The Student Room Group

When is consent consent?

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/men/news/s/207/207762_rape_ad_is_stark_warning_to_men.html

I can understand the reasoning behind all this, but the way things are going men will need to get signed permision in order to do it.

Especialy with the current climate of some woman crying rape when nothing ilegal happened but they just regretted it.

Unless a girl says no, physical resists or is totaly unware of it (i.e asleep) then I don't really see how it is rape. Is getting a girl drunk in the hope of getting a girl into bed rape? I don't think it is, unless she was spiked etc the girl should take responsibility not to get drunk with a guy she may not know.

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Reply 1
Apparently, its rape if a girl is too drunk to decide whether she really wants the sex.

Would it be the same though if the girl was sober and the guy was drunk?
Reply 2
I agree - the need for consent is being taken too far, I mean, there are plenty of situations where consent is just explicit - you shouldn't need to ask "Are you sure you want to engage in intercourse with me? If so please sign here, initial here, and fill in this form in triplicate, then we're away!". Not that it particularly affects me, but it's pretty stupid. If a woman doesn't want to have sex she should say no or resist and the law should reflect this.
Reply 3
Exactly, if I have 10 pints I know there is a much greater chance of ending up undernearth a bus or mugged so I don't have ten pints.

If a girl gets totaly drunk that she dosn't know what she is doing then it is her own problem. Of course the guy should not take advantage of that, so maybe crinimal proceedings can still take place, but not for rape.

Common sense has just gone out of the window.
Reply 4
I agree exactly - I dont like the idea of rape any more than anyone else...but the fact is, if someone says yes, they mean yes. If they say yes but are too drunk to know what they're saying, then it is their fault for not being responsible enough to maintain a state where they have control over themselves.

Also - I agree with your point casey - if it was the other way around, no one would care.
Reply 5
AT82
Exactly, if I have 10 pints I know there is a much greater chance of ending up undernearth a bus or mugged so I don't have ten pints.

If a girl gets totaly drunk that she dosn't know what she is doing then it is her own problem. Of course the guy should not take advantage of that, so maybe crinimal proceedings can still take place, but not for rape.

Common sense has just gone out of the window.


If a girl is that drunk, any guy with any sense of decency should be able to keep his hands off her. I don't know which way to lean on this one, the problem comes when both are drunk, how are you going to get consent then? And if both cry rape due to lack of consent who wins?
Reply 6
AT82
Exactly, if I have 10 pints I know there is a much greater chance of ending up undernearth a bus or mugged so I don't have ten pints.

If a girl gets totaly drunk that she dosn't know what she is doing then it is her own problem. Of course the guy should not take advantage of that, so maybe crinimal proceedings can still take place, but not for rape.

Common sense has just gone out of the window.

It is just men being villified - Also, I believe that apportioning the blame in this way is very sexist, as if the women dont have the ability to make up their minds but men do, so instead of being examplary of modern understanding, it is an example of extreme sexism...

Quite simply, "rape" is always a possibility when you've drank a ridiculous amount, hence dont.
Reply 7
AT82


If a girl gets totaly drunk that she dosn't know what she is doing then it is her own problem. Of course the guy should not take advantage of that, so maybe crinimal proceedings can still take place, but not for rape.

Well what for then?
Casey
Apparently, its rape if a girl is too drunk to decide whether she really wants the sex.

Would it be the same though if the girl was sober and the guy was drunk?


if the guy was that drunk would he really be able to get it up?? but other than that i guess it should be the same.

i think that really is taking it too far though. i mean does the guy have to ask? "stop undoing my flies i need to ask u if u want sex" could be very funny and quite frustrating couldnt it?
Reply 9
bikerx23
It is just men being villified - Also, I believe that apportioning the blame in this way is very sexist

As was the emphasis on the woman doing what she can to prevent being raped. I think it's fair to remind men of a way in which to avoid trouble, just like women have continually had it drummed into them.
Reply 10
Casey
If a girl is that drunk, any guy with any sense of decency should be able to keep his hands off her. I don't know which way to lean on this one, the problem comes when both are drunk, how are you going to get consent then? And if both cry rape due to lack of consent who wins?


This is the problem, technicaly the guy can cry rape as well, although due to the laws of physics it may be a bit harder to prove.

I know there are many genuine cases of rape without force, so I want to make that clear. However there are also so many cases of genuine intercourse which ends up as rape even when it wasn't.

Rape without force is probably doing it when the other party is not aware of what is going on, usualy alseep.
Reply 11
He would be capable of it, yea - not necessarily do so with any great ability, but it is still the penetrative act which could see him in trouble.
Reply 12
high priestess fnord
if the guy was that drunk would he really be able to get it up?? but other than that i guess it should be the same.

i think that really is taking it too far though. i mean does the guy have to ask? "stop undoing my flies i need to ask u if u want sex" could be very funny and quite frustrating couldnt it?


I don't think its as much of a problem as most people make out actually. I think my sex drive actually increases when I'm pissed.

Plus it would ruin the flow of any romantic evening, say you'd just be on your 67th date and had been waiting for the rose-petal covered bed for months and months and then he asks you to "clearly state, as either a yes or no answer, whether you want sex" with him :p: .
Reply 13
blissy
As was the emphasis on the woman doing what she can to prevent being raped. I think it's fair to remind men of a way in which to avoid trouble, just like women have continually had it drummed into them.

I do agree, yes, but the method of advertising seems to be rooted around the statement "women dont know what they really want" But, normally - if a woman is trying to remove your clothes that is, in my eyes, a good proxy for being consenting.
Reply 14
blissy
As was the emphasis on the woman doing what she can to prevent being raped. I think it's fair to remind men of a way in which to avoid trouble, just like women have continually had it drummed into them.


The add goes too far though, it almost suggests written permision, even if the girl says says she can always deny it the next day.

Men shouldn't have sex with girls they know are drunk, that is asking for trouble but surely that is just common sense?
I knew a girl who was raped when she was drunk, and its not nice! Men should have enough self restraint to say, well, i dont know that she consents, so i wont screw her! The reasoning behind the clamping down, is that many men are claiming "she was drunk, its her fault" or "i didnt know she didnt say anything" well clearly she cant if shes too hammared to recall! I mean, think about it, how would you feel if you woke up in the morning and someone had had sex with you without your consent, knowledge or desire!

And then you get the guys who say "well, ye she was resisting, but i thought she just liked it a little rough, she never actually said no" I mean, unless you damn well know a little resistance is normal for her, then you damn well stop! Having done rape this year during criminal law and & justice in my law degree, there are loads of areas where its considered rape for a number of reasons, and rightly so! Men should take more care over whether or not a woman wishes to have consent. Is it that hard to say "are you ok with this?" five words, you can do it whilst pulling your boxers down! If the woman's too drunk to respond, then you shouldnt have sex with her! I hate this whole "well she was drunk so asking for it" or "what did she expect wearing THAT top"
Reply 16
I also think the advert is demeaning, to women especially and a bit crude (the one with the girl in a thong with the no entry sign plastered across it).
Reply 17
Casey
I don't think its as much of a problem as most people make out actually. I think my sex drive actually increases when I'm pissed.

Plus it would ruin the flow of any romantic evening, say you'd just be on your 67th date and had been waiting for the rose-petal covered bed for months and months and then he asks you to "clearly state, as either a yes or no answer, whether you want sex" with him :p: .


Which of course would be in the form of an official legal document:p:

I __________ agree to take part in sexual intercourse with __________ on __/__/_____ at __:__.

How romantic:biggrin:
Reply 18
The underlying problem seems to be that we're all getting more drunk and more promiscuous. We drink, lose our inhibitions, make sexual innuendo, end up in situations that would certainly not fit our morals in a sober state (e.g. shots off people's bodies, fully-clothed grinding with others etc). Some people are taking this as signs towards sexual intercourse, when really it's just misplaced and ill-judged playfulness. I think it's right to carefully consider consent when you put together alcohol, strangers and possible misunderstandings.
Reply 19
AT82
Men shouldn't have sex with girls they know are drunk, that is asking for trouble but surely that is just common sense?

I agree...but what if the man is drunk too?