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ruthiepoothie
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Do you think they are a good idea??
and should students really be protesting if it isn't even going to affect them-only people starting in 2006 so even 2nd and 3rd years in 2006 won't be affected as i understand it??
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ruthiepoothie
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(Original post by ruthiepoothie)
Do you think they are a good idea??
and should students really be protesting if it isn't even going to affect them-only people starting in 2006 so even 2nd and 3rd years in 2006 won't be affected as i understand it??

i take it that no-one is bothered about top up fees here then??
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babyboo
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it wont affect the majority of people on here who have applied to uni so why should it bother them. its a fantastic idea on economic grounds just not politically!
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Ditzy
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(Original post by ruthiepoothie)
Do you think they are a good idea??
and should students really be protesting if it isn't even going to affect them-only people starting in 2006 so even 2nd and 3rd years in 2006 won't be affected as i understand it??
But its the principle of it. The government introduced the £1000 a year fees with the promise that it would give extra funding to the universities, but the universities are getting the same amount of money because they're now not receiving as much government funding. Also the average student is already graduating with over £10,000 worth of debt, with the new system this can only increase. It may not affect the majority of us, but it still something worth campaigning against. The government ministers who are pushing the bill through all received free higher education.
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Fishcat
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Whant amazes me is that there have been 2 sets of strikes/protests this week:

1)Students 'up in arms' about proposed top-up fees

2)Lecturers/teachers who are UNDERPAID!!!

It is a fact that some universities are vastly underfunded, and thus cannot afford to keep top-quality lecturers and researchers at their universities: meaning that long-established courses with excellent reputatons will fade into nothingness due to only attracting second-rate teaching staff to their universities.

I agree that it is hard to think of leaving uni life to be left with immense debts, however higher education has always come at a price.
Those who complain that these top-up fees are directly victimising students from middleclass backgrounds have me perplexed. Parents should be responsible for looking after their children, a vital part of that being their education: especially uni, where a student chooses their life's path. Surely middleclass PARENTS should complain if anyone, as they are the people who should surely paying for their children's education.
If they cannot afford to do this, then the fees allow their children to ofset the cost until they can afford it.

Personally, i think most responsibility should fall on parents. I know uni is traditionally where a person first gains independence, but personally (maybe only my opinion) I think ithis can be achieved alongside sterling support (financially and emotionally) from parents.

I find it unbelieveable that a student's parents would, if they could do anything about it, let their child slide into debt at such a vital stage of life! As stated above, if the parents cannot afford to help, and the student is unable to cope with the cost, then these proposals will help their child ofset cost.

Several of my friends have been told by parents to get a job at uni (parents with PLENTY of money) to try to pay for costs. I suppose thats why I'm writing this (after a conversation with one of them) as i was shocked to hear the parent's blatant disregard for their child's wellbeing. Surely that time would be better spent studying? Why would a parent do something to detract from their child's precious time at uni?
Where is the love in that?



I would like to apologise for my (possible woefully inaccurate at some level) rantings here, but I suppose I just dont understand it.
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Leekey
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(Original post by Fishcat)
Several of my friends have been told by parents to get a job at uni (parents with PLENTY of money) to try to pay for costs. I suppose thats why I'm writing this (after a conversation with one of them) as i was shocked to hear the parent's blatant disregard for their child's wellbeing. Surely that time would be better spent studying? Why would a parent do something to detract from their child's precious time at uni?
Where is the love in that?



I would like to apologise for my (possible woefully inaccurate at some level) rantings here, but I suppose I just dont understand it.
Disreguard for well-being?!? My parents would gladly contribute towards my education if I allowed them to. Due to the fact that I am emmensely proud of the fact that I earn a living, I will not accept their money. In my view, I am the one getting the education, I am the one that will benefit in the long term and thus I will be the one that pays for it!!! Earning the money to put yourself through university doesn't affect your well being (other than making you feel proud to have achieved such a thing)!!! It irritates me that some people (were people now, NOT children) just expect their parents to be a blank cheque throughout university, I for one take pride in the fact that I won't be taking a penny of their money (it is afterall not mine)!!!
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Fishcat
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Well, i suppose it comes down to your relationship with your parents. I can understand the want to be self-reliant, but i know of all too many people unable to cope (some who have dropped out of their respective courses) because they were either affraid to ask for help, or their parents refused it (!).

I never said that students are childern, buth thats the term for a pernt's offspring no? It would have been stupid to say "their people".
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Leekey
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(Original post by Fishcat)

I never said that students are childern, buth thats the term for a pernt's offspring no? It would have been stupid to say "their people".
I wasn't making a direct refeference to your post...
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waiting2smile
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(Original post by ruthiepoothie)
Do you think they are a good idea??
and should students really be protesting if it isn't even going to affect them-only people starting in 2006 so even 2nd and 3rd years in 2006 won't be affected as i understand it??
I oppose it. I don't think i'm eligible for any help to pay my fees What's worse is knowing that it's not a stable figure, that it will rise.
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lilsunflower
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(Original post by Leekey)
It irritates me that some people (were people now, NOT children) just expect their parents to be a blank cheque throughout university, I for one take pride in the fact that I won't be taking a penny of their money (it is afterall not mine)!!!
Maybe it's a cultural thing, but where I'm from, parents pay every penny for our education (for me, it's close to 200,000 pounds from pre-school to uni).. and it's not only me.. for my parents would be 'ashamed' of themselves if they could not afford to pay for the entire education of their 4 children.

However, where I'm from, we don't pay taxes and we don't have a welfare system. This is because we're supposed to take care of our own. We would NEVER harbour the thought of sending our parents to old folks' homes or daycare centres or whatever; we will make room in our homes if necessary for them to stay permanently; we will pay for all their healthcare (there is no free health service); we will provide for their every last wish.

I guess it's a kind of role reversal... so I don't feel guilty about spending their money now because I WILL take care of them the moment I start earning my own money.
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Kalypso
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(Original post by lilsunflower)
Maybe it's a cultural thing, but where I'm from, parents pay every penny for our education (for me, it's close to 200,000 pounds from pre-school to uni).. and it's not only me.. for my parents would be 'ashamed' of themselves if they could not afford to pay for the entire education of their 4 children.
It's not just cultural - I'm sure people would like to do that for their chidren (except that our family is quite lefty, so perhaps not ) but £200,000 X 4 would be roughly equivalent to 20-30 years earning potential for my parents, and that is if their income was tax free, which it is not.
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Fishcat
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Grey Faerie: do you think the new scheme would benefit you/your family by ofsetting cost (even if costs are higher)??

lilsunflower: I think thats true, where theres trust in family, I think money becomes owned by all the family (tribal in a way!), so that everyone is looked after.
Surely money should go to whoever needs it most in a family. So when a child (sorry "person" ) from a family goes to uni, they should get increased funds from the family due to their larger need.

Am i talking rubbish?
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Mysticmin
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The principle of top-up fees is a good one, because universities are underfunded and it's dragging back the research quality of our top institutions.

However I don't think its fair to charge medics, and anyone else who is entering public service for their course...after all they are beneficial to society as a whole and don't get paid as much in respect to their working hours.

The ideal solution is for the government to promote vocational qualifications and get rid of this ridiculous target of 50% in higher education. If there 50% of the population did have degrees, it would increase prejudice against "lesser" institutions and devalue the degree itself.

And if there were not 50%, then the government could go back into it's system of grants and no fees at all. After all, not everyone is suited to a degree.
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Fishcat
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(Original post by Mysticmin)
The principle of top-up fees are a good one, because universities are underfunded and it's dragging back the research quality of our top institutions.

However I don't think its fair to charge medics, and anyone else who is entering public service for their course...after all they are beneficial to society as a whole and don't get paid as much in respect to their working hours.

The ideal solution is for the government to promote vocational qualifications and get rid of this ridiculous target of 50% in higher education. If there 50% of the population did have degrees, it would increase prejudice against "lesser" institutions and devalue the degree itself.

And if there were not 50%, then the government could go back into it's system of grants and no fees at all. After all, not everyone is suited to a degree.
True, we don't want to go back to polytechnics again.
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