Hi guys, I came across this question and just need a little push I think..
If we have a circle inside a square so that the sides of the square lie tangent to the circle, find the rate of change of the perimeter of the square if the rate of change of the circumference of the circle is 6ms^1.
I've tried to write the circumference as 2pi*r
so d/dt (2pi*r) = 6 which obviously isn't right, maybe i'm just not thinking straight..any ideas??
Rate of change of circle inside a square (difficult)
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 13052012 00:03

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 13052012 00:11
(Original post by Extricated)
Hi guys, I came across this question and just need a little push I think..
If we have a circle inside a square so that the sides of the square lie tangent to the circle, find the rate of change of the perimeter of the square if the rate of change of the circumference of the circle is 6ms^1.
I've tried to write the circumference as 2pi*r
so d/dt (2pi*r) = 6 which obviously isn't right, maybe i'm just not thinking straight..any ideas??
d/dt(r)=6/(2pi)
The perimeter of the square is 4r 
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 13052012 00:19
You know it helps to state what topic it is.
You should use connected rates of change.
Label the length of the sides of the square x and the rest should be pretty obvious.
ztibor you didn't do anything lol.
So you have the circumference of the circle
6ms^1 = dC/dt (C= circumference)
Therefore dP/dt = dP/dC *dC/dt
P = Perimeter of square.Last edited by JonathanM; 13052012 at 00:29. 
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 13052012 00:21
(Original post by JonathanM)
You know it helps to state what topic it is.
You should use connected rates of change.
Label the length of the sides of the square x and the rest should be pretty obvious.
ztibor you didn't do anything lol.
(Except he should've wrote that the perimeter of the square is 8r, I believe). 
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 13052012 00:24
(Original post by hassi94)
Ztibor has essentially solved the problem so I don't know what you're talking about.
(Except he should've wrote that the perimeter of the square is 8r, I believe).
to "The perimeter of the square is 4r". 
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 13052012 00:26
(Original post by JonathanM)
How has he solved it? I can't see how he got from "d/dt(r)=6/(2pi)
to "The perimeter of the square is 4r".Last edited by Intriguing Alias; 13052012 at 00:29. 
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 13052012 00:31
(Original post by hassi94)
He didn't get from one to the other. He got to the first bit, then gave the second bit of information (which okay was wrong but it's easy to make mistakes) and then left the OP to do the simple last bit.
dC/dt = 6
Perimeter = 4x
Circumference = root(2)*pi*x
P = 4(C/pi*root(2))
dP/dC = 4/(pi*root(2))
dP/dt = 24/pi*root(2)Last edited by JonathanM; 13052012 at 00:45. 
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 13052012 00:39
(Original post by JonathanM)
I don't think the OP understands the question. I understand what the hungarian guy meant now it's just the fact I mistook what he said. And what he said has no relevance to how you solve it anyway. Only the 4r bit.
If d/dt (2pi r) = 6 then d/dt (r) = 6/2pi = 3/pi
And you can logically work out that the square must be of side 2r and so the perimeter is 8r.
Then we can write d/dt(8r) = 24/pi
Now if there's something wrong there, tell me. Otherwise stop commenting that something is wrong or irrelevant just because you don't understand how it's relevant.Post rating:1 
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 13052012 00:45
(Original post by JonathanM)
I don't think the OP understands the question. I understand what the hungarian guy meant now it's just the fact I mistook what he said. And what he said has no relevance to how you solve it anyway. Only the 4r bit. Top tip for him, a length of a side of a square isn't the radius.
dC/dt = 6
Perimeter = 4x
Circumference = root(2)*pi*x
P = 4(C/pi*root(2))
dP/dC = 4/(pi*root(2))
dP/dt = 24/pi*root(2) 
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 13052012 00:46
You're answer is wrong the r for the circle is not the same as the r (length of a side) for a square.
Using chain rule I got dP/dt = 24/pi*root(2) 
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 13052012 00:47
(Original post by hassi94)
Where in the world has root(2) come from?
(Original post by JonathanM)
I don't think the OP understands the question. I understand what the hungarian guy meant now it's just the fact I mistook what he said. And what he said has no relevance to how you solve it anyway. Only the 4r bit. Top tip for him, a length of a side of a square isn't the radius.
dC/dt = 6
Perimeter = 4x
Circumference = root(2)*pi*x
P = 4(C/pi*root(2))
dP/dC = 4/(pi*root(2))
dP/dt = 24/pi*root(2)
lol, it's actually ironic that the only bit that ztibor got wrong (i.e the 4r bit) is what you're claiming is the only bit he's got rightLast edited by Extricated; 13052012 at 00:48. 
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 13052012 00:48
(Original post by JonathanM)
You're answer is wrong the r for the circle is not the same as the r (length of a side) for a square. 
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 13052012 00:49
(Original post by Extricated)
lol, it's actually ironic that the only bit that ztibor got wrong (i.e the 4r bit) is what you're claiming is the only bit he's got right 
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 13052012 00:49
(Original post by JonathanM)
Top tip for him, a length of a side of a square isn't the radius.
dC/dt = 6
Perimeter = 4x
Circumference = root(2)*pi*x
P = 4(C/pi*root(2))
dP/dC = 4/(pi*root(2))
dP/dt = 24/pi*root(2)Post rating:1 
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 13052012 00:50
(Original post by JonathanM)
Well by that I meant if he meant r as a length of the side of the square, not the radius of the circle. 
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 13052012 00:52
(Original post by JonathanM)
You're answer is wrong the r for the circle is not the same as the r (length of a side) for a square.
Using chain rule I got dP/dt = 24/pi*root(2)
Each side is the diameter of the circle and since circumference = pi*diameter then C = pi*x with no root(2) 
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 13052012 00:52
(Original post by F1Addict)
Yeah it isn't r. Its 2r. In words, the length of a side of a square is 2 times the radius of the circle within the square.
Urm what?

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 13052012 00:53
(Original post by JonathanM)
Well by that I meant if he meant r as a length of the side of the square, not the radius of the circle.

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 13052012 00:53
(Original post by Ilyas)
...
Sorry for posting it here, but i saw that you had blocked visitor messages. 
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 13052012 00:54
Original Post:
"we have a circle inside a square so that the sides of the square lie tangent to the circle"
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Updated: May 13, 2012
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