My name is not "Hey Baby"

Scroll to see replies

Hahaha i heard that show too

I normally call my female friends darling however i call my male friends darling to so there's no sexism

On a serious note i don't think men are gonna change,there bigger issues in Britain than sexism as much as id like my daughter to grow up in a world where'd she be treated equally i don't see it happening

Reply 181

neom

“Boys are told from a young age that whatever they do will be excused under the “boys will be boys” mantra, and that “boys will be boys” mentality leads to what I call the “boiling frog” problem of women’s sexual boundaries. I call it that because if you put a frog into a pot of boiling water, it will jump right out, but if you put a frog into a pot of room-temperature water and slowly heat it to a boil, the frog will acclimate as it heats and never jump out, eventually boiling to death. Similarly, when we learn as young girls to tolerate “low-level” boundary violations like the ones we often are forced to suffer in silence at school, at home and on the street – bra-snapping, boob-grabbing, ass pinching, catcalling, dick flashing “all in good fun” relentless violations that adults and authorities routinely ignore – it makes it harder for us to notice when even greater boundaries are being violated, eventually leading to the reality that many women who are raped just freeze and fall silent, because that’s what they’ve been taught to do over and over since day one. You tell me what’s more infantilizing: repeatedly letting boys (and grown men) off the hook for their behavior because “boys will be boys” and we can’t ever expect any differently, or creating a consent standard in which all partners take active responsibility for their partner’s safety, and which acknowledges the truly diseased sexual culture we’re soaking in every day.”

copied and pasted, but seeing the replies of the thread pretty much back it up

Reply 182

Mm_Minty

Original post by Hypocrism

I can't go out of my house leaving it unlocked, because I might be robbed.

Yes, if I do go out leaving it unlocked and I'm robbed, the fault lies on the robber, not me. But I am aware that the world is not ideal and so I can take steps to avoid being robbed.

This is parallel to the situation of provocative clothing. Yes, everyone should be able to wear exactly what they want without being attacked. Yes, the harasser is always to blame, not the victim. Yes, steps to raise awareness especially in men to avoiding sexual harassment are always good. But at the same time, we know that there are certain types of behaviour that increase risk of having something occur to you that we don't want to happen. In almost all other cases we would see it as stupid to not take steps to prevent it: we lock our houses, we alarm our cars, we put codes on our phones, we use CCTV. We shouldn't HAVE to, because people shouldn't commit robberies or attacks, but it would be seen as a bad choice not to protect yourself in this way. I don't understand why the provocative clothing situation is seen so differently, we don't have people walking down the street protesting against having to lock their houses.

This analogy pisses me off no end. If someone really wants to rob your house, they will do it, no matter if it's locked or not.

There are people out there who go looking for trouble and will harass people no matter what. Street harassment can occur no matter what the victim is wearing. I'll try and find the website for this, but there is a place where people can go to record events of street harassment, and a lot of the cases on there are from people just going about their daily business, on their way to work. Many specifically mention what they were wearing, which isn't provocative at all.

We can tell people to dress like XYZ all we want, but at the end of the day if you run into the wrong sort of people, you are going to be harassed no matter what you look like.

Reply 183

FiniteMr

Original post by Mm_Minty

This is a great point that I've never personally thought of but in my mind it only strengthens the analogy, because it shows another similarity between the two crimes. There ARE robbers who will break into a locked house. And even though we know there are people who will rob us whatever we try, do you know people who leave their doors open and unlocked? I'm pretty sure you don't know that many. And as I've said again, it becomes a balance between a person's desire to dress provocatively (perhaps not to BE provocative, but to feel confident, or just liking the clothes) and the amount of offense they take from sexual harassment. Benefit and risk. Someone perhaps more confident, who's dealt with a lot of it before, might ignore the advice to dress down, but if someone doesn't know how to deal with it, it is purely logical to take the steps to avoid sexual harassment, since you don't like it!

I don't see what is so counter-intuitive about (effectively) saying "If you don't like A, then you can do B to avoid A." Yes, you shouldn't need to to B, and it is not your fault if you experience A, but we know things aren't perfect and we act accordingly depending on personal risk of A, the amount you dislike A, and the amount you dislike doing B. The only situation I know where people deviate from this logic is this situation of clothing and sexual harassment/rape.

Reply 184

willbee

I understand the point of the Slutwalks, just because a girl's legs are on show doesn't mean there open for business. I get that. But I can't be bothered to listen to your link and I think you're title is pretentious. The way you dress DOES say something about you. Some girls do look wayyy sluttier on a night out than others.

If I dressed like a chav, I'd expect to be treated like one. In terms of the clothes we choose to wear, we can choose the image we project to other people. I think there is a problem with date rape and the like, but I think it's often because of miscommunication and misunderstanding in the sense that guys may feel like they have been lead on. However, if they continue to try to have sex with the girl then it is obvs rape.

I'm not saying rape is ever okay. But I can see why it happens so much in these sort of situations.

Reply 185

gravityisamyth

Original post by Jackso

To be fair, both genders get problems in the street. I'm a guy and when I used to go outside jogging people would shout stuff at me all the time. It is just a minority of people who are idiots.

Yeah that is true. I know there are guys who get unwanted comments too and I agree that there are double standards in that it's not seen as harassment when a woman says it to a guy.

At the same time, calling women 'sluts' who wear shorts and a top on a hot day to keep cool is inappropriate to say the least. It goes both ways.

Like people have said, men still comment regardless of what you're wearing.

Reply 186

Ocean_Rox

Original post by Jackso

That's quite alright.

Honestly, I don't think rape will ever be prevented like that, just like murder. As I said earlier, some people are just psychopaths who are very angry/violent and the only way to prevent that is just a better upbringing, really. But that applies to all of them. Pretty much everyone knows the difference between right and wrong but an abnormal few just don't have the restraint to hold back upon their urges, not just in regard to sex. So the next best solution is to prepare people of both genders against those types.

I find these new commercials about rape that you see everywhere to be absolutely ridiculous, people aren't that clueless and know what they're doing is wrong but choose to continue. It's not going to stop anyone from doing it if they are already. If you have any solution, feel free to explain.

Oh I will! :smile:

I find the adverts very good.
The most major reason for me, as it raises awareness. For the perpetrator - Especially the young, to ensure that if you don't get consent then it will be classed as rape. I too, do not understand how someone could be unaware of this fact but clearly they are out there...
And also for the survivor / victim. A young girl (e.g.) that it may have happened to, might not realise that it was rape if she blames herself. The advert highlights the fact that even if you're in a guys bedroom kissing, no matter how many ‘signals’ you may have consciously or unconsciously given him, if you don't want to have sex and he ends up forcing himself upon you, it is definitely rape, not sex. This is reassuring for all.

Also, it raises awareness for the general public. Rape is not something people usually like to discuss in general conversation. When people do bring it up, debates such as this one tend to break out (in my experience). So having an advert that brings this very serious problem into the consciousness of people who may never think about it otherwise, and perhaps spark thoughts into people such as myself on how we can go about tackling it, I think is a very good thing.

Forgive me for not quoting everyone else here on this, but I don't know how to quote more than one person at a time.
'Diggy’, you said "I don't think men are going to change and there are bigger issues in Britain than sexism."
That is an extremely defeatist attitude. We don't think men can change their behaviour so let’s not even try? We need to look at education right from the start of school for BOTH genders and teach boundaries and respect for each other including personal space and the punishment for those who violate the law.
The nearest thing we have at the moment is PSE classes. Now, not having taken one for quite a while, but from my own memory, we never covered these things and certainly anything at all, to a great 'in depth' extent. Plus these classes were only taught in my school from year 9 onwards. I do feel this needs to be addressed.

You also said "There are bigger issues in Britain than sexism". Well I'm afraid that is purely subjective. To a person, male or female who deals with all kinds of sexism on a daily basis, sexism will be a massive and important problem to them! The government should deal with ALL problems, not in an order of importance to some, just because they may not experience it.

Hypocrism.
You said there are "Purely logical to take the steps to avoid sexual harassment". You cannot avoid sexual harassment unless you never leave your house! Men and women get harassed whatever they wear. Can you explain to the person in a tracksuit what logical steps they could have taken to 'avoid' the harassment they received?

Willbe.
You said " We can choose the image we project to other people" which is fair enough, but that doesn't give anyone the excuse to act upon the projection they receive. You also said there is a problem with rape "because of miscommunication and misunderstanding in the sense that guys may feel like they have been lead on". Even if a guy does feel he has been lead on and unfairly given the 'right' signals does not excuse his possible next behaviour! Again, this is a problem that needs to be dealt with and taught about in school.

You also said "Some girls look 'sluttier' than others". Can you define 'slut' for me? What are the clear definitions between a woman in an 'above knee length' skirt and a 'slutty' skirt? Do you describe some girls as 'slutty' if they look ‘up for’ sex? (I specify up for sex I.E Consensual. What is a 'slut' to you? And why do you feel the need to give anyone this name?

Reply 187

Mm_Minty

Original post by Hypocrism

What's counter intuitive is that locking a door isn't like people telling you how to dress. A lot of doors lock automatically and it's easy enough to lock a door after you've finished using it.

But when you're told to dress like A, we're being denied a choice. Sure it's not the most important choice ever but to a lot of people, clothing is a means of personal expressions and personal identity. A lot of people like to dress up for the hell of it because it makes them feel good. Leaving a door unlocked is pretty neutral in that respect - no one really feels good about leaving a door unlocked, or feels like they can't do what they want because they have to lock doors.

But also, I think it's a good analogy in some respects - a lot of us could actually leave our doors unlocked for most of lives and have nothing untoward whereas people who lock their doors religiously can still be burgled. Also, in terms of the latter, although this may be true if we think about it, most would be very reluctant to leave their doors unlocked. Why? Because we see it as a direct link to burglary. I think a lot of people don't dress down as a precaution is because they know it doesn't really help all that much really - dress used more of an excuse rather than being an actual reason for harassment. The kind of people who sexually harass others are the kind of people who would be able to harass when the victim is wearing jogging bottoms (just like normal people don't go around checking whether other people's doors are locked or not - but those with intent to steal do)

Also, it's still perpetuating the idea that if we dress in a certain way, that we should expect harassment because of it, and learn to deal with it etc etc. It's making it seem as if we're inviting it upon ourselves, when really we just want to be able to dress how we want, not get harassed and then told that it's our own fault afterwards.