tpxvs
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I take it you dont get firsts, 2:1, 2:2, 3rds etc.. but rather pass/fail exams? Can someone please explain how this works.. is the outcome of every exam you take pass/fail with a percentage? What if you pass most but fail a few does it average out.. ah someone shed some light please
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lsaul95
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(Original post by tpxvs)
I take it you dont get firsts, 2:1, 2:2, 3rds etc.. but rather pass/fail exams? Can someone please explain how this works.. is the outcome of every exam you take pass/fail with a percentage? What if you pass most but fail a few does it average out.. ah someone shed some light please
Here you are http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=853260
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purplefrog
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That is correct. However for medical schools which let you intercalate, usually your pre-clinical years count towards your BSc classification in a weighted manner (at UCL it is 1:1:6 for years 1,2,3 respectively with year 3 being the BSc year itself).

Other than that, it is generally pass/fail with the average pass mark around 50% or so I believe. Most medical schools have pass/merit/honours (or distinction) for their final exams (as in the last set of exams you sit before graduating). You will be given a quartile rank as well, though this may soon change to deciles.

In terms of passing all but failing one etc., I know UCL doesn't allow this. If you fail one paper, you have to resit and re pass all of them again. I know with other medical schools they make you resit the one you failed only.
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M1011
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Not entirely sure but I imagine it goes from ' It's ALIVE! :eek: ' to ' aww crap :coma: '

Just a guess.
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tpxvs
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what is the pass mark generally?
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purplefrog
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(Original post by tpxvs)
what is the pass mark generally?
most medical schools set it towards 50% whereas most other degrees are 40%
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Kinkerz
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OP, it varies amongst schools quite considerably. Some give out school-like grades (i.e., A, B, C, D), some give out more general grades (i.e., satisfactory, borderline, unsatisfactory), etc.

(Original post by purplefrog)
That is correct. However for medical schools which let you intercalate, usually your pre-clinical years count towards your BSc classification in a weighted manner (at UCL it is 1:1:6 for years 1,2,3 respectively with year 3 being the BSc year itself).
I always thought that was a fairly UCL-specific thing, since they introduced the whole iBSc-integrated-into-the-course philosophy. Personally, I like it.
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purplefrog
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(Original post by Kinkerz)
OP, it varies amongst schools quite considerably. Some give out school-like grades (i.e., A, B, C, D), some give out more general grades (i.e., satisfactory, borderline, unsatisfactory), etc.


I always thought that was a fairly UCL-specific thing, since they introduced the whole iBSc-integrated-into-the-course philosophy. Personally, I like it.
They also adopt pre-clinical weighting/make it count for iBSc at Ox/Cam/Imp/KCL afaik? Though I happily stand to be corrected
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Kinkerz
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(Original post by purplefrog)
They also adopt pre-clinical weighting/make it count for iBSc at Ox/Cam/Imp/KCL afaik? Though I happily stand to be corrected
You could be right. Certainly with Ox./Cam. I would be surprised if KCL did that though.
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John Locke
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the oxford BA is 100% based on 3rd year stuff, no preclinical weighting.

i still don't understand why anywhere has a 50% pass rate. as far as preclinical goes and assuming no negative marking either the exams are too hard or the material has been inappropriately gauged. Surely a less detailed but more comprehensive understanding of material (judged by a higher %) is more desirable? although am i missing something?
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Kinkerz
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(Original post by John Locke)
the oxford BA is 100% based on 3rd year stuff, no preclinical weighting.

i still don't understand why anywhere has a 50% pass rate. as far as preclinical goes and assuming no negative marking either the exams are too hard or the material has been inappropriately gauged. Surely a less detailed but more comprehensive understanding of material (judged by a higher %) is more desirable? although am i missing something?
I don't think you're missing anything.
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polldoll
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At St Andrews we are doing a BSc Hons, so after 3 years we will get a degree classification. (1st, 2:1, 2:2, 3rd)
All our exams at the moment have a percentage, but also a grade point 1-20. 17-20 = 1st 14-16 = 2:1, 11-14 = 2.2. We need a grade 11 at end of 1st year to proceed to 2nd year. Less than 7 is a fail, and 7-10 are technically still passes, just not good enough.

Pass marks for our exams vary from 53&-58%, and are worked out per exam.
Its all very complicated!!
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Helenia
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(Original post by John Locke)
the oxford BA is 100% based on 3rd year stuff, no preclinical weighting.

i still don't understand why anywhere has a 50% pass rate. as far as preclinical goes and assuming no negative marking either the exams are too hard or the material has been inappropriately gauged. Surely a less detailed but more comprehensive understanding of material (judged by a higher %) is more desirable? although am i missing something?
I would say so. Cambridge's pass marks are variable depending on subject and also move slightly each year in some complex system based on how the whole cohort performs - some questions are actually discounted if it seems that the answer wasn't clear (i.e. good candidates are not consistently answering it "correctly"). In general, our pass marks for 2nd MB exams are around the 60% mark even in the negatively marked ones, sometimes higher (anatomy).
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Wangers
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(Original post by John Locke)
the oxford BA is 100% based on 3rd year stuff, no preclinical weighting.

i still don't understand why anywhere has a 50% pass rate. as far as preclinical goes and assuming no negative marking either the exams are too hard or the material has been inappropriately gauged. Surely a less detailed but more comprehensive understanding of material (judged by a higher %) is more desirable? although am i missing something?

When I sat preclinical papers it was still cohort marked, I think. This is fairly new. Although just because they put a pass mark of 50% - because the papers are synoptic SBA, that dosn't equate to random guess, win by default. There was some negative marking, but only within questions - so it could set you back potentially to 0 for that question, but not torpedo the whole paper.

Again when I sat papers, we also had a essay paper - short answers + a few 20 markers. I suspect that marking 300 odd sets of essay papers is a burden though.
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theatrical
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(Original post by purplefrog)
most medical schools set it towards 50% whereas most other degrees are 40%
Most medical schools don't have set pass marks for written/MCQ papers, the majority use cohort marking. The exception is with clinical OSCEs - at Manchester the pass mark for these is always 57% (due to the scale our stations are marked on).
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purplefrog
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(Original post by theatrical)
Most medical schools don't have set pass marks for written/MCQ papers, the majority use cohort marking. The exception is with clinical OSCEs - at Manchester the pass mark for these is always 57% (due to the scale our stations are marked on).
Ah right, ours at UCL have a set pass mark beforehand that varies with each paper. The medical school uses the Angoff method to set the pass mark that way it ensures everybody can pass (or equally everybody could fail) and its not relative to the yeargroup.
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John Locke
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(Original post by Helenia)
I would say so. Cambridge's pass marks are variable depending on subject and also move slightly each year in some complex system based on how the whole cohort performs - some questions are actually discounted if it seems that the answer wasn't clear (i.e. good candidates are not consistently answering it "correctly"). In general, our pass marks for 2nd MB exams are around the 60% mark even in the negatively marked ones, sometimes higher (anatomy).
(Original post by Wangers)
When I sat preclinical papers it was still cohort marked, I think. This is fairly new. Although just because they put a pass mark of 50% - because the papers are synoptic SBA, that dosn't equate to random guess, win by default. There was some negative marking, but only within questions - so it could set you back potentially to 0 for that question, but not torpedo the whole paper.

Again when I sat papers, we also had a essay paper - short answers + a few 20 markers. I suspect that marking 300 odd sets of essay papers is a burden though.
to clarify i recognise that almost nowhere sets a pass mark without altering it to take into account a particular cohorts performance (for example here it in the tests of core knowledge it is ~75% of the average score of the top 5%, plus individual questions are statistically analysed and duff ones removed from consideration).

the thing im saying is only having to answer ~half of the paper correctly seems like a fairly low percentage and suggests that someone who just scrapes ~half (altered to cohort), and we presume that the test gives a representative coverage of their knowledge of the intended learning outcomes, that they either don't actually know very much or that the test is too difficult for it's intended audience. In reality you would expect a preclinical student to recall more that ~1/2 of what they are taught as much of it lays the ground for future study so why aren't tests angled for a higher hit rate? Are the exams actually too hard? are we teaching people more than is reasonable? there is clearly a disproportionate knowledge in those near to the borderline of such a paper (against assuming representative, i recognise this itself is a questionable).
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Kinkerz
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Poor, ambiguous question writing plays its part.
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Wangers
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(Original post by John Locke)
to clarify i recognise that almost nowhere sets a pass mark without altering it to take into account a particular cohorts performance (for example here it in the tests of core knowledge it is ~75% of the average score of the top 5%, plus individual questions are statistically analysed and duff ones removed from consideration).

the thing im saying is only having to answer ~half of the paper correctly seems like a fairly low percentage and suggests that someone who just scrapes ~half (altered to cohort), and we presume that the test gives a representative coverage of their knowledge of the intended learning outcomes, that they either don't actually know very much or that the test is too difficult for it's intended audience. In reality you would expect a preclinical student to recall more that ~1/2 of what they are taught as much of it lays the ground for future study so why aren't tests angled for a higher hit rate? Are the exams actually too hard? are we teaching people more than is reasonable? there is clearly a disproportionate knowledge in those near to the borderline of such a paper (against assuming representative, i recognise this itself is a questionable).
You can recall more than 50%, it's just that an exam may not test knowledge in that way. If you get 50% on a SBA synoptic for example does not mean that you only learn half the course. They tend to pitch questions at an entry level where you need to know a fair bit to make a play.

Pt has x,y,z.

Daignosis - u,v,x.y.z

You need to actually know a fair bit to make a stab at that.

It's actually fairly difficult to establish what you need and don't need to know, which in some ways is a good thing.
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document35
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So when graduate your mbbs degree isn't ranked like 1st, 2.1, 2.2 etc.?
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