Socialism vs Libertarianism The great debate. Watch

the mezzil
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#41
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#41
(Original post by Cannotbelieveit)
Libertarianism is the only way forward in today's world. The most successful world economies have been achieved through economic freedom, entrepreneurship, and a positive work ethic.

Socialism is taking money off hard working people, and giving it to underachievers. Every country that has tried to be socialist has crumbled.
Try telling that China!
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Muscovite
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#42
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#42
(Original post by GreenLantern1)
That's right don't question this guy above me ^^^
My motto: "Question everything..."
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Muscovite
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#43
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(Original post by Раскольников)
How?
I am tired and lazy so I cut and paste the answer I replied to 'blueray' (the OP) with:
Libertarian socialists retain respect for private property whilst converting private capital to common goods. In fact, socialism is in itself largely libertarian - marxism is a stateless ideology - the use of worker's councils and cooperatives which negate the need for any government at all - never mind the limited government of libertarianism - is all textbook stuff. in fact, I could easily pull a source from even wikipedia and show you.
Look in the very first line of this article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism
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pshewitt1
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#44
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#44
(Original post by blueray)
Libertarianism - (longer as less people know about it)

Libertarians believe that each person owns his own life and property, and has the right to make his own choices as to how he lives his life – as long as he simply respects the same right of others to do the same.
Another way of saying this is that libertarians believe you should be free to do as you choose with your own life and property, as long as you don't harm the person and property of others.
Libertarianism is thus the combination of liberty (the freedom to live your life in any peaceful way you choose), responsibility (the prohibition against the use of force against others, except in defense), and tolerance (honoring and respecting the peaceful choices of others).

Socialism - ( I'm sure most know what it is about, so its shorter)
A political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole


My questions to you socliasts and libertarians are the following;

1)Which is the better system and why?
(This includes the following, economic, social and environmental factors)

2)Why do you support this system?

3)And why is the other wrong/ worse than yours?

Edit, why have you negged me for starting a great and informative debate? I am not taking sides here, I am merely seeing which one is better. This is evident through all my posts.
are you kidding me...It's authoritarian vs libertarian and left vs right..ones to do with social the other is economic...flawed debate
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pshewitt1
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#45
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#45
(Original post by the mezzil)
Try telling that China!
china isn't exactly communist is it... cheap labour being taken advantage of for hufe profits..sounds capitalist to me
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User570431
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#46
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#46
(Original post by pshewitt1)
are you kidding me...It's authoritarian vs libertarian and left vs right..ones to do with social the other is economic...flawed debate
Debates aren't fun if people agree with each other all the time. People don't develop their minds as much in a weak debate.
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Cannotbelieveit
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#47
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#47
(Original post by the mezzil)
Try telling that China!
The Chinese are pretty much closet capitalists
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pshewitt1
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#48
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#48
(Original post by blueray)
Debates aren't fun if people agree with each other all the time. People don't develop their minds as much in a weak debate.
what are you on about? http://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2 just look at this
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User570431
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#49
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#49
(Original post by pshewitt1)
what are you on about? http://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2 just look at this
I was replying to your quote.
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the mezzil
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#50
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#50
(Original post by pshewitt1)
china isn't exactly communist is it... cheap labour being taken advantage of for hufe profits..sounds capitalist to me
It is still a communist country, not exactly the heir of the USSR, with a lot of captalist ideas in place but never the less it is still communist.
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the mezzil
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#51
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#51
(Original post by Cannotbelieveit)
The Chinese are pretty much closet capitalists
see above
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Раскольников
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#52
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#52
(Original post by Muscovite)
I am tired and lazy so I cut and paste the answer I replied to 'blueray' (the OP) with:
Libertarian socialists retain respect for private property whilst converting private capital to common goods. In fact, socialism is in itself largely libertarian - marxism is a stateless ideology - the use of worker's councils and cooperatives which negate the need for any government at all - never mind the limited government of libertarianism - is all textbook stuff. in fact, I could easily pull a source from even wikipedia and show you.
Look in the very first line of this article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

Where do we drawn the line between private property and common goods? I'm guessing natural resources etc will be common goods.

While worker's councils and cooperatives negate the need for government with regards to production, how is the aim of what to produce and the process for consumption determined? Would we use wages and prices for this? And would it be competitive as a system, so different cooperatives are trying to compete with each other in providing the best products at the lowest cost (and therefore I guess having to keep labour costs down for themselves)?
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lukewarm3
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#53
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#53
(Original post by Cannotbelieveit)
The Chinese are pretty much closet capitalists
Can you explain why Cuba has a better education and health system than USA? (and most other capitalist countries)
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pshewitt1
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#54
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#54
(Original post by blueray)
I was replying to your quote.
you 'reply' didn't make any sense, I said your debate is flawed because you are comparing two things which aren't really comparable...a better debate is fascism vs anarchism or communism vs neo liberalism
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Раскольников
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#55
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#55
(Original post by the mezzil)
It is still a communist country, not exactly the heir of the USSR, with a lot of captalist ideas in place but never the less it is still communist.
What makes it communist exactly (other than the party in charge claiming to be communists)?
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the mezzil
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#56
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(Original post by Раскольников)
What makes it communist exactly (other than the party in charge claiming to be communists)?
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a..._is_china.html

As i said it isn't exactly what Karl Marx had intended, but it is still socialist, but a very weak one at that!
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Ocassus
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#57
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#57
K
(Original post by blueray)
This is true. Any one wish to comment?
Kindly do all of us a favour and stop trying to umpire a debate with your meaningless sperg. Believe it or not, we are capable of interpreting and arguing by ourselves.
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Ocassus
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#58
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#58
(Original post by the mezzil)
It is still a communist country, not exactly the heir of the USSR, with a lot of captalist ideas in place but never the less it is still communist.
No that's moronic. All socialist philosophy is defined by one key and core tenet, it is vital to the idea of a communistic society. The common ownership of the means of production.

Does that exist in china? No, therefore it is not communist. QED
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Раскольников
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#59
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#59
(Original post by the mezzil)
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a..._is_china.html

As i said it isn't exactly what Karl Marx had intended, but it is still socialist, but a very weak one at that!
I guess the best description is that it is politically it is authoritarian and economically it is capitalist but with strong state involvement (Keynesian I suppose).

It doesn't seem to be that socialist really, for example nearly all of the capitalistic countries making up the 'western' world (western Europe etc) seem to spend higher proportions of their GDP (as in government spending).
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the mezzil
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#60
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#60
(Original post by Ocassus)
No that's moronic. All socialist philosophy is defined by one key and core tenet, it is vital to the idea of a communistic society. The common ownership of the means of production.

Does that exist in china? No, therefore it is not communist. QED
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a..._is_china.html

Maybe, then again maybe not..

Anyway different communists had different ways of in interpreting of what socialism really is and how it should be achieved, Karl Marxs and Stalin for example, Bukharin and Trotsky also..
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