Applying for English: Advice from an admissions tutor

Original post by carnationlilyrose

... anyone spelling Jane Austen's name incorrectly is an automatic reject. (She really wasn't joking about this.)

PRSOM - for the whole post, really!, but especially for this bit.

This is really useful advice, to be read alongside How to Avoid Getting 5 Rejections.

Reply 2

OP

Original post by Minerva

PRSOM - for the whole post, really!, but especially for this bit.

This is really useful advice, to be read alongside How to Avoid Getting 5 Rejections.

Cheers! (What's PRSOM? :redface:

) It sounds a bit bleak written down here, but she was a really nice woman, clearly keen to get the right students into the right courses. I promised her I would make it anonymous, but it applies to pretty well all AAA-requiring universities, Russell Group or not. I certainly agree with the spelling issue. Horsewhipping is too good for anyone unable to spell Shakespeare, even though he couldn't himself.

Reply 3

Minerva

Original post by carnationlilyrose

Cheers! (What's PRSOM? :redface:

) It sounds a bit bleak written down here, but she was a really nice woman, clearly keen to get the right students into the right courses. I promised her I would make it anonymous, but it applies to pretty well all AAA-requiring universities, Russell Group or not. I certainly agree with the spelling issue. Horsewhipping is too good for anyone unable to spell Shakespeare, even though he couldn't himself.

PRSOM = "please rate some other user" - TSR speak for "you need to rep a few other people before you can rep this user again".

I don't think it's bleak at all - it's really helpful to have specific and explicit advice. That way, people don't inadvertently waste their choices on hopeless causes.

Shakespeare and his contemporaries had a very relaxed attitude towards spelling anything, let alone names...

Reply 4

OP

Original post by Minerva

PRSOM = "please rate some other user" - TSR speak for "you need to rep a few other people before you can rep this user again".

I don't think it's bleak at all - it's really helpful to have specific and explicit advice. That way, people don't inadvertently waste their choices on hopeless causes.

Shakespeare and his contemporaries had a very relaxed attitude towards spelling anything, let alone names...

Yes, dyslexics had a much easier time back then.

With something as competitive as English, all knowledge is power. Choosing the right course for your level of ability is crucial, otherwise it's a straight route to a wretched results day with nowhere to go. 'Know yourself and apply accordingly' is a good motto.

Reply 5

hobnob

14

Original post by carnationlilyrose

Spelling, punctuation and grammar really matter. A single typo won't get the application thrown out, but they are especially annoyed by applicants who cannot get the names of authors, books or characters right, and anyone spelling Jane Austen's name incorrectly is an automatic reject. (She really wasn't joking about this.)

I've seen lots of those in the drafts I've reviewed for PS help, and although I always correct them, it is a little bit annoying when someone appears to have never had a proper look at the books they claim to love so much. :erm:

It's such an easy thing to verify too, even if it's something you read a while ago and you don't personally own a copy of the text.

Reply 6

OP

Original post by hobnob

I've seen lots of those in the drafts I've reviewed for PS help, and although I always correct them, it is a little bit annoying when someone appears to have never had a proper look at the books they claim to love so much. :erm:

It's such an easy thing to verify too, even if it's something you read a while ago and you don't personally own a copy of the text.

Absolutely right. It sends all the wrong messages. How can you be taken seriously as a student of the English language if you just don't notice things like that? Even if the applicant personally doesn't regard it as important, the tutors most definitely do, so it's crucial to get it right.

Reply 7

Aeschylus

Original post by carnationlilyrose

Yesterday I attended a careers advisers' conference at what I'll refer to anonymously as a prestigious Russell Group university in the north of England, and I thought it might be worth posting here what the admissions tutor for English said in a workshop on applying successfully. There's nothing new or revolutionary here if you have a Head of Sixth or a tutor with experience, but not everyone's in that position, so it bears repeating just in case not everyone knows this. Although this was a conference at one specific university, the tutor confirmed that this was standard practice at comparable institutions.

•

If the grade requirements are, as in this case, AAA, there is no point at all in applying if you are not predicted AAA. There is an automatic rejection filter for this. A*AB is not an acceptable alternative either at the application stage or on results day.

•

The personal statement is the most important element of the application after the predicted grades. (It won't get read if you haven't got the grades.)

•

GCSEs don't enter into the equation as long as the basic requirement has been met. Tutors recognise that people develop at different rates.

•

You must focus on the subject you are applying for and show awareness of the course content. An application for English and Theatre Studies which contains no reference to drama will be automatically rejected.

•

You must show a breadth of interest beyond the A level curriculum, and that means reading a wide range of literature in different genres and from different time periods. Only mentioning modern fiction will ensure that they will form the opinion that you are not going to handle the other aspects of the course. Above all, they want you to show a range of literary interests and intellectual curiosity.

•

Show, don't tell. Demonstrate the interest you are claiming to have. Don't make generic statements.

•

Give evidence of critical reflection on your experiences. It does not need to be positive. You can acknowledge the limitations of your experience thus far but use them as a springboard to demonstrate how much you are ready to learn. Don't try to claim you know everything already.

•

Minimise extracurricular content. I will quote the tutor exactly here: 'The more academic subjects, as opposed to vocational ones, at competitive, research-led universities want only minimal extracurricular details, if any at all.'

•

Spelling, punctuation and grammar really matter. A single typo won't get the application thrown out, but they are especially annoyed by applicants who cannot get the names of authors, books or characters right, and anyone spelling Jane Austen's name incorrectly is an automatic reject. (She really wasn't joking about this.)

As I say, nothing earthshatteringly new here, but this is the season for year 12s to start on the preliminary stages of applying and they haven't been through all this before, so it's useful to have a bit of a checklist at this stage.

Fantastic thread, v useful for applicants. In the (very basic) PS help I've done, I've always tried to make people take out generic statements (Shakespeare was obsessed with sex was one) and focus on the nitty gritty

By the way, don't mean to 1 up you but I mispelled 'English' in my personal statement back in the day (Engish) anyone. No one noticed it but you can still see the dent in the School Library where I bashed my head after realising I'd sent the sodding thing.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 8

Skaði

Original post by carnationlilyrose

You must show a breadth of interest beyond the A level curriculum, and that means reading a wide range of literature in different genres and from different time periods. Only mentioning modern fiction will ensure that they will form the opinion that you are not going to handle the other aspects of the course. Above all, they want you to show a range of literary interests and intellectual curiosity.

I think I read somewhere on TSR that university tutors/whoever goes through the applications get really pissed off by the number of applicants whose reading material extends only to the texts they studied at A Level and Harry Potter :colone:

Excellent post. I've considered applying for English, actually: I think it's the only subject I've read around! :biggrin:

We'll see how that English Literature exam went, though... :s-smilie:

Reply 9

OP

Original post by Aeschylus

Fantastic thread, v useful for applicants. In the (very basic) PS help I've done, I've always tried to make people take out generic statements (Shakespeare was obsessed with sex was one) and focus on the nitty gritty

By the way, don't mean to 1 up you but I mispelled 'English' in my personal statement back in the day (Engish) anyone. No one noticed it but you can still see the dent in the School Library where I bashed my head after realising I'd sent the sodding thing.

Well, the tutor did say one typo wasn't the end of the world! Imagine what it was like in the olden days when they were handwritten in ink on paper and you only got one copy of the form!

Reply 10

OP

Original post by Skaði

I think I read somewhere on TSR that university tutors/whoever goes through the applications get really pissed off by the number of applicants whose reading material extends only to the texts they studied at A Level and Harry Potter :colone:

Excellent post. I've considered applying for English, actually: I think it's the only subject I've read around! :biggrin:

We'll see how that English Literature exam went, though... :s-smilie:

Yes, Stephen King is another writer whose devotees can't see why he shouldn't be included! Good luck with your application. :smile:

Reply 11

Mr Dangermouse

This is why I preferred the proposed new system. I find "predicted" grades to be ridiculous, because what of you exceed them?

Reply 12

OP

Original post by Mr Dangermouse

This is why I preferred the proposed new system. I find "predicted" grades to be ridiculous, because what of you exceed them?

Many of us would agree. If you exceed them, you are eligible for Adjustment, but there are very few places available through that route, and if you are aiming for a course requiring AAA there's nothing likely to be around above that. There are about 400 - 500 people placed through Adjustment each year, and that's across all courses and all institutions. There's nothing much doing for such oversubscribed courses as English.

Reply 13

Reader 79

9

Original post by carnationlilyrose

Yes, Stephen King is another writer whose devotees can't see why he shouldn't be included! :smile:

Well, I don't think there's there's anything wrong with including genre fiction as long as that's not all your statement's limited to. Tolkien, for example, is a good gateway through which to demonstrate your interest in Old English. I think it would be perfectly acceptable to begin with a generic interest in fantasy and heroic literature, demonstrated by a passion for The Lord of the Rings, then show how it's broadened your outlook by moving on to mention Beowulf and the Old Norse sagas, then to classical Greek / Roman myth and biblical literature (all areas on the syllabus at Durham, for example).

And as for Harry Potter - well, it's intertextual - children's fantasy, school story, coming of age, etc. If it's mentioned as part of a chronologically and generically broad variety of reading matter, it should be fine.

Balance is the key. :smile:

Reply 14

OP

Original post by Reader 79

Well, I don't think there's there's anything wrong with including genre fiction as long as that's not all your statement's limited to. Tolkien, for example, is a good gateway through which to demonstrate your interest in Old English. I think it would be perfectly acceptable to begin with a generic interest in fantasy and heroic literature, demonstrated by a passion for The Lord of the Rings, then show how it's broadened your outlook by moving on to mention Beowulf and the Old Norse sagas, then to classical Greek / Roman myth and biblical literature (all areas on the syllabus at Durham, for example).

And as for Harry Potter - well, it's intertextual - children's fantasy, school story, coming of age, etc. If it's mentioned as part of a chronologically and generically broad variety of reading matter, it should be fine.

Balance is the key. :smile:

Certainly, if that's what you go on to do. However, the tutor at the university I refered to said very clearly that not enough people do that, and listing Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings on their own is a speedy route to the trash pile. She was very specific that a wide range of genres and especially periods of literature should be the major focus of the ps. This is a message I've worked to get across during my 24 years as a sixth form tutor processing PS for English courses, and it's surprising how narrow some students' ideas of literature are. What the tutor wanted to see was the demonstration of intellectual curiosity and the readiness to rise to the challenge of complex texts, neither of which is demonstrated by reading Harry Potter or LOTR, whatever you may think of them as texts.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 15

Aeschylus

I see what you mean. Though I did talk in various interivews about Terry Pratchett and Warhammer Novels (good ol' Dan Abnett) I did relate them to various movements and writers outside a traditional 'comfort zone'

I can't believe people would just put harry potter and LOTR on their PS!

Reply 16

OP

Original post by Aeschylus

I see what you mean. Though I did talk in various interivews about Terry Pratchett and Warhammer Novels (good ol' Dan Abnett) I did relate them to various movements and writers outside a traditional 'comfort zone'

I can't believe people would just put harry potter and LOTR on their PS!

Believe it... Even kids I've taught myself, until I beat it out of them (in a kind and considerate manner, of course. :colone:

) I am very fond of Terry P myself, so I'm not coming at this from a position of intellectual snobbery. It's just that there's a difference between reading for pleasure and reading as an intellectual endeavour, and it's the latter that tutors want to see. Call them intellectual snobs if you like, but they're the ones who hold the keys to the magic kingdom of university, so it's better to play to their prejudices until you've got your foot in the door.

Reply 17

Kenocide

11

Original post by carnationlilyrose

Yesterday I attended a careers advisers' conference at what I'll refer to anonymously as a prestigious Russell Group university in the north of England, and I thought it might be worth posting here what the admissions tutor for English said in a workshop on applying successfully. There's nothing new or revolutionary here if you have a Head of Sixth or a tutor with experience, but not everyone's in that position, so it bears repeating just in case not everyone knows this. Although this was a conference at one specific university, the tutor confirmed that this was standard practice at comparable institutions.

•

If the grade requirements are, as in this case, AAA, there is no point at all in applying if you are not predicted AAA. There is an automatic rejection filter for this. A*AB is not an acceptable alternative either at the application stage or on results day.

•

The personal statement is the most important element of the application after the predicted grades. (It won't get read if you haven't got the grades.)

•

GCSEs don't enter into the equation as long as the basic requirement has been met. Tutors recognise that people develop at different rates.

•

You must focus on the subject you are applying for and show awareness of the course content. An application for English and Theatre Studies which contains no reference to drama will be automatically rejected.

•

You must show a breadth of interest beyond the A level curriculum, and that means reading a wide range of literature in different genres and from different time periods. Only mentioning modern fiction will ensure that they will form the opinion that you are not going to handle the other aspects of the course. Above all, they want you to show a range of literary interests and intellectual curiosity.

•

Show, don't tell. Demonstrate the interest you are claiming to have. Don't make generic statements.

•

Give evidence of critical reflection on your experiences. It does not need to be positive. You can acknowledge the limitations of your experience thus far but use them as a springboard to demonstrate how much you are ready to learn. Don't try to claim you know everything already.

•

Minimise extracurricular content. I will quote the tutor exactly here: 'The more academic subjects, as opposed to vocational ones, at competitive, research-led universities want only minimal extracurricular details, if any at all.'

•

Spelling, punctuation and grammar really matter. A single typo won't get the application thrown out, but they are especially annoyed by applicants who cannot get the names of authors, books or characters right, and anyone spelling Jane Austen's name incorrectly is an automatic reject. (She really wasn't joking about this.)

As I say, nothing earthshatteringly new here, but this is the season for year 12s to start on the preliminary stages of applying and they haven't been through all this before, so it's useful to have a bit of a checklist at this stage.

The only bit I disagree with is in bold.

When I applied to university initially my final results came out as exactly that, A*AB when I needed AAA and I was still offered a place at my insurance. That was at a reputable university to study Law - not a top bracket university, but certainly top 15 for Law. (Incidentally I instantly got the exam which caused the B remarked and it subsequently went up two grades, giving me an A overall which meant that this point was irrelevant in the end for me - there's a lesson in that too.)

Reply 18

OP

Original post by Kenocide

The only bit I disagree with is in bold.

When I applied to university initially my final results came out as exactly that, A*AB when I needed AAA and I was still offered a place at my insurance. That was at a reputable university to study Law - not a top bracket university, but certainly top 15 for Law. (Incidentally I instantly got the exam which caused the B remarked and it subsequently went up two grades, giving me an A overall which meant that this point was irrelevant in the end for me - there's a lesson in that too.)

It isn't a matter of agreement or not. This is explicitly what was said at this university by this admissions tutor in answer to the express question from the floor about whether A*AB would be acceptable this year as an equivalent. It looks as if you haven't applied to university this year or for English, so your situation isn't quite the same. The course is massively oversubscribed and they are actively seeking ways to discriminate between many very deserving and very similar candidates and like most other Russell Group universities, they don't need to be flexible about this and they were very emphatic on the matter on the day. I completely understand that this is a very unpalatable truth and that in the past many people have got in in this way (I include myself in this, though the practice of more than 3 decades ago is scarcely relevant) but the message was very clear: this will not happen this year, on this course, in this and comparable institutions and I am passing that message on so that people who are applying this year know the score and can plan accordingly.

Reply 19

Minerva