New Curriculum for schools is coming.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-18384536
They've let Michael Gove out of his box again, but to my surprise, there are actually some good ideas:-
. Language will be compulsary from age 7 - although personally I think it should be compulsary from age 5 (as past 8 if my GCSE biology serves me correctly, learning new languages becomes more difficult) - although the choice of languages is hit and miss --> Mandarin, French, German, Spanish, Greek and Latin. The first 4 I can understand, with Mandarin and Spanish probably being the most important (since they might well become a language as big as English in the future, and so will be very important), but Latin and Greek? Why? One is a dead language, so has no real use, and the other I just can't see it being as useful as the others (bar latin) - so really here we've just got another Tory thing of "it was better in the olden days" approach, something which I personally feel, will fall on it's backside in an increasingle globalised and advancing world.
. Increasing focus on grammar and literacy - no problem here
. Learning and reciting poetry... come on... apart from possibly increasing kids vocabulary how is this going to do them any good? In my mind whenever you try and force school age kids to read (and then recite by heart at the front of the class) something you instantly turn them off it... just dont understand here. I suppose it depends what type of poetry to be honest, but as someone who's never been interested in it, and as someone who can't really see a use of it past personal enjoyment, I cant really see a use of it.
- one last thing actually (this is just a question from me) isn't one of the biggest things that we are worrying about in Britain is the low standard/low numbers of our Science and Maths skills? If that's the case why are we suddenly learning poetry?
They've let Michael Gove out of his box again, but to my surprise, there are actually some good ideas:-
. Language will be compulsary from age 7 - although personally I think it should be compulsary from age 5 (as past 8 if my GCSE biology serves me correctly, learning new languages becomes more difficult) - although the choice of languages is hit and miss --> Mandarin, French, German, Spanish, Greek and Latin. The first 4 I can understand, with Mandarin and Spanish probably being the most important (since they might well become a language as big as English in the future, and so will be very important), but Latin and Greek? Why? One is a dead language, so has no real use, and the other I just can't see it being as useful as the others (bar latin) - so really here we've just got another Tory thing of "it was better in the olden days" approach, something which I personally feel, will fall on it's backside in an increasingle globalised and advancing world.
. Increasing focus on grammar and literacy - no problem here
. Learning and reciting poetry... come on... apart from possibly increasing kids vocabulary how is this going to do them any good? In my mind whenever you try and force school age kids to read (and then recite by heart at the front of the class) something you instantly turn them off it... just dont understand here. I suppose it depends what type of poetry to be honest, but as someone who's never been interested in it, and as someone who can't really see a use of it past personal enjoyment, I cant really see a use of it.
- one last thing actually (this is just a question from me) isn't one of the biggest things that we are worrying about in Britain is the low standard/low numbers of our Science and Maths skills? If that's the case why are we suddenly learning poetry?
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Oh great, yet another curriculum with political parties trying to put their stamp on it without thinking about how it will affect education in the long term.
Latin and Greek, REALLY? Sounds like he is trying to enforce his private school background on the state system. Why isn't French, German, Russian and Arabic??!!!
Poetry? Don't even get me started, as long as you can read and write, have a good vocabularly and can form an argument you don't need to recite poetry.
The stupidity of politicians never ceases to amaze me!
Latin and Greek, REALLY? Sounds like he is trying to enforce his private school background on the state system. Why isn't French, German, Russian and Arabic??!!!
Poetry? Don't even get me started, as long as you can read and write, have a good vocabularly and can form an argument you don't need to recite poetry.
The stupidity of politicians never ceases to amaze me!
I don't know if you have to worry too much about greek and latin, how many people are qualified to teach them, and teach primary school kids?
I think the spelling and grammar thing is a good idea, but lots of kids hate poetry. I agree the focus should be more on maths in particular and science. Ok maths might not everyones cup of tea, but some teenagers numeracy skills are shocking!
I think the spelling and grammar thing is a good idea, but lots of kids hate poetry. I agree the focus should be more on maths in particular and science. Ok maths might not everyones cup of tea, but some teenagers numeracy skills are shocking!
Original post by patrickinator
Latin and Greek, REALLY? Sounds like he is trying to enforce his private school background
You mean the part of the education system which is more effective?
Original post by electriic_ink
You mean the part of the education system which is more effective?
How is it more effective? You can pay your school fees of tens of thousands of pounds every year but I will stick to having free education where spending per pupil is less than £800 but I will as good as grades as private schools. how is it more effective.
Personally, I think they should be focussing on science - when I was at primary school, we did hardly any science whatsoever, until year 6 when the teachers realised we had a SATs exam on the subject. Then, we just learned from the textbook. They should encourage more science trips and experiments, as these are the best way to get kids interested in science and so try hard at it.
Perhaps the government wants to improve literacy, and I would agree that there is definitely room for improvement... but reciting poetry!!! That's likely to put the kids off! Why not simply invest more money in school libraries and give them decent books to read? I had a great teacher in year 5 who specialised in English, so made us take two books from the school library each week and write reviews about them - great idea, except the school library was full of 'Biff and Chip' books and picture books! We ended up being given 'visit the public library' as homework!
Languages is a good idea - and as someone mentioned earlier, the lack of Latin and Greek teachers means that potentially more useful subjects such as Spanish, French, Chinese will be more popular. Children in other European countries learn modern foreign languages at a much younger age than us, and I know several who are fluent in English and one or even two other languages in their teens! In business/ most other future careers, kids will meet foreign people, and it's important to be able to understand them and trade.
Perhaps the government wants to improve literacy, and I would agree that there is definitely room for improvement... but reciting poetry!!! That's likely to put the kids off! Why not simply invest more money in school libraries and give them decent books to read? I had a great teacher in year 5 who specialised in English, so made us take two books from the school library each week and write reviews about them - great idea, except the school library was full of 'Biff and Chip' books and picture books! We ended up being given 'visit the public library' as homework!
Languages is a good idea - and as someone mentioned earlier, the lack of Latin and Greek teachers means that potentially more useful subjects such as Spanish, French, Chinese will be more popular. Children in other European countries learn modern foreign languages at a much younger age than us, and I know several who are fluent in English and one or even two other languages in their teens! In business/ most other future careers, kids will meet foreign people, and it's important to be able to understand them and trade.
Original post by patrickinator
How is it more effective? You can pay your school fees of tens of thousands of pounds every year but I will stick to having free education where spending per pupil is less than £800 but I will as good as grades as private schools. how is it more effective.
Spending per pupil in state schools is £6000. The reason public school fees are so much more than this is because the (de facto) state sector monopoly means it's only worthwhile for them to cater to the top end of the market.
Why are they stressing the importance of learning a foreign language when kids these days have yet to perfect the English language and continue to butcher it - lexically, syntactically and grammatically - on a daily basis?
This should be made into a plaque and hung at the back of foreign language classes:
“y being so long in the lowest form I gained an immense advantage over the cleverer boys. They all went on to learn Latin and Greek and splendid things like that. But I was taught English. We were considered such dunces that we could learn only English. Mr. Somervell -- a most delightful man, to whom my debt is great -- was charged with the duty of teaching the stupidest boys the most disregarded thing -- namely, to write mere English. He knew how to do it. He taught it as no one else has ever taught it. Not only did we learn English parsing thoroughly, but we also practised continually English analysis. . . Thus I got into my bones the essential structure of the ordinary British sentence -- which is a noble thing. And when in after years my schoolfellows who had won prizes and distinction for writing such beautiful Latin poetry and pithy Greek epigrams had to come down again to common English, to earn their living or make their way, I did not feel myself at any disadvantage. Naturally I am biased in favour of boys learning English. I would make them all learn English: and then I would let the clever ones learn Latin as an honour, and Greek as a treat. But the only thing I would whip them for would be not knowing English. I would whip them hard for that.”
― Winston S. Churchill
This should be made into a plaque and hung at the back of foreign language classes:
“y being so long in the lowest form I gained an immense advantage over the cleverer boys. They all went on to learn Latin and Greek and splendid things like that. But I was taught English. We were considered such dunces that we could learn only English. Mr. Somervell -- a most delightful man, to whom my debt is great -- was charged with the duty of teaching the stupidest boys the most disregarded thing -- namely, to write mere English. He knew how to do it. He taught it as no one else has ever taught it. Not only did we learn English parsing thoroughly, but we also practised continually English analysis. . . Thus I got into my bones the essential structure of the ordinary British sentence -- which is a noble thing. And when in after years my schoolfellows who had won prizes and distinction for writing such beautiful Latin poetry and pithy Greek epigrams had to come down again to common English, to earn their living or make their way, I did not feel myself at any disadvantage. Naturally I am biased in favour of boys learning English. I would make them all learn English: and then I would let the clever ones learn Latin as an honour, and Greek as a treat. But the only thing I would whip them for would be not knowing English. I would whip them hard for that.”
― Winston S. Churchill
Original post by Id and Ego seek
Why are they stressing the importance of learning a foreign language when kids these days have yet to perfect the English language and continue to butcher it - lexically, syntactically and grammatically - on a daily basis?
This should be made into a plaque and hung at the back of foreign language classes:
This should be made into a plaque and hung at the back of foreign language classes:
My thoughts exactly - why don't the government focus on making sure English is adequately taught before trying to teach modern foreign languages.
I teach kids English and some of the kids aged around 16 were using 'bruh, cuzz, casj' in their gcse work.
I don't blame them, I blame the education system.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by patrickinator
Oh great, yet another curriculum with political parties trying to put their stamp on it without thinking about how it will affect education in the long term.
Latin and Greek, REALLY? Sounds like he is trying to enforce his private school background on the state system. Why isn't French, German, Russian and Arabic??!!!
Poetry? Don't even get me started, as long as you can read and write, have a good vocabularly and can form an argument you don't need to recite poetry.
The stupidity of politicians never ceases to amaze me!
Latin and Greek, REALLY? Sounds like he is trying to enforce his private school background on the state system. Why isn't French, German, Russian and Arabic??!!!
Poetry? Don't even get me started, as long as you can read and write, have a good vocabularly and can form an argument you don't need to recite poetry.
The stupidity of politicians never ceases to amaze me!
Brilliant! My state education was utter ****e most of it going on about Mary Seacole and how racisms bad, etc. I would've loved to have had the chance to study the foundations of our western civilisation - greek and latin! I would have loved to be given the opportunity to learn more about history and how it makes us what we are (besides how slavery makes us racist).
Don't normally like tories, but this Gove chap has impressed me more than once.
Original post by Id and Ego seek
Why are they stressing the importance of learning a foreign language when kids these days have yet to perfect the English language and continue to butcher it - lexically, syntactically and grammatically - on a daily basis?
This should be made into a plaque and hung at the back of foreign language classes:
This should be made into a plaque and hung at the back of foreign language classes:
You can teach somebody perfect English in a classroom, but that does not stop them speaking like an illiterate fool outside of one. There are many reasons why that happens; the way English is taught is not the only one.
Original post by Id and Ego seek
Why are they stressing the importance of learning a foreign language when kids these days have yet to perfect the English language and continue to butcher it - lexically, syntactically and grammatically - on a daily basis?
This should be made into a plaque and hung at the back of foreign language classes:
This should be made into a plaque and hung at the back of foreign language classes:
False dichotomy.
Original post by fallenangel
My thoughts exactly - why don't the government focus on making sure english is adequately taught before trying to teach modern foreign languages.
I teach kids English and some of the age of kids aged 16 were using 'bruh, cuzz, casj' in they're gcse work.
I don't blame them, I blame the education system.
I teach kids English and some of the age of kids aged 16 were using 'bruh, cuzz, casj' in they're gcse work.
I don't blame them, I blame the education system.
I don't mean to be nasty, but I hope that when you wrote 'they're' instead of the correct word 'their' you actually made a mistake in typing, and that you do actually know the difference between 'they're' and 'their' (and 'there').
I never write back to people arguing or making a point, I just felt I had to here because you just said you teach kids English.
The problem with the language teaching in primary school is that kids will learn say French for a few years, get reasonably interested in it, then come to a secondary school where they're forced to learn Spanish from scratch and drop French, for example, completely negating the benefits of starting early. In other countries the default language to start with at a young age is English. Here, that's much more difficult as each language has different benefits. There needs to be a system in place to ensure continuity.
This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
Original post by Tahooper
Latin is a good language to learn because it makes learning other languages easier since most western languages derive from Latin.
I agree with your point on Greek though.
I agree with your point on Greek though.
Latin is also important for anyone entering the medical profession. Greek is probably encouraged because a preponderance of our historical archives is in Greek. Both are vital languages to advanced studies but they should probably be offered as electives after the children complete their primary education.
The trouble with teaching Latin and Greek is that parents and even some teachers will not see the merit in a modern society and will belittle it. This will undoubtedly have a negative impact upon the learning experience:
1) Teachers not in favour will rush the lessons or the lessons will not be stimulating /engaging enough to benefit the children.
2) If teachers do deliver exciting lessons, there will still be difficulty with getting children to engage with the subjects as negative opinions from parents / siblings will rub off on the pupils, which tends to be excerbated when the subjects are hard and require effort.
With our societies "modern mindset" the potential benefit that these subjects undoubtedly have, will be minimal at best.
1) Teachers not in favour will rush the lessons or the lessons will not be stimulating /engaging enough to benefit the children.
2) If teachers do deliver exciting lessons, there will still be difficulty with getting children to engage with the subjects as negative opinions from parents / siblings will rub off on the pupils, which tends to be excerbated when the subjects are hard and require effort.
With our societies "modern mindset" the potential benefit that these subjects undoubtedly have, will be minimal at best.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by electriic_ink
False dichotomy.
I'm not saying there's a causal link or there aren't other variables. Just compare what you learn at GCSE French in comparison to GCSE English Language, then compare it at A Level; English language should be treated like a foreign language academically in terms of content: we should be taught stylistic analysis, advanced grammar, underlying sentence structure (work of Chomsky and C.M. Street), punctuation and word choice, not what devices this advertiser has used to appeal to his target audience
This is why universities value modern foreign languages and ancient languages more highly than English and why English continues to be pejorative academically.
(edited 11 years ago)
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