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upping the ante for massbuilding (workouts)
afternoon fellas
question on here for the serious trainers
I've been training since January and had some gains, which I'm pleased with...although I accept its probably newbie gains. I've been getting used to the exercises and learning form etc, so I've scheduled my workout upgrade for teh Easter holidays.
What I'm looking to do is put together a workout full of compound and mass building exercises.
Firstly, what sort of split would you recommend? I'd like to do a 3 or 4 day split. I was thinking Back/Triceps/Delts; Chest/Biceps/Traps; Legs/Abs...but please make your suggestions with explanations why etc
Now onto the exercises - I was thinking of doing 3 exercises for each muscle group
BACK
- I want to focus on a couple of weightlifting lifts here....was thinking of doing Deadlifts for the lower back and Cleans for the upper back plus doing Pull Ups.
CHEST
- three exercises in mind here - Bench Press, incline DB press and DB flys
TRICEPS
- begin with cable pulldowns, then tricep dips....do you recommend skullcrushers or overhead DB extensions or close grip bench press for the third?
BICEPS
- bicep curls with an EZ (should I do them seated or standing?), chin ups, alternate hammer curls. Is there anything to be gained from doing 3 exercises here or would I make good gains from doing more sets of bicep curls and chins?
DELTOIDS
- military press, DB raises and lateral raises
TRAPS
- upright rows and....? this is a muscle group Im not too sure on so need some help! A fella in the gym told me that a good exercise here is to do pull ups but stopping the motion before I sink too far down, so that all the pull is permanently on the back of the shoulder blades not the lats.
LEGS
- warm them up with a couple of sets leg extensions and leg curls, then hit squats or the leg press hard. I feel like when I leg press I'm hitting my legs a lot harder, but then people say the squat will build more mass overall. Standing calf raises as well.
ABS
- I'm open minded here to peoples suggestions. I need some good lower ab exercises because my upper abs are much stronger and i need to focus training my lower abs.
So there you have it fellas - as I say this is in 'rough draft' phase...any help would be gratefully received
cheers
question on here for the serious trainers
I've been training since January and had some gains, which I'm pleased with...although I accept its probably newbie gains. I've been getting used to the exercises and learning form etc, so I've scheduled my workout upgrade for teh Easter holidays.
What I'm looking to do is put together a workout full of compound and mass building exercises.
Firstly, what sort of split would you recommend? I'd like to do a 3 or 4 day split. I was thinking Back/Triceps/Delts; Chest/Biceps/Traps; Legs/Abs...but please make your suggestions with explanations why etc
Now onto the exercises - I was thinking of doing 3 exercises for each muscle group
BACK
- I want to focus on a couple of weightlifting lifts here....was thinking of doing Deadlifts for the lower back and Cleans for the upper back plus doing Pull Ups.
CHEST
- three exercises in mind here - Bench Press, incline DB press and DB flys
TRICEPS
- begin with cable pulldowns, then tricep dips....do you recommend skullcrushers or overhead DB extensions or close grip bench press for the third?
BICEPS
- bicep curls with an EZ (should I do them seated or standing?), chin ups, alternate hammer curls. Is there anything to be gained from doing 3 exercises here or would I make good gains from doing more sets of bicep curls and chins?
DELTOIDS
- military press, DB raises and lateral raises
TRAPS
- upright rows and....? this is a muscle group Im not too sure on so need some help! A fella in the gym told me that a good exercise here is to do pull ups but stopping the motion before I sink too far down, so that all the pull is permanently on the back of the shoulder blades not the lats.
LEGS
- warm them up with a couple of sets leg extensions and leg curls, then hit squats or the leg press hard. I feel like when I leg press I'm hitting my legs a lot harder, but then people say the squat will build more mass overall. Standing calf raises as well.
ABS
- I'm open minded here to peoples suggestions. I need some good lower ab exercises because my upper abs are much stronger and i need to focus training my lower abs.
So there you have it fellas - as I say this is in 'rough draft' phase...any help would be gratefully received
cheers
Scroll to see replies
for the split: just use whatever works best for you and experiment, some ways just work better for some people. i'm not a fan of antagonist splits though.
for the exercises:
back - no access to lat pull down?
chest - sounds fine.
triceps - add skullcrushers, i'm pretty sure they were proven to provide the most muscle stimulation on all 3 heads.
biceps - its best to do curling the conventional way and standing really, EZ curling isn't as good, it takes a little stress off the bicep and more on the brachioradialis. concentration curls would be a good thing to add on too.
deltoids - sounds fine.
traps - get worked from various other exercises, but for isolation use shrugs.
abs - stimulated a lot already from using free weights, but leg raises are good for lower.
for the exercises:
back - no access to lat pull down?
chest - sounds fine.
triceps - add skullcrushers, i'm pretty sure they were proven to provide the most muscle stimulation on all 3 heads.
biceps - its best to do curling the conventional way and standing really, EZ curling isn't as good, it takes a little stress off the bicep and more on the brachioradialis. concentration curls would be a good thing to add on too.
deltoids - sounds fine.
traps - get worked from various other exercises, but for isolation use shrugs.
abs - stimulated a lot already from using free weights, but leg raises are good for lower.
cheers bis
yeah I do have access to lat pull down - although I'd read some stuff that the "behind the neck" lat pull down could cause injuries and you are better simulating the same movement as part of your pull up routine (ie pulling up to the back of your neck)
however I saw a bloke at the gym using the lat pull down with palms towards him, pulling down to the front of the chest, and tried that and I seem to really feel it on my lats (and forearms), so I will do that
another question for you bis, what do you think is the optimum for sets/reps
I like to work in sets of 8 reps, because that makes me use a weight which is quite challenging; do you think doing 10 sets for each muscle group is a good idea - eg for triceps, 3 sets cable pulldowns, 4 sets tricep dips, 3 sets skullcrushers
yeah I do have access to lat pull down - although I'd read some stuff that the "behind the neck" lat pull down could cause injuries and you are better simulating the same movement as part of your pull up routine (ie pulling up to the back of your neck)
however I saw a bloke at the gym using the lat pull down with palms towards him, pulling down to the front of the chest, and tried that and I seem to really feel it on my lats (and forearms), so I will do that
another question for you bis, what do you think is the optimum for sets/reps
I like to work in sets of 8 reps, because that makes me use a weight which is quite challenging; do you think doing 10 sets for each muscle group is a good idea - eg for triceps, 3 sets cable pulldowns, 4 sets tricep dips, 3 sets skullcrushers
Recommendation is 2 day between workouts. i vary between 2 or 3 depending on how much i have done previously. Some workouts warant long rest times.
Separate those muscles that work a secondary muscle so that they are far enough apart not to overtrain you. For example, do Chest Monday, triceps on Wednesdays, and shoulders Friday... and biceps Monday with chest, and back Wednesday or Friday
I prefer to stay clear of cable machines, as i feel that you are losing out from releasing the weights down, where free weights you have to control both movements.
I think you should add a few more sets of squats in there before a few of your other workouts, nothing to major,but thighs are very big muscles and need a bit more attention and are good for GH release.
Reps wise, anything over 12 you need to increase you weights.
8 is ment to be the optimum rep workout for gains, but that depends on what you want to acheive.
for instance you could do a workout like this
Week One is a power workout - Reps 4-6
Week Two is a strength workout - Reps 6-10
Week Three is an endurance workout - Reps 12-21
some people recommend doing 4-6 reps on 50% weight to give muscles a warm up after strecthing, followed by 8 reps on a weight which will allow you to only do 1 set, to the point where you cannot lift a single rep more.
i wouldnt start this straight away though, as you've only been training since january you get very quick gains, weight till you platue then change to this.
hope that helps.
Separate those muscles that work a secondary muscle so that they are far enough apart not to overtrain you. For example, do Chest Monday, triceps on Wednesdays, and shoulders Friday... and biceps Monday with chest, and back Wednesday or Friday
I prefer to stay clear of cable machines, as i feel that you are losing out from releasing the weights down, where free weights you have to control both movements.
I think you should add a few more sets of squats in there before a few of your other workouts, nothing to major,but thighs are very big muscles and need a bit more attention and are good for GH release.
Reps wise, anything over 12 you need to increase you weights.
8 is ment to be the optimum rep workout for gains, but that depends on what you want to acheive.
for instance you could do a workout like this
Week One is a power workout - Reps 4-6
Week Two is a strength workout - Reps 6-10
Week Three is an endurance workout - Reps 12-21
some people recommend doing 4-6 reps on 50% weight to give muscles a warm up after strecthing, followed by 8 reps on a weight which will allow you to only do 1 set, to the point where you cannot lift a single rep more.
i wouldnt start this straight away though, as you've only been training since january you get very quick gains, weight till you platue then change to this.
hope that helps.
If your just focusing on just compound movements & large increase in mass i'd do fewer exercsies and do a 5x5 routine focusing on the main lifts then all other stuff is accessory work
i.e. Main lifts: Squat, Bench(flat/inc), Deadlift/SLDL, Rows
Then include Pullups, Dips for accessory work and Military Press.
However if you just want to mix up your routine then i've got not much else to add. you have most of the main exercises. only that:
-Squats are the BEST lower body exercise. They should take priority over leg press
Maybe consider box squats.
-I would completely substitute upright rows for shrugs.
back-Lat pulldown is pretty much the converse of pullups so maybe try doing neutral grip for lat station. With Deadlifts alternate between conventional and SLDL(straight leg deadlift). Also definately do rows! - bent over rows, either with db or bb.
Wil
i.e. Main lifts: Squat, Bench(flat/inc), Deadlift/SLDL, Rows
Then include Pullups, Dips for accessory work and Military Press.
However if you just want to mix up your routine then i've got not much else to add. you have most of the main exercises. only that:
-Squats are the BEST lower body exercise. They should take priority over leg press
Maybe consider box squats.-I would completely substitute upright rows for shrugs.
back-Lat pulldown is pretty much the converse of pullups so maybe try doing neutral grip for lat station. With Deadlifts alternate between conventional and SLDL(straight leg deadlift). Also definately do rows! - bent over rows, either with db or bb.
Wil
My current rountine is:
Squats
Benchpress
Barbell Row
Upright Row
Abs/ Lowerback
All compound movements 5 sets, abs/Lb 2 sets
Repeated 3 times a week.
I used to isolate alot, but I don't have the time anymore, the gains I get from this are just as good and im in and out in an hour it might be worth doing some curls or skullcrushers once a week, but its not necessary. I can't stress how important it is to eat, you should be eating at every opportunity, if you aren't eating everytime your idle then your not eating enough.
Squats
Benchpress
Barbell Row
Upright Row
Abs/ Lowerback
All compound movements 5 sets, abs/Lb 2 sets
Repeated 3 times a week.
I used to isolate alot, but I don't have the time anymore, the gains I get from this are just as good and im in and out in an hour it might be worth doing some curls or skullcrushers once a week, but its not necessary. I can't stress how important it is to eat, you should be eating at every opportunity, if you aren't eating everytime your idle then your not eating enough.
I warn you against Mad_Monkey59's advice about eating. The ease with which different people gain weight varies considerably. Eating "as much as you can" etc may result in a suitable food intake for some, but for others with larger appetites it may lead to unneccessary fat gains.
Id second imasillynarb's idea, and remind you that each upper or lower workout need not be identical if you dont want them to be. You could for example in the lower workouts alternate focus on squats and deadlifts.
Id second imasillynarb's idea, and remind you that each upper or lower workout need not be identical if you dont want them to be. You could for example in the lower workouts alternate focus on squats and deadlifts.
rock_eleven
I warn you against Mad_Monkey59's advice about eating. The ease with which different people gain weight varies considerably. Eating "as much as you can" etc may result in a suitable food intake for some, but for others with larger appetites it may lead to unneccessary fat gains.
Id second imasillynarb's idea, and remind you that each upper or lower workout need not be identical if you dont want them to be. You could for example in the lower workouts alternate focus on squats and deadlifts.
Id second imasillynarb's idea, and remind you that each upper or lower workout need not be identical if you dont want them to be. You could for example in the lower workouts alternate focus on squats and deadlifts.
He didn't specify mass from lean mass.
The best way to mass building is through intake of calories, obviously on a 4-5 day split the calories need to be higher then what he is burning through both carrying the extra muscle and through his workouts, much higher infact. The height of this intake depends on your goals.
What I said was based on the assumption that he knew what to eat. If he eats 10 lean chicken breasts a day he's not going to get fat is he? Generally the rule is the more protein the better, and when on a bulk you can include carbs into the equation, and on a dirty bulk calories also. But again this depends on his goals... he only said mass building which for me means mass, not lean muscle.
cheers fellas regarding the eating I'm still not quite there yet but I'm getting better, I have got into the routine of eating 5/6 times a day and making sure I get protein sources in me at each meal.
I have put on some size but a little flab at the belly as well, I'm not overly stressed about this at the moment, my philosophy is to bulk up and pack on the size then I'll worry about extra cardio, carb cycling etc to trim down the belly
I have put on some size but a little flab at the belly as well, I'm not overly stressed about this at the moment, my philosophy is to bulk up and pack on the size then I'll worry about extra cardio, carb cycling etc to trim down the belly
imasillynarb
calories in > calories out = fat gain.
Whether it be 10 chicken breasts or 10 chocolate bars.
Whether it be 10 chicken breasts or 10 chocolate bars.
No offence but that completely wrong.
Calories, carbs, protein, and fats are very different.
Calorie is a measurement of energy. Sugar for instance has lots of calories, but if all you ate only sugar you would put zero weight on.
A chocolate bar may contain 200 calories but no protein, where as a piece of chicken contains 200 calories but 50grams of protein.
Eat lots of carbohydrates that are found in rice, pasta and bread that will give you a slow release of energy during the day. At the same time chicken and fish will give you the protein for your muscles to repair and grow.
Make sure you get at least 2700 calories a day, but those calories should contain minimal satured fats. e.g lard, oil. fat etc etc.
Use low saturated fats, such as olive oil, vegetable oil, and margarine.
2700 calories a day isnt going to put on much mass, I was aiming for 3500-4000 at least!
imasillynarb
Yes, of course you were, look forward to having a nice big belly if you're eating 3500-4000cals a day.
mmm I assume he's on a bulk cycle.
imasillynarb
Thanks for the lecture, but its not completely wrong. Eat more calories than you burn, you will put on weight.
im not gona argue with you, because u clearly arent going to look up any facts here. If you eat more calories than you burn yes you will put on weight ONLY if that is followed with unsaturated fats and protein, the best way to achieve this is by useful carbs. You will use the carbs before the protein and fats, thus not needing to break them down into energy.
However your statement wasnt completely correct, because if you ate nothing but sugar or coca cola or mars bars, ud have nothing but useless energy and you cant turn that into fat.
Eating a bag of sugar a day will put 0 mass on.
feel free to try it if you want diabetes.
MagicNMedicine
2700 calories a day isnt going to put on much mass, I was aiming for 3500-4000 at least!
Aim for around 3000, but make sure that consists of around 350gm of protein per day. stay away from anything thats not unsaturated fat, and eat a large amount of carbs from rice, pasta and bread. Chicken, nuts and most fishes are best to provide you with some good calories, and protein.
You really are shocking dude, you don't have a fkin clue what you're talkin about, if you ate nothing but mars bars all day I would be pulling to bet my house on the fact that you would put on weight, what exactly do you think sugar is? Some sort of pixie dust which your body doesn't use? Its a carbohydrate and after your liver and muscle glycogen stores are full, it'll be converted into fatty acids.
Why should you eat 350grams of protein per day, and stay away from saturated fat, by the way?
Why should you eat 350grams of protein per day, and stay away from saturated fat, by the way?
yeah I am on a bulk cycle, albeit my first one
I'm naturally skinny so realistically just eating maintenance isnt going to do anything for me
I thought most people consumed about 2500 a day anyway, so 3000 would just give you a 500 calorie surplus (what I'm looking for to gain weight) even through being inactive....if you are working out regularly then surely you need to up your fuel intake.
And yes I do eat healthy stuff, no crap. Only thing I'm questioning at the moment is my exact intake of carbs which I am trying to keep quite high (ie very large portions of rice). I do eat protein sources 5/6 times through the day
I'm naturally skinny so realistically just eating maintenance isnt going to do anything for me
I thought most people consumed about 2500 a day anyway, so 3000 would just give you a 500 calorie surplus (what I'm looking for to gain weight) even through being inactive....if you are working out regularly then surely you need to up your fuel intake.
And yes I do eat healthy stuff, no crap. Only thing I'm questioning at the moment is my exact intake of carbs which I am trying to keep quite high (ie very large portions of rice). I do eat protein sources 5/6 times through the day
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