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Can you name any left-wing Conservative polices?

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Reply 60
Original post by Booshie
Central-right is not the opposite of liberal!!

If that's what you're suggesting.

Left-wingers can be authoritarian and right-wingers can be liberal.

For example, I would say our right-wing Tory party has been far more liberal recently than our 'left-wing' (less right-wing anyway) Labour party, who tried to push through 90 day detention, compulsory ID cards and DNA databases of innocent people.


There is no left and right wing, freedom is the one measure that matters. There is only authoritarian and libertarian.

Almost every government leans towards authoritarian in this day and age. Freedom means nothing to the state when its core function is to limit it.
Reply 61
Original post by Keckers
There is no left and right wing, freedom is the one measure that matters. There is only authoritarian and libertarian.

Almost every government leans towards authoritarian in this day and age. Freedom means nothing to the state when its core function is to limit it.


Freedom? What does that mean?
Reply 62
Original post by Kibalchich
Freedom? What does that mean?


The freedom to not be forcibly prevented from committing an act which does not infringe on the free acts of others.
Reply 63
Original post by Keckers
The freedom to not be forcibly prevented from committing an act which does not infringe on the free acts of others.


That's capitalism out then.
Reply 64
Original post by Kibalchich
That's capitalism out then.


Yeah good one. Don't bother posting your marxist rhetoric in here. I'm bored of it and it frankly is unhelpful.
Reply 65
Original post by Keckers
Yeah good one. Don't bother posting your marxist rhetoric in here. I'm bored of it and it frankly is unhelpful.


Oh dear. :biggrin: I rattled you I see. :biggrin:

You know your definition of freedom leads to work or starve, "poverty is not unfreedom". You know you can't defend this.
Reply 66
Original post by Kibalchich
Oh dear. :biggrin: I rattled you I see. :biggrin:

You know your definition of freedom leads to work or starve, "poverty is not unfreedom". You know you can't defend this.


Thanks for telling me what my political ideals are. I had no idea I was completely against all forms of welfare. Sorry also for judging a man based on ability to contribute and not on his needs.
Reply 67
Original post by Keckers
There is no left and right wing, freedom is the one measure that matters. There is only authoritarian and libertarian.

Almost every government leans towards authoritarian in this day and age. Freedom means nothing to the state when its core function is to limit it.


You can't lump social freedom and economic freedom under the same banner. Supporting general 'freedom' is a reductionist blanket policy.
Reply 68
Original post by Booshie
You can't lump social freedom and economic freedom under the same banner. Supporting general 'freedom' is a reductionist blanket policy.


Economic freedom leads to social freedom.
Original post by Steevee
Being liberal is not the same as being left wing. Refer to the political compass, I know it's confusing :tongue:

Generally speaking 'Left-Wing' policies tend to be interpreted as economic policies, whereas 'Right-Wing' policies are radical social policies. This, I think, arises because all parties are economically a ways to the right, and socially aways toward Libertarian, although obviously they are more centre than extreme.

So, I think there are plenty of liberal Tory policies, though no radical progressive legislation, which I don't see as a problem.


I think this is a misguiding analysis.

Let's remember where left-wing and right-wing actually come from. It originates from the French Revolution in which the revolutions would sit on the left of the house "the left" and the monarchists who wish to the preserve the status quo on the right "the right".

Left wing policies, as you put it, focusing on economic policies is because left-wing politics in history has been synonymous with populist, socialist doctrines that challenge and radicalize the status quo. This is because the vehicle of invoking such radical change was in the context of the capitalist system; the working class rhetoric. This does not preclude left-wing social policies to not be radical either - infact, I'd argue left-wing social policies are more radical as there are far more basis for assumption than right-wing social policies.

So, taking into account "left-wing" politics is radical by default, it would be impossible to find conservative "left-wing" policies; conservatism is to conserve the status quo and the furthest and most radical conservatism goes is pragmatism.

Let us also remember that left-wing and right-wing politics in the UK on the centre stage seldom come to ahead as economic liberty, monetarism and equality of opportunity without equality of outcome are the accepted and protected principles in modern day politics. "Left-wing" and "right-wing" politics are near redundant, bar your splinter individuals.
Reply 70
Original post by quattro94
you are missing the point. They haven't removed the NHS, real terms NHS spending has actually increased.


But down in real terms. http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/nhs-spending-has-been-cut-tories-forced-to-admit-8395976.html Either way its not recieving the funding it requires.


Original post by quattro94
The cuts are to make the system work for the more deserving case example- my dad can barely walk 100 yards. Next door there is a guy with a blue badge in his car that spends most of his time messing with said car and spending his job seekers. Are you seriously going to tell me that we should pay for him to do that, and deny people like my dad? Funding is NOT infinite.


Is your dad being denied? Wouldn't surprise me with the way Atos are treating the disabled. Is your dad more deserving than this guy?


Original post by quattro94
The NHS ought to provide universal care first before it should even be considered to be doing its job and that at the moment is certainly not the case.


The NHS is one of if not the most efficient in the world. No amount of juggling targets and fiddling around with less efficient, more expensive private health care providers is going to fix the problems with the NHS. We either do away with universal free at the point of use care or we give it the funding it requires.
Reply 71
Original post by Keckers
Thanks for telling me what my political ideals are. I had no idea I was completely against all forms of welfare. Sorry also for judging a man based on ability to contribute and not on his needs.


Its the logical extension of focusing purely on negative freedoms. The freedom to starve.
Reply 72
Original post by Keckers
Economic freedom leads to social freedom.


Does it? What do you mean by "economic freedom"?
Reply 73
Original post by n00
But down in real terms. http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/nhs-spending-has-been-cut-tories-forced-to-admit-8395976.html Either way its not recieving the funding it requires.

At the time I wrote the original post (10 months ago) the healthcare budget had increased in real terms year on year. However what the NHS does not need is a pile of money being thrown at it. What does need to happen is a sensible reform, to spend money on patients, rather than farces such as this (I know its the daily fail but the numbers don't lie) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2006006/NHS--2-packet-pasta-cost-50-including-delivery.html


Is your dad being denied? Wouldn't surprise me with the way Atos are treating the disabled. Is your dad more deserving than this guy? Welcome to the DWP, please leave all common sense at the door. I'm not sure if you're being serious here, questioning whether someone unable to walk properly needs a parking permit so they can get closer to where they need to go :rolleyes:




The NHS is one of if not the most efficient in the world. No amount of juggling targets and fiddling around with less efficient, more expensive private health care providers is going to fix the problems with the NHS. We either do away with universal free at the point of use care or we give it the funding it requires.


This sort of attitude is exactly what breeds problems in the NHS. Efficiency and care are mutually incompatible. If you pursue efficiency, you neglect an aspect of care. What would be a much better idea, would be to fire the politburos of managers in hospitals (shortly before my Mum left healthcare, they actually appointed a group of managers to manage the managers in her area :K: ). The solution to the problems facing the NHS is not in more money or in more targets, rather a better structure of management, with positions awarded on experience and skill, rather than appointing supermarket managers to high offices (Happening right now!). Bring back a system with plenty of matrons and nurses, funded by the savings from not having a clumsy bureaucracy.
Original post by Pyramidologist
David Cameron is linked to the extreme left (communist) UAF (''Unite Against Fascism'') thug organisation, his signature is on their website, listed as a founding signatory.

The UAF are a thug communist group who attack children and women, this is what David Cameron supports.

Video: UAF - Celebrating Violence Against Women in Tower Hamlets
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature&v=OJcG2C22okE

This is what Cameron has signed up for, and financially backs.


Umm.... no they beat up the woman for being a nationalist.... She was in the EDL....

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Original post by Tedaus
Funny how people on the right think Conservative are central left and people on the left think Labour are central right.

I wish there was a UKIP version of a left wing party - ie, further to the left than Labour. But populist opinion means we won't get that for a long time.

In answer to the question though, no I can't. Although far right people will think most of them are left wing, since their political spectrums are skewed.


Umm... Yeah it's called socialism....

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Reply 76
Original post by jreid1994
Umm.... no they beat up the woman for being a nationalist.... She was in the EDL....

Posted from TSR Mobile


The UAF don't beat anyone up, soft lad. They're not AFA or Red Action, those days are long gone.
Surely the maintenance of a welfare state, free healthcare, minimum wage etc etc etc, are all left wing policies?
Reply 78
All of them?

There's a reason life-long Tories are deserting the party in droves for UKIP. Proper Tories don't want to hear Cameron talking about windturbines and gay marriage, that's what Labour and the Lib Dems are for.
The Conservative Party simply isn't conservative anymore.

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