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    [FONT=comic sans ms][COLOR=darkred]Anarchy in the UK what do you think
    oh and keep away if you know FCUK all bout it cus I will not be nice.
    And if there is anyone specialy interested in ythis topic of conversation then let me know.
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    (Original post by Anarchy Heaven)
    [FONT=comic sans ms][COLOR=darkred]Anarchy in the UK what do you think
    oh and keep away if you know FCUK all bout it cus I will not be nice.
    And if there is anyone specialy interested in ythis topic of conversation then let me know.
    I wouldnt say that there is anarchy in the uk at the moment, but i can see why people think thats the direction where we are heading
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    look im not here to discuss that im here to educate you people on why society is so corrupted and why every1 seem to moan but still get on with ther lives when government makes a **** decision.
    i know that there is a better place because i have seen it but it is not something anywhere can achive in minutes hours day months or a few years.
    Because we are so deeply inbedded in our political and socilogical views we fail to see all the wrongs and if immediat effective there was no government the country would dissolve in to chaos not anarchy because they are seperate things
    i belive to achive compleate independance from goverment and a comp[leatly anarchaic society it would take mabye up to 500 years because people will have to adjust to all the removals of law rules socilogical viws ectect.
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    (Original post by Anarchy Heaven)
    look im not here to discuss that im here to educate you people on why society is so corrupted and why every1 seem to moan but still get on with ther lives when government makes a **** decision.
    i know that there is a better place because i have seen it but it is not something anywhere can achive in minutes hours day months or a few years.
    Because we are so deeply inbedded in our political and socilogical views we fail to see all the wrongs and if immediat effective there was no government the country would dissolve in to chaos not anarchy because they are seperate things
    i belive to achive compleate independance from goverment and a comp[leatly anarchaic society it would take mabye up to 500 years because people will have to adjust to all the removals of law rules socilogical viws ectect.
    educate me, have you written an essay or a book?
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    No and i dont godamn well need to just because you say that how you educate people i can educate by dooin this and discussing with people what they think and feel bout MY topic and mabye i will learn something so i would hope you would have better respect for me so how old are you and where are you from and WTF do you know boout anarchy cus if you know more than i do and you can honestly say you belive in the system and tel me its right then good for you but if not dont godamn well preach to me bout writing books and essays
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    Must say on current evidence I'm embarrassed to share the same political views as you.
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    (Original post by llama boy)
    Must say on current evidence I'm embarrassed to share the same political views as you.
    u a leftie?
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    that's certainly the implication, yes.
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    The problem with anarchy is the fact that it is human nature to be organised, heirachised (is this a word?) and follow trends. Beneath any order is chaos, but give people chaos and they make it into order again. Anarchy sounds good, but think how long it would take for counter revolutions to spring up, reinstating governments and order.
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    organisation can exist without hierarchy.

    anarchism is against the latter, most anarchists are for the former.
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    (Original post by llama boy)
    organisation can exist without hierarchy.
    It can, but without hierachy there is no abition, thus no imrovement, thus stagnentation of society. This leads to vunerability and disetlement. A society not moving will soon be destroyed by new developments it isn't ready for. Therefore a society without hierachy is a dieing one.
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    (Original post by pal_sch)
    It can, but without hierachy there is no abition, thus no imrovement, thus stagnentation of society. This leads to vunerability and disetlement. A society not moving will soon be destroyed by new developments it isn't ready for. Therefore a society without hierachy is a dieing one.
    I'm afraid I'm not really sure what you mean by a lot of these concepts.

    Are you saying it is impossible for human beings to improve without bossing other human beings around?
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    (Original post by llama boy)
    I'm afraid I'm not really sure what you mean by a lot of these concepts.

    Are you saying it is impossible for human beings to improve without bossing other human beings around?
    No, you need something to aspire to in order to want to improve. If you see no need for improvement, then why bother? And even if you did try to improve, if you weren't in a position of any power then how do you get people to listen to your ideas? Without the concept of hierachy there is no way for improvements to happen and the society will weaken.

    Next come the one that killed communism. If you have decided you need a group of people who can make these decisions, then how do you keep them under control? You need even more people who have power. But then you have the same problem. What you end up with is a disconected head that no longer is concerned with the people, but they are more interested in themselfs and their power.

    Fortunatly in our society the government is large enough, and accessable enough, for it to be kept under control by the few people who actualy want to use their power to help the country. It is in countrys where the power is held by small groups of people who can control who can join them carefuly that there are real problems. To them stability represents power. In a faster society like ours, the inderviduals have to keep changing to keep in the running, and thus there is further disruption. Our government works by being seemingly simple, but truly chaotic.
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    (Original post by pal_sch)
    No, you need something to aspire to in order to want to improve. If you see no need for improvement, then why bother? And even if you did try to improve, if you weren't in a position of any power then how do you get people to listen to your ideas? Without the concept of hierarchy there is no way for improvements to happen and the society will weaken.
    You get people to listen to your ideas by explaining them to them! The only thing anarchism would take away would be the ability to coerce other to your ideas.

    You're implying, without basis, that improvement cannot be reached through co-operation. Not only is this not true, but in many ways people can ONLY improve through co-operation. Hierarchy is what is holding people down, making them do anything but improve themselves.

    Next come the one that killed communism. If you have decided you need a group of people who can make these decisions, then how do you keep them under control? You need even more people who have power. But then you have the same problem. What you end up with is a disconnected head that no longer is concerned with the people, but they are more interested in themselfs and their power.
    Sorry, I really don't get what you're talking about. When did I say "you need a group of people who can make these decisions"? In fact, isn't that hierarchy, pretty much exactly what anarchism is against? You still haven't understood the difference between hierarchy and autonomous organisation.
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    (Original post by llama boy)
    Sorry, I really don't get what you're talking about. When did I say "you need a group of people who can make these decisions"? In fact, isn't that hierarchy, pretty much exactly what anarchism is against? You still haven't understood the difference between hierarchy and autonomous organisation.
    If you do get people who know more or have more or different skills than others, wouldn't they be rewarded? They would gain power, power few would be willing to relenqulish.

    I admit I may be wrong, I hope I am, but everything from history and society points that way. Still, I sugest an experiment. Something like big brother only without the tasks or outside interaction. Put 100 people on an island with no power structure, no political leanings and no outside influence. Come back in 5 years. My guess is there will be a well defined heirchy.
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    (Original post by pal_sch)
    The problem with anarchy is the fact that it is human nature to be organised, heirachised (is this a word?) and follow trends. Beneath any order is chaos, but give people chaos and they make it into order again. Anarchy sounds good, but think how long it would take for counter revolutions to spring up, reinstating governments and order.
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    (Original post by Anarchy Heaven)
    No and i dont godamn well need to just because you say that how you educate people i can educate by dooin this and discussing with people what they think and feel bout MY topic and mabye i will learn something so i would hope you would have better respect for me so how old are you and where are you from and WTF do you know boout anarchy cus if you know more than i do and you can honestly say you belive in the system and tel me its right then good for you but if not dont godamn well preach to me bout writing books and essays
    Yes. You don't need a conformist education like the rest of us. Why, the way we conformists use things like punctuation and sophisticated grammar. This is because we are conformists and you are a unique individual with something important to teach. Either that or some retarded 16 year old who likes throwing bricks.
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    (Original post by pal_sch)
    If you do get people who know more or have more or different skills than others, wouldn't they be rewarded? They would gain power, power few would be willing to relenqulish.

    I admit I may be wrong, I hope I am, but everything from history and society points that way. Still, I sugest an experiment. Something like big brother only without the tasks or outside interaction. Put 100 people on an island with no power structure, no political leanings and no outside influence. Come back in 5 years. My guess is there will be a well defined heirchy.
    My guess is at least 30 would be slaves to 20 or less and those first to attain power will monopolise it. This assumes these are people with no previous social background or education.
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    The goverment is terrible but i doubt it's going to fall and disorder/lawlessness will ever happen here in almost perfect London.
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    If we're talking government and not punk bands Nozich the Political Philosopher wrote a interesting rejection of anarchy in his book anarchy state and utopia.
 
 
 
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