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the perfection of aeneas

I thought I liked Virgil, but I'm in the depths of an essay on him and I'm finding Aeneas profoundly irritating. He's too perfect. He cries on cue, wins battles, manages to visit the underworld whilst still being alive, manages to achieve his goal of founding Rome, when he arrives on the shores of Euboean Cumae in book six, all his men desperately try and make fire, eat...Aeneas goes straight off to Apollo's shrine. He even leaves Dido because of his relentless obedience to the Gods. Am I being narrow minded - are there any flaws to his character, other than him being pious beyond belief, or is he the embodiment of perfection? Is their heroism in being perfect? I began my essay arguing that Virgil's underworld was a humanised one, and a celebration of the greatness of man, but now I'm not so sure if it has anything to do with man - Aeneas is godlike in every sense, so how is he a hero? Can a God be a hero or is that title reserved for flawed humans?

I'm off to go bang my head against a wall.

Reply 1

Nero_DM

Yeah i find him such a sterotype you can really see how virgil was trying to create the perfect chracter to make all his points about the evils of war aeneas is more like a puppet than a real believable character and because of that you have no empathy for the character and therfore its really hard to like the book, Homer's odyssey is so much better.
But flaws you can say, book 2 where he wants to kill helen rash emotional behaviour, When he rushes out to fight the trojan war and dosen't think about his fammily he has to be reminded about them, staying with dido in the first place when he knew he wasnt meant to therfore succumbing to his human passion, His emotional handling of dido the way that they he just dissapears one day and dosent seem to communicate with her, and he dosent take his responsibility of pallas seriously because if he was perfect hero he would have kept his word and been there for him to make sure he didnt die. Erm if i can think of anything else ill let you know but am preety sure thats most of it.

Reply 2

Nero_DM

Oh yeah and its all about the human element he makes way to much of characters like camilla, pallas, dido, Nisus and Euryalus, to show you the horror of war the whole second half of the book is like anoying little sidelines about these people for which i dont really care about.

Reply 3

Marrissey

I've always found him to be one of the more boring heroes.

Reply 4

paddy

14

Also the fact that he goes totally spaztic after Pallas was killed and then kills Lausus even thought Lausus was just trying to protect his father. He also is about to spare Turnus, but is reminded by Pallas' sword belt that Turnus killed Pallas and so kill Turnus anyway.
Honestly Aeneas is such a dull hero, you just wish he'd die sometimes when reading that poem :rolleyes:

Reply 5

Catsmeat

13

Ha yes, when he arrives at Cumae in book six, I thought at the time "you insensitive bastard" but Virgil was very much in the mind of portraying Roman glory in all its splendour (which accounts for the self indulgence in the underworld...) and so he had to fulfil physical, sexual and mental perfection...and by leaving Dido he is forsaking sexual and marital bliss for the greater good (i.e. setting up the foundation of Rome). Although maybe Virgil would have altered him, had he survived to write it all realising how he was too godlike. He has no faults I can see (other than those already mentioned), he's like an ancient super model, which makes Homer that little bit more appealing.

Maybe Virgil did intend to kill him off in dramatic form perhaps...

Aenas: Right. Okay. Look at us Trojans in Latium, basking in all our well oiled splendour...*weeps...whilst fighting off various Rutulians*
Turnus: Oi, Trojans?
Trojan army: Oh, hello...
Turnus: You hold him down, I’ll stab him in the face...
Trojan army: *celebrates in joy*

Etc etc...

Reply 6

paddy

14

(Owen)123

Maybe Virgil did intend to kill him off in dramatic form perhaps...

Aenas: Right. Okay. Look at us Trojans in Latium, basking in all our well oiled splendour...*weeps...whilst fighting off various Rutulians*
Turnus: Oi, Trojans?
Trojan army: Oh, hello...
Turnus: You hold him down, I’ll stab him in the face...
Trojan army: *celebrates in joy*

Etc etc...

HA! That is blatently how Vergil was going to end it before he upped and died.
It also irritates me how Ascanius is referred to as Iulus. Hmmm, bet Augustus had nothing to do with that :rolleyes:

Reply 7

noddy

I know this is probably too late for your essay, but try arguing with Aristotle.
The Aeneid was read as a handbook for masculinity and piety from the day of its publication to the medieval schools.
Do heroes have to have a flaw? Many would agree with Mr Aristotle, but the thinking nowadays is to shirk away from this idea. Perhaps Aeneas is the perfect hero? He's invincible, and almost predictable.
Of course he's rather 2-dimensional. Noone can be the epitome of piety and virtue, and still remain a realistic character.

Reply 8

nuttymimi

2

aeneas isn't perfect all of the time - particularly if you look at book 4 (Dido & Aeneas). In this book he shows himself to really only think about himself - he isn't too worried about Dido and how what he is doing - the way he is leading her on - is affecting her. He ups and leaves at the flick of a switch...think about it...!

Reply 9

tritogeneia1

1

Ah, pius Aeneas, the annoying bastard. I love your alternate ending, Owen123. Or maybe Creusa comes back and murders him; I always had this theory that she was never really dead, but just wanted to get away from Aeneas (and Anchises, who is almost as bad).
Aeneas doesn't handle leaving Dido very competently, though I don't know if this counts against him as a hero; my argument has always been that it wasn't so much his fault that he had to leave Dido, there was compulsion, but he handled it incredibly badly and tactlessly, denying that they'd ever had anything in the first place and she was mad to think so, and then trying to just sneak off hoping she wouldn't notice. Bastard. IMO that lack of judgement was quite a human failing.
Why is there no 'zap Aeneas' site, like the 'zap Caecilius' one?

Reply 10

sugarwhirl89

1

Aeneas isn't perfect. He starts off as quite a flawed character IMO in the start of his own 'odyssey'. He doesn't listen to the Gods at first (yes this is supposed to make him seem very courageous and heroic, etc. for not running away from battle). He needs how many messages from the Gods to finally make his way to Italy???! He runs away from the cyclops instead of staying and fighting. He stays with Dido for what, ten years? Before Jupiter decides to give him a kick in the backside to get him going. And then he is as tactful as ever in not telling Dido what happened, etc. and therefore she ends up throwing herself on her own funeral pyre. Until very far into the story, Aeneas doesn't seem to be able to do anything without the direction of the gods. He can't even be a decent father to Ascanius/Iulus - "Son, others can teach you about love, I can only teach you duty" or whatever. And he kills Turnus in cold blood.
I personally prefer Turnus to Aeneas any day. And Mezentius of course :P

Reply 11

ElWilson

14

Well; it is Virgil's myth. I'm sure he can make him as perfect as he wishes :smile:

.

Reply 12

nuttymimi

2

Just picked up on something Tritogeneia1 said about human failings - Aeneas does have quite a lot of these. He is very much a human character. He is overcome with grief when creusa dies, he is also 'struck dumb' at numerous points throughout the epic and has trouble deciding what course of action to follow on book 2.

Reply 13

Redhothead

I think that the point of it is that Aeneas starts off as a traditional "Greek" hero, who only has thoughts for a glorious death in battle and honour, and he has to make the transition to a Roman displaying the quality of "Pietas" duty to family, gods and perhaps most improtantly, to state.
Virgil agreed with Augustus that Rome needed to go back to the traditional values that madew it great. Aeneas is the symbol of that.

Also, Aeneas' fault is that he gives in too easily to uncontrolable rage (in Troy and after Pallas' death). Augustus used to be violent, but in that time, he was setting himself up as a peacful man, Virgil is asking the question whether Romans should prize or reject this "furor" in themselves.

Reply 14

nuttymimi

2

heres another thing for you - would you say that Virgil's characterisation is done well, also do you think its better than homer........?
Personnaly, i think I prefer homer and his style of writing. It somehow doesn't seem quite so..serious..its slightly more light-hearted ....just a thought..

Reply 15

Redhothead

Yeah I agree. Though I prefer the Iliad to the Odessey as I like the way Achilles is portrayed - its more realistic than the odessey.

Reply 16

sophieliz

12

Just go through each book finding examples or furor and pietas to compare. There are quite a few, but I don't want to do the essay for you! I may post some later though if revising for my degree doesn't kill me.

Reply 17

lekha85

1

The whole point of Aeneas is that he is the imperfect hero. All the way through the poem he shows human flaws and characteristics. I could list them but they're not hard to find and I don't have the time right now.
The most important one is that the entire poem ends in a moment of furor, of imperfection. Aeneas' pietas finally fails him when he sees Pallas' belt on Turnus and he is caught up in rage and ignores Turnus' pleas for mercy.
Aeneas is far from perfect and the poem constantly chronicles the conflict between pietas and furor.

Reply 18

ollyorb

lekha85

The whole point of Aeneas is that he is the imperfect hero. All the way through the poem he shows human flaws and characteristics. I could list them but they're not hard to find and I don't have the time right now.
The most important one is that the entire poem ends in a moment of furor, of imperfection. Aeneas' pietas finally fails him when he sees Pallas' belt on Turnus and he is caught up in rage and ignores Turnus' pleas for mercy.
Aeneas is far from perfect and the poem constantly chronicles the conflict between pietas and furor.

Yeah I agree entirely. Aeneas is flawed and in fact, Virgil undermines his entire character when he kills Turnus at the end. Aeneas acts not peacefully as a true Virgilian hero should do, but seeks bloodthirsty, personal revenge, to gratify his own guilty conscience. So really he's not perfect at all.

What I find interesting is comparing the ending of The Aeneid with the ending of The Odyssey. Virgil chooses to end his work with Aeneas acting like a ruthless Homeric hero by killing Turnus; Homer chooses to end his work with peace being restored by Athene, and the remaining suitor's lives being spared... like a true Virgilian hero! Maybe Virgil was having a little ironic laugh when he wrote The Aeneid ??!!

the perfection of aeneas

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