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    (Original post by ZJuwelH)
    It's a vocational thing. It's a skill, not an education.
    So how hell are you supposed to learn how to get the skill in the first place? This what universities are for, its so clear you have no idea about how operating systems work or anything.

    You could argue that chemestry is a skill and therefor is not worthy of university education, or even medicine. With computing you have to study things just like medicine and chemstry. You can't just learn it on the job.
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    (Original post by bono)
    If you get above CCC in A-Levels, then i would say you are good enough to go to a reasonable, resepctable university.
    Are you? By getting CCC, are you one of the academic elite? Nope, they are a dime a dozen. So should you be in a university? Nope but you should be able to do well with three good A-Levels. Sadly you can't do that these days because of the overproduction of graduates.
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    (Original post by amazingtrade)
    Yeah but if you study say Golf Management at say a local FE college everybody knows its not going to have the same worth as ecomenics at LSE so I don't see what the problem is, they are hardly going to effect the best graduates. Also as for funding the worst universities get very little funding anyway.
    Exactly, that's the point I've been making.
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    (Original post by happysunshine)
    I think it's *******s saying we have enough money to finance clever students if we don't allow less intelligent students to go to university. It's very likely that these people aren't going to finish education and go straight into a job, a lot would like more training (which again costs money). Also where do you draw the line, CCC? I don't know the exact figures but I do know at least half studying A-Levels must get this and over.

    And if people don't make the grades it is likely that some will carry on studying until they do.
    Well according to the BBC only 25% of people get 3 A level at any grade. Remember there are loads of colleges such as the one I attended where EEE was the average grade achieved by their students.
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    (Original post by ZJuwelH)
    It's a vocational thing. It's a skill, not an education.
    Isn't immediately obvious to me how it is any more vocational than, say, law.
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    (Original post by ZJuwelH)
    It's a vocational thing. It's a skill, not an education.
    How on earth is A-Level Computing, a respected A-Level alongisde Maths, Physics etc and Cambridge degree in Computer Science (which is a lot of programming), vocational and not educational? :confused:
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    (Original post by happysunshine)
    Exactly, that's the point I've been making.
    hehe I am glad some people understand this
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    (Original post by amazingtrade)
    So how hell are you supposed to learn how to get the skill in the first place? This what universities are for, its so clear you have no idea about how operating systems work or anything.
    Does it matter to me how the thing works? Has it anything to do with the point?

    (Original post by amazingtrade)
    You could argue that chemestry is a skill and therefor is not worthy of university education, or even medicine. With computing you have to study things just like medicine and chemstry. You can't just learn it on the job.
    No. Those are about the acquisition of knowledge. And then applying the knowledge. Not practising a skill.
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    (Original post by ZJuwelH)
    Does it matter to me how the thing works? Has it anything to do with the point?



    No. Those are about the acquisition of knowledge. And then applying the knowledge. Not practising a skill.
    But in order to even begin to start developing an operating system you have to have deep understanding of electrics, physics etc, maths there is no difference between this and old fashioned subjects.

    Programming involves practise yes, but so does being s surgoen. You have to have the theory before you can apply the practise.
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    (Original post by amazingtrade)
    Well according to the BBC only 25% of people get 3 A level at any grade. Remember there are loads of colleges such as the one I attended where EEE was the average grade achieved by their students.
    EEE, now that is bad.

    I assume that at least 50% of those who want to enter university are CCC+, although this could be very wrong. I just don't see where you can make the cut backs.
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    (Original post by ZJuwelH)
    Are you? By getting CCC, are you one of the academic elite? Nope, they are a dime a dozen. So should you be in a university? Nope but you should be able to do well with three good A-Levels. Sadly you can't do that these days because of the overproduction of graduates.
    I think it would be unfair to deny people to go to university if they got CCC at A-Level.

    Personally, I think this would be adequate to go to a reasonable university.

    If you lift the barriers too high, then education no longer becomes as enticing an option as it could be - Encouraging people to become educated is the best way forward.

    I agree that certain standards should be enforced, but CCC are reasonable grades.

    It isn't good to deter people from education to such a great extent.
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    (Original post by bono)
    I think it would be unfair to deny people to go to university if they got CCC at A-Level.

    Personally, I think this would be adequate to go to a reasonable university.

    If you lift the barriers too high, then education no longer becomes as enticing an option as it could be - Encouraging people to become educated is the best way forward.

    I agree that certain standards should be enforced, but CCC are reasonable grades.

    It isn't good to deter people from education to such a greate extent.
    Bono people like you, happysunshine etc are great because you get good grades but you still remain level headed. Some people it seems to go straight to their heads and they think anything less than what they got is not valid.
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    (Original post by happysunshine)
    EEE, now that is bad.

    I assume that at least 50% of those who want to enter university are CCC+, although this could be very wrong. I just don't see where you can make the cut backs.
    I am not sure what the average is it but I am guessing it is around 220/240 points. which is CCC. It may be a tad lower I'm not sure.

    The problem is I think is people that go to university just because what it is what their mates are doing. If you want to study a subject even if it is golf management and you have the grades then I don't see why people should not be allowed that chance. I do think if they mess the first year up they should be chucked out though.
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    (Original post by amazingtrade)
    Bono people like you, happysunshine etc are great because you get good grades but you still remain level headed. Some people it seems to go straight to their heads and they think anything less than what they got is not valid.
    Thank you It's so stupid to say cut places down = less to pay for the most intelligent! People don't realise: IT COSTS MONEY TO EDUCATE, whether it be a degree or HND!
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    (Original post by amazingtrade)
    Bono people like you, happysunshine etc are great because you get good grades but you still remain level headed. Some people it seems to go straight to their heads and they think anything less than what they got is not valid.
    Wow, thanks.

    Yes, I don't think that people with reasonable A-Level grades should be denied a chance at university.

    It also has to be considered that university is not just merely a degree/education - It is also a social experience and often university is the best years of someone's life.

    It seems that if a person with CCC missed out on a chance to go to uni because for example, BBB was the barrier (too high) I imagine, then this would be unfair.

    Setting the barrier too high will only enforce the ideology of education becoming a less viable option for the average student - This surely is not good.
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    (Original post by amazingtrade)
    I am not sure what the average is it but I am guessing it is around 220/240 points. which is CCC. It may be a tad lower I'm not sure.

    The problem is I think is people that go to university just because what it is what their mates are doing. If you want to study a subject even if it is golf management and you have the grades then I don't see why people should not be allowed that chance. I do think if they mess the first year up they should be chucked out though.
    Well if golf management will help people earn more money and providing they are of a reasonable intelligence, then like you I have no objection. Yup, time/money wasters is not what we want.
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    (Original post by piginapoke)
    Depends who you talk to. I've worked in places where the 'coders' were considered akin to manual labourers, and the designers considered themselves on the intellectual high ground. Which was just because they were rubbish coders.
    Well yes, but you know what my point is...
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    (Original post by piginapoke)
    Depends who you talk to. I've worked in places where the 'coders' were considered akin to manual labourers, and the designers considered themselves on the intellectual high ground. Which was just because they were rubbish coders.
    There is different level of jobs, coders are slightly manaualy in the sense all the logic has been done for them, for a development level you do need university educaton. Not just because of the academic stuff but because of the transferable skills you learn. I don't know any none grauduates with a sucessful career in I.T.Oh actually I know one but he was a cambridge chemstry dropout from the early 80's.
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    (Original post by piginapoke)
    Computing is about much much more than programming. Its a complete science.
    Yes, it is a well respected degree.

    A lot of Mathematics and Physics required, along with the technical information about a computer/how it operates needing to be acquired.
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    I didn't pick specifically on computing did I.

    I just believe that people should go to university to pursue their learning and education if they are able, that should be the primary motive. Not simply to end up with a good job or related job. Call me a fogey but that's what I believe university is about.
 
 
 

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