
    Hmm... reminds me of basically all of my schoolteachers. It was always the women who were petty, uptight and certainly didn't create a comfortable learning environment.

    But meh, social attitudes in favour of feminism have gone somewhat too far. And the so-called feminists of today do absolutely nothing to further gender equality.
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    There will always be people belonging to both sexes who stereotype women in masculine jobs and men in feminine jobs. Rape does need to be taken more seriously, but not just in the case of women. Help and justice is needed for both male and female victims of rape.
    If the world consisted of just one sex, would rape and stereotyping and different career options happen? Yes.

    In my opinion, feminism's aim was to give women freedom to be independent and allow them to make unrestricted life choices, and it has done that. I'm a female student who recieves the same opportunities as her male counterparts.
    So really, I think it's time feminism was put in the past where it happened and that we should look forward to the present day problems facing society.
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    (Original post by high priestess fnord)
    :rofl: i havnt done phycology but Oedipus theory is just plain wrong (in the eew gross way). it isnt just about men. it also claims that women are sexually attracted to their fathers and look for men with similar qualties. its a much debated phycological theory. i rele dont think its nething about man bashing. it was thought up by a man after all.
    Women having sexual desires for their father is also known as the 'Electra complex', the female equivalent of the 'Oedipus complex'.
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    (Original post by bengal_tiger)
    I feel this subscribes to the power theory. while a woman may not be physically able to rape a man, other forms of domestic abuse can be achieved by women. Male domestic violence is also less likely to be reported due to the negative stigma, and the "masculine" problem where he would be considered less of a man for being abused by a woman.
    Men can be raped by women.
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    (Original post by El Scotto)
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    specifically within psychology/counselling or sociology...

    man bashing seems to be engrained, or is it just me?

    its getting old now, considering its 2006 and things have started turning the other way, and women have more opportunities than men nowadays,

    when it comes to rights of the father, the numbers of females in higher education, not to mention the equal opportunties act which promotes the chosing of sex over ability....
    Men are still dominant in academia, politics, religion, and in the wealthiest section of society. Sounds like all the traditional sources of power that comprise patriarchy to me.

    There are also women in dire circumstances in our ethnic minority communities, as well as around the globe. Femminism still has a vital role in fighting the sexist proscriptions of Islam, and in creating genuine equality in Western societies. I dont think that Britain is a sexually equal society, and I think that America and continental Europe are behind us. There is much still to do.
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    (Original post by Serenity87)
    There will always be people belonging to both sexes who stereotype women in masculine jobs and men in feminine hobs. Rape does need to be taken more seriously, but not just in the case of women. Help and justice is needed for both male and female victims of rape.
    If the world consisted of just one sex, would rape and stereotyping and different career options happen? Yes.

    In my opinion, feminism's aim was to give women freedom to be independent and allow them to make unrestricted life choices, and it has done that. I'm a female student who recieves the same opportunities as her male counterparts.
    So really, I think it's time feminism was put in the past where it happened and that we should look forward to the present day problems facing society.
    Here, here; you sound like a very reasonable, nice person.

    (Original post by pendragon)
    Men are still dominant in academia, politics, religion, and in the wealthiest section of society. Sounds like all the traditional sources of power that comprise patriarchy to me.

    There are also women in dire circumstances in our ethnic minority communities, as well as around the globe. Femminism still has a vital role in fighting the sexist proscriptions of Islam, and in creating genuine equality in Western societies. I dont think that Britain is a sexually equal society, and I think that America and continental Europe are behind us. There is much still to do.
    You need your f***ing balls re-attached; it's men like you that are part of the problem, when it comes to the prevailing female-biased ways of Western society. And you clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about; America is even more female-biased.
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    (Original post by dyslexic_banana)
    You need your f***ing balls re-attached; it's men like you that are part of the problem, when it comes to the prevailing female-biased way of Western society.
    Im in possession of my balls thankyou very much, and I like sexually submissive girls in the bedroom, but feminism is about choice and girls can choose to be tied up and spanked.

    Still your deluded if you think there is gender equality in the Britain. Western society is not female-biased, whatever political correctness is in place hardly remedies the facts on the ground. Those facts are that men dominate all the positions of power in society, and that women still earn less, and are the victims of violence, rape and abuse from predominantly male offenders. I dont understand where this sense of male aggreivement comes from, it is the production of a fantasy world.
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    I'd rather be seen as equal (but it won't happen) to my male counterparts - not above, and not below. Political correctness has gone absolutely crazy in this country, to the point where it's a joke.

    (This is slightly related, I think - my grandmother thinks that when I'm old enough, I should use my vote in the general election, as hundreds of women strained to get me the right to. I'm grateful for the RIGHT to vote, but I don't necessarily have to feel in debt. And besides...in the three main parties, you have a twelve year old, a pillock, and someone who's about to start collecting his pension.)
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    (Original post by pendragon)
    Still your deluded if you think there is gender equality in the Britain. Western society is not female-biased, whatever political correctness is in place hardly remedies the facts on the ground. Those facts are that men dominate all the positions of power in society, and that women still earn less, and are the victims of violence, rape and abuse from predominantly male offenders. I dont understand where this sense of male aggreivement comes from, it is the production of a fantasy world.
    I've offered explanations as to why there are more men in positions of power, and as to why men earn less; if your argument is so good, you try and offer explanations as to the examples I give of sexism against men.

    P.S. Men are more likely to be victims of violent crime, then are women.
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    (Original post by dyslexic_banana)
    I've offered explanations as to why there are more men in positions of power, and as to why men earn less; if your argument is so good, you try and offer explanations as to the examples I give of sexism against men.

    P.S. Men are more likely to be victims of violent crime, then are women.
    But most violent criminals are men.

    The reason for over the top political correctness etc is obviously posative discrimination to redress an inequality which still exists.
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    (Original post by pendragon)
    Men are still dominant in academia, politics, religion, and in the wealthiest section of society. Sounds like all the traditional sources of power that comprise patriarchy to me.
    It is true that men are dominant in politics and religion etc. however what you seem to be sugesting is a society where to be acceptable everything has to be exactly even i.e. 50% of people in every role should be male and 50% female. This in itself leads to discrimination as jobs etc. will be allocated to meet quotias for race and gender etc. rather then who would be the best for the job. Everyone should have equal oppotunity and be chosen for a job based upon their ability rather then being chosen over a better candidate who doesn't fit the reqired profile.
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    (Original post by Nefarious)
    It is true that men are dominant in politics and religion etc. however what you seem to be sugesting is a society where to be acceptable everything has to be exactly even i.e. 50% of people in every role should be male and 50% female. This in itself leads to discrimination as jobs etc. will be allocated to meet quotias for race and gender etc. rather then who would be the best for the job. Everyone should have equal oppotunity and be chosen for a job based upon their ability rather then being chosen over a better candidate who doesn't fit the reqired profile.
    Posative discrimination is temporary, but once there have been a lot of women Prime Ministers, billionaires (Archbishops and Popes might take to long to wait for) we can abandon it. To fundamentally change attitudes a period of posative discrimination is necessary, or it will take generations for incremental progress to achieve anything significant.

    Have you considered that the present aggressive adversarial nature of politics is not suited to many women? Look at Prime Ministers questions and all the schoolboy shouting and taunting that goes on. Only Thatcher managed to be tough enough to overcome it, and many people would say that she did so by becoming more male. Perhaps politics needs to be reconstructed and feminised so that there is more equal opportunity for women to succede on the basis of their own merits and talents. Women and men do things differently, but they can still be equal, its just that many things which we are used to and regard as gender nuetral are in fact constructed by men to cater to male ways of thinking and doing things.
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    (Original post by pendragon)
    Have you considered that the present aggressive adversarial nature of politics is not suited to many women? Look at Prime Ministers questions and all the schoolboy shouting and taunting that goes on. Only Thatcher managed to be tough enough to overcome it, and many people would say that she did so by becoming more male. Perhaps politics needs to be reconstructed and feminised so that there is more equal opportunity for women to succede on the basis of their own merits and talents. Women and men do things differently, but they can still be equal, its just that many things which we are used to and regard as gender nuetral are in fact constructed by men to cater to male ways of thinking and doing things.
    Feminising politics how exactly? The current system is a construct of the time when men were unfairly dominant its true, however, there is nothing intrinsicly wrong with the system.

    Men and Women have an equal right to vote from a selection of candidates for whom there is no gender discrimination. In the house of commons they engage in a debate which is presided over by a speaker who's job it is to ensure that debates don't become petty and full of taunting. Of course debates are intense but that is because of the use/misuse of the system.
    It is a myth that women are less mentaly capable then men both in sense of total brain power (not that you implied contary) and in terms of strength of character (which you seem to be implying.) I would be interested to see what kind of system you would propose and whether it would be any different in effect.
 
 
 
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