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    (Original post by TheWolf)
    totally
    I'll let the other ones go but I will be deleting anything else that I think is meaningless spam to boost post count (not including the Harry Potter thread )!!!
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    (Original post by Gnostic)
    The solution is simple - bring in an A* grade for A-level.
    And when the top 15 uni have stuennts with 3 A*'s applying?!? This is much the same as Labours current delay tactic...
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    (Original post by Leekey)
    I agree that gaining entry to any of the top 15 uni's is a tremendous achivement but I think that the fact that you need to get AAA-AAB to do it will mean that uni's slighly below them will get an influx of candidate with grades like AAB-ABB. Surely if this continues we will have a situation where AAA is almost the standard for the top 15 and you will need at least ABB to get you into the top 40. Im still seeing the entrance exams as the way forward!!!
    No. Intelligence restrictions will cap such a scenario. As long as exams remain at the same standard the number of AAA-AAB candidates will not rocket into the top 40. If you think about it logically, peoples achievements are capped by their intelligence. I know a lot of people that work really hard and never expect to achieve more than CCC. In most state schools under 60% of sixth formers achieve CCC. This may increase slightly as teaching methods improve and external factors become more favourable but it will never serge.

    I think having a clear distinction in our education system with a Top 15 with all AAA-AAB candidates will be a good thing. It may bring some value back to degrees and respect back to our education system. As harsh as it sounds, top candidates should be in top universities and in top jobs. If the top 15 universities have enough places to cater for all the top candidates then it's great. It puts us where we should be. The most able will be competing with each other from the so called 'higher class' of uni's and everyone else will be left to compete with people of their equal achievement. I know it sounds bad but i honestly believe that if you are clever and achieving the best grades then you deserve a place in one of the best universities and to get a degree that counts for more. It's only fair.

    With regards to entrance exams i think they would be useful to place the 'best' candidates in the G5 universities much as they are used now.

    Just my opinion.
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    (Original post by Leekey)
    And when the top 15 uni have stuennts with 3 A*'s applying?!? This is much the same as Labours current delay tactic...
    yea i seriously think that 3as wont help as the boundarise of as is is high already? (leekey dont delete this!)
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    Just to add: i think having an elite top 15 with candidates all of similar standard would reduce this scramble for places in places like Warwick and Nottingham and any candidate in the top 15 could rest assured that their degree is of a high value and well respected. They would be on an equal footing with candidates of similar ability. It would focus education more on achievement from these places rather than the institution that the degree has come from - everyone knows that their will never be enough places in the G5 for *all* the best candidates.
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    (Original post by Econ)
    No. Intelligence restrictions will cap such a scenario. As long as exams remain at the same standard the number of AAA-AAB candidates will not rocket into the top 40. If you think about it logically, peoples achievements are capped by their intelligence. I know a lot of people that work really hard and never expect to achieve more than CCC. In most state schools under 60% of sixth formers achieve CCC. This may increase slightly as teaching methods improve and external factors become more favourable but it will never serge.

    I think having a clear distinction in our education system with a Top 15 with all AAA-AAB candidates will be a good thing. It may bring some value back to degrees and respect back to our education system. As harsh as it sounds, top candidates should be in top universities and in top jobs. If the top 15 universities have enough places to cater for all the top candidates then it's great. It puts us where we should be. The most able will be competing with each other from the so called 'higher class' of uni's and everyone else will be left to compete with people of their equal achievement. I know it sounds bad but i honestly believe that if you are clever and achieving the best grades then you deserve a place in one of the best universities and to get a degree that counts for more. It's only fair.

    With regards to entrance exams i think they would be useful to place the 'best' candidates in the G5 universities much as they are used now.

    Just my opinion.
    Totally agree that the best candidates should be the ones in the top 15 uni's but I think that the problem comes when you have so many applicants with AAA-ABB that there are not enough places at these uni's. This may mean that possibly thousands of our brightest candidates are overlooked by the more elite institutions. As for intelligence being a cap on the results that you can achieve, I think that you are correct to some extent but I think that in some circumstances under the current system, a good memory and truck-loads of revision will see you to an A grade in many subjects. It is this kind of qualification by memory that I would like to see scrapped. Possibly a system similar to the IB would help this happen?!?
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    (Original post by Leekey)
    Totally agree that the best candidates should be the ones in the top 15 uni's but I think that the problem comes when you have so many applicants with AAA-ABB that there are not enough places at these uni's. This may mean that possibly thousands of our brightest candidates are overlooked by the more elite institutions. As for intelligence being a cap on the results that you can achieve, I think that you are correct to some extent but I think that in some circumstances under the current system, a good memory and truck-loads of revision will see you to an A grade in many subjects. It is this kind of qualification by memory that I would like to see scrapped. Possibly a system similar to the IB would help this happen?!?
    I agree to the most extent but still maintain that an elite top 15 would be a good thing and it should be encouraged not discouraged by the government.
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    (Original post by Econ)
    Just to add: i think having an elite top 15 with candidates all of similar standard would reduce this scramble for places in places like Warwick and Nottingham and any candidate in the top 15 could rest assured that their degree is of a high value and well respected. They would be on an equal footing with candidates of similar ability. It would focus education more on achievement from these places rather than the institution that the degree has come from - everyone knows that their will never be enough places in the G5 for *all* the best candidates.
    Totally agree, I think it is important for us to have a strong group of "premier league" universities such as Notts, York, Manchester, Bath, Warwick, Loughborough, King's, Bristol etc... all of whom produce highy quality graduates all of whom are comparable to each other!!!
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    Leekey - My suggestion of a paper which measures 'raw' intelligence was as an adjunct to A levels, not instead of. If you have the results of this paper to enter on UCAS application along with predicted grades then regardless of how intelligent you are, if that is not matched with top grades at A level you are not accepted!

    gnostic - your suggestion of limiting assessment of A* grade A level is a good one. This would mean that the grade would not be awarded on how much you know, rather what the standard is like across the particular year group, i.e. only top 10% would get A*. It does have flaws, mainly that the non- award of A* will be challenged on appeal by students who know their subject well and question the legality of standardisation of marks ('norm' referenced rather than 'criterion' referenced.) This could create a multitude of problems for the examining boards particularly as they now have to send any contentious papers back to the examining centres if requested.
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    Leekey - My suggestion of a paper which measures 'raw' intelligence was as an adjunct to A levels, not instead of. If you have the results of this paper to enter on UCAS application along with predicted grades then regardless of how intelligent you are, if that is not matched with top grades at A level you are not accepted!
    Im thinking that we have just solved Labours problem in less than and hour when its taken them well over a year to screw up any hope of findinag a solution!!!
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    (Original post by Leekey)
    Im thinking that we have just solved Labours problem in less than and hour when its taken them well over a year to screw up any hope of findinag a solution!!!
    Yeah - Shame they don't have 'headhunters' on these forums who could snap us up as policy advisers with a salary of £500,000 pa! (In our dreams)
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    Leekey - My suggestion of a paper which measures 'raw' intelligence was as an adjunct to A levels, not instead of. If you have the results of this paper to enter on UCAS application along with predicted grades then regardless of how intelligent you are, if that is not matched with top grades at A level you are not accepted!
    Surely that system wouldn't stop the gap emerging between the top 15 and the rest of the british universities. It would just serve to distinguish the truly top candidates who get admitted into the G5 - anyone with 3 A's in academic subjects will be fairly clever and end up in the top 15. Unless universities started placing preference on intelligence tests over A'level grades i can't see that it would help much. If preference was placed on them and BBB candidates with high test scores were being taken over AAA-AAB candidates with low test scores then in would render A'levels worthless.
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    (Original post by need_help)
    Surely that system wouldn't stop the gap emerging between the top 15 and the rest of the british universities. It would just serve to distinguish the truly top candidates who get admitted into the G5 - anyone with 3 A's in academic subjects will be fairly clever and end up in the top 15. Unless universities started placing preference on intelligence tests over A'level grades i can't see that it would help much. If preference was placed on them and BBB candidates with high test scores were being taken over AAA-AAB candidates with low test scores then in would render A'levels worthless.
    Go back to your original observation of the question and then see why I answered as I did.
    You said that due to the increasing numbers of students obtaining top grades in A levels, there was not enough room for them at the unis you refer to as G5 (altho' I don't necessarily agree that they are 'the best' for every subject). This has a knock-on effect of relegating them to the next 10 best, altho' I can't see a problem with that as these unis are more than adequate at providing an exemplary education as well.
    Now, if the criteria of top grades at A level is insufficient to ajudge who is the 'higher flyer' then you need a supplementary exam to weed out those whose results are the outcome of intensive teaching from those whose results are the outcome of independent learning, i.e. aptitude and application. The most objective measure imo is a test of 'raw' intelligence. This, coupled with top grade A levels is a better indicator of potential than just the A level grades.
    I would empthasise that top A level grades in addition to a high score in raw intelligence testing proves that the applicant is not only highly able but also applies themselves to the work ethic.
    Unis would not be using one measure in favour of another but rather they would have access to both, so your scenario of top A level grades versus lower grades with higher IQ would not arise.
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    (Original post by TheWolf)
    ahh you are right in fact im just applying to 3 of the G5
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    The problem is that the examiners setting a threshold standard for a A grade at A-Level, and all the candidates that surpass that threshold will obtain an A. If, instead, the A-grade was achieved by the top 10% of Candidates sitting that paper in that time period, then it would be easy for the G5 to discern the top candidates.

    Alternatively they should interview, sometimes the most intelligent people don't do well at exams. Exams are becoming increasingly 'fact memorising' these days, surely intelligence is how you apply your knowledge? I know that basic knowledge is function, but real application of knowledge is not tested in these A-Level papers.

    This is what people mean by grade inflation: I did no work for my biology AS, my teacher set no homework yet I somehow scraped an A, and I'm quite happy to say that in a fair system I really shouldn't have got that A.
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    Everybody should do the IB, then we would see some lovely discrimination. In the IB the AAA type pupil would score at least 37-39 points. Thsi leaves plenty of room to mark yourself out from the crowd, as the IB marks up to 45. Only 70 or so people in the world achieved that this year. Lets see Oxbride turn sum1 down who gets that! Then there will be no more "I got AAAAAAA, and Oxford told me to jump off a cliff".
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    Or introduce the german system (for those who know it, the bavarian/baden-wurttemberg one)...
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    this may have been asked before but whats teh G5? or rather i know which unis are in it..but why is it called that?
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    (Original post by presebjenada)
    this may have been asked before but whats teh G5? or rather i know which unis are in it..but why is it called that?
    http://www.uk-learning.net/t29763.html
 
 
 
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