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Reply 80
Original post by lancelot
No iwas talking about the principle of age of consent in islam as clarified for example by high ranking clerics. If it is clarified that in islam, men are allowed to have sex with girls as young as 10, then what you describe as rape of children, would be viewed as something "justfied" by these convited men in their own twisted thinking - this was suggested by investigators


So...you're running your mouth without even knowing a dime about the subject or religion past hearsay? Well done you have just lost 10 internets
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 81
Original post by DarkTitan
So...you're running your mouth without even knowing a dime about the subject or religion past hearsay? Well done you have just lost 10 internets


you dont make any sense
Reply 82
Original post by lancelot
you dont make any sense


Means your a dimwit
Reply 83
The smar place it says thy ibrahim giwa is Muslim.. It doesn't, the person who made this thread assumes he is Muslim cus of the name but anyone who rapes I clearly not muslim. The person who put that link is just doing the same: assuming (but tbh they are atheist)
Reply 84
Original post by tazarooni89
People who speak Arabic don't say "Abraham", they say "Ibrahim", even if they are Jewish or Christian. Even atheists in those countries all their children "Ibrahim", in the same way that you get atheists here called Adam, John, Peter, Thomas, Michael etc. all names popularised by religion.




No they dont, if an arab is christian, he isnt given the name of a muslim prophet, coptic chritians in egypt for example can be called phillip,. The lad in this crime is clearly of some african descent, not arab, so Ibrahim is not a native african name, it is one based on islam
it doesn't, but why mentioned "muslim" rape gang when pakistani's get caught?
Original post by lancelot
You clearly are being very narrow minded in claiming all media reporting relates to 'asians or middle easterns' - if the media reports a case involving a muslim, it isnt because of their race- you may not be aware that vast majority of people that have heritage from asia in the world are actually not muslim.

This guy has been given a muslim name ( ie not just asian/middle eastern) based on a prophet called ibrahim which is what muslims beleive he was called - hence why it is beleived this person was raised in a muslim upbringing. Therefore it bares similarity to the , what, 20 or so other muslim males that have recently been convicted of raping underage females in the last few months.


EVER said that all media reports relate to asians. I said that the media are quick to report anything they do bad, which isn't the same. If you look at the wording of my last sentence, it clearly shows that I'm agreeing with you that not everyone that is Asian/Middle eastern is Muslim!

Fair dos, but it's also possible that he converted to another religion/ atheism even if his family are muslims.
Original post by lancelot
not really about deporting is it, or country of origin- the opposite acutally, mainly becuase it was the trend during the conviction of pakistanis in underage sex cases being blamed for their nationality origin by muslims on threads in TSR. But this to me seemed basic scapegoating - particualrly as i pointed out, that it has been widely shown accross different sects of islam, that muslim men beelive the age of conent for a girl is something around 9 or 10 years old.


It wasn't directly aimed at you, and my point was more one of practicality. Let's assume that it is an inherent characteristic in Muslims and/or Pakistanis that is provable - if you aren't going to advocate anti-Pakistani and anti-Muslim policies then what is the point in establishing that in the first place? Just to encourage nationalists, neo-nazis etc. to form vigilante groups to target Pakistanis and Muslims?

Basically, no matter what statistics people may distort to show otherwise, the overwhelming majority of Muslims and Pakistanis in this country do not rape children, nor do they agree with it. Most sensible people would not advocate policies that target people based on race or nationality, so from my perspective, identifying that it's done disproportionately by certain groups of people achieves nothing.

Again, not aimed at you, but I'm also getting fed up with everyone claiming they aren't allowed to talk about race because of "Political Correctness" (a phrase that makes me want to instantly dismiss any argument given by the person who says it!). I hear that claim constantly, but who exactly is supposedly enforcing this so called embargo on discussion? The government says you should talk about it, the opposition says you should talk about it, the public says you should talk about - if you want to talk about it that much then JUST TALK ABOUT IT instead of pretending you are somehow being prevented from doing so! The only explanation I can come up with is that they actually are being racist - otherwise who exactly are these mythical people stopping them?
Original post by Algorithm69
I cannot believe that the country I live in gives child rapists only five years in prison. The sooner I emigrate out of this ****hole of a country the better.


Do note this guy was 13 when he raped her.. ;not saying I agree, obviously I don't, but its NOT as worse than a older man raping a 11 year old (its still bad though)..
Original post by lancelot
No they dont, if an arab is christian, he isnt given the name of a muslim prophet, coptic chritians in egypt for example can be called phillip,. The lad in this crime is clearly of some african descent, not arab, so Ibrahim is not a native african name, it is one based on islam


Ibrahim is not the name of a "Muslim" Prophet, it is the Arabic language version of the name of a Jewish, Christan and Islamic Prophet. Just like how Peter, Pierre and Pedro are all the same name, in different languages.

Plenty of African countries have large numbers of Arabic speakers, or languages derived from Arabic. Christans who speak Arabic don't say "Abraham", just as Spanish Christans don't say "Peter".

Besides, he might not even be religious at all. Have you heard of Christopher Hitchens? He must be Christian, right? His name even has the word "Christ" in it for crying out loud!
Original post by callum9999


Basically, no matter what statistics people may distort to show otherwise, the overwhelming majority of Muslims and Pakistanis in this country do not rape children, nor do they agree with it.



Just to address your above point - that is true, however, muslims are proportionatly highly over- represented in terms of the criminal convictions organised grooming children for sex ( which is what is largely being reported in the last 18 months or so) Those havent been distorted, they are being reported as they are.
Islam oringated from saudi arabia - a country where the islamic tradition ofold men having sex with pre-pubescent girls was commonly practiced ( presumabley you are aware of Mohammeds own marriage to Aisha)
Even today, saudi doesnt have an 'official' age of consent protected by law - For instance, in 2008 a Saudi court refused to annul a marriage between an 8 year old girl and a 58 year old man.

SO if islamic principles allows the idea to have sex with a minor, then, maybe not all of them will form rape gangs, but many will still think about to the modern civilised world is abhorent
Original post by tazarooni89
That's like saying "That guy's name is John, safe for me to assume he was brought up a Christian".
Do you think Muslims are the only people who name their children "Ibrahim"?

"Ibrahim" is the name of a Prophet believed in by Christians, Jews and Muslims.


Abraham*
Original post by waqarasim
That's exactly what I'm saying, I'm giving the stats in reply to Lancelot!! Because he says it's a Muslim thing or a Pakistani thing to rape so I said it to show him he was wrong. I agree these rapist are not Muslim an it has nothing to do with religion or race


Its culture right? Then tell me, where did that culture generate from?
Original post by waqarasim
Fistly who gave them this right, this is happening no where on this planet, maybe in your messed up head. There is no such law and Islamic laws are in the Quran, unchanged for 1400 years. You need to stop making stuff up bro. You may love to have sex with a 10 year old but to every Muslim and decent person it is a sick thought. There is no such law you're just ignorant


I heard that there is no country in the world that follows the Quran 100% anyway. And if you're surprised by that, it shows your naviety
Original post by Ice Constricter
Abraham*


Arabic speaking Christians and Jews say "Ibrahim".
Reply 95
Original post by lancelot
typically non-muslim parents dont name their kids muslims names. If they are non religious they can give them random names like 'troy or beyonce'
Practicing Muslim parents ALWAYS give their kids muslims names.
So the eivdnece allows us to make the assumption- which was your original question. You dont have to beleive that, but it does look like you are clutching at straws.
Why would you try and dispute this kid wasnt muslim but not the paksitani rapists with muslims names ?


You ignorant person. They are not "muslim" names. They are actually arabic names. I go to university and i know so many people with arabic names but they are actually christian.
You make pathetic points about rape and have no clue about anything.
Gangs and rapes. What has that got to with muslims and pakistanis? Everytime somebody commits a crime, do we have to start a debate about the religion he follows? What has that got to with anything?
So many non -muslims in the UK itself carry out rape, murder and the rest of it. Do the muslim community start the whole "he was a Christian" debate? or a jew or whatever. No they dont.
The main thing is, they carried out a disgusting act for which they need to be punished. Simple.
Original post by Indo-Chinese Food
Just to address your above point - that is true, however, muslims are proportionatly highly over- represented in terms of the criminal convictions organised grooming children for sex ( which is what is largely being reported in the last 18 months or so) Those havent been distorted, they are being reported as they are.
Islam oringated from saudi arabia - a country where the islamic tradition ofold men having sex with pre-pubescent girls was commonly practiced ( presumabley you are aware of Mohammeds own marriage to Aisha)
Even today, saudi doesnt have an 'official' age of consent protected by law - For instance, in 2008 a Saudi court refused to annul a marriage between an 8 year old girl and a 58 year old man.

SO if islamic principles allows the idea to have sex with a minor, then, maybe not all of them will form rape gangs, but many will still think about to the modern civilised world is abhorent


As I said in my post, that is utterly irrelevant unless you wish to punish ALL Muslims. That's like establishing that people called Bob are overrepresented in grooming children - great, now what exactly am I meant to do with that information?
Original post by tazarooni89
Arabic speaking Christians and Jews say "Ibrahim".


Do they also spell it that way or is it just the pronounciation? All I'm saying is that I don't remember seeing a 'Ibrahim' anywhere in the Bible.
Original post by Ice Constricter
Do they also spell it that way or is it just the pronounciation? All I'm saying is that I don't remember seeing a 'Ibrahim' anywhere in the Bible.


I'm assuming that's because you've read the Bible in English?
They spell it in Arabic letters, and pronounce it "Ibrahim". People who speak different languages render the same names differently (e.g. Peter in English, Pedro in Spanish), regardless of which religion they belong to.

If you read the Qur'an in English, you'll also see many translations which write "Abraham" instead of Ibrahim.
Reply 99
Original post by Ice Constricter
Its culture right? Then tell me, where did that culture generate from?


So you are saying it is Pakistani culture to rape?!? Wow, what about the thousands of rapes that happen each year by White British people??
Like I said, it has nothing to do with race or religion or culture

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