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tbf since 2009 it has always been clear who is the better player of the two, but there's still that illusion of an eye-to-eye rivalry in the general public, which a world cup would put to rest once and for all.

Btw, some papers reporting Ribery finished second above Messi. Can't wait for the Bayern outcry.

Would it?

I think Argentina are favourites to win the world cup (their group is incredibly easy, they're next door to the host and they have the best striker force ever). Whilst Ronaldo has been to the finals/semi's of the Euro's, it is almost impossible for Portugal to win the world cup, heck Ronaldo had to qualify them. So is it fair to say Messi>Ronaldo because Argentina>Portugal? No it isn't.

Therefore, I'd say if Portugal win the world-cup, then it puts the debate to rest. If Argentina wins the world-cup, then whilst it is a super achievement, it's nothing short of expected.

If you reply, can we avoid the Messi vs Ronaldo debate? I'm just pointing out that Argentina should win the world cup, whereas Portugal shouldn't.

-----

What a goal by Messi :redface:

If I was a Getafe defender, I would've just tripped him up. It wouldn't have been a red card as there were so many defenders.

Reply 3341

username310124

Original post by Manchester United

If I was a Getafe defender, I would've just tripped him up. It wouldn't have been a red card as there were so many defenders.

Argentina aren't favourites, what are smoking?

They're 4th favourites at best and have a fragile defence.

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Reply 3342

bj27

Original post by CB91

Argentina aren't favourites, what are smoking?

They're 4th favourites at best and have a fragile defence.

Posted from TSR Mobile

He just tried to make an argument as to how Ronaldo can be undisputed best of this generation, then says to avoid a Ronaldo-Messi debate. How convenient.

I think it's crack. Anyway I thought United had the title this season and were gonna pulverise Chelsea's defence at old trafford?

Reply 3343

Malevolent

He looks a little more solidly built in a muscular way now. He always looked stocky until lately.

Reply 3344

Vae

Original post by Manchester United

If I was a Getafe defender, I would've just tripped him up. It wouldn't have been a red card as there were so many defenders.

WC-related stuff (although I'm sure that that wasn't your main concern): I think it's fair to say Brazil are favourites. They aren't the best team but have home advantage, which nowhere pays off as much as in Brazil and on top of that, they've got a number of quality players that can make the difference (most notably Neymar). After that, I'd say Germany, who have the best overall team and depth, so they could field 2 entirely different starting XI without a drop in quality - but their manager tends to tactically slip up when it matters, also, they'll struggle with the climate. After that (or perhaps on par) Spain, for obvious reasons - they have bolstered up their squad with Costa etc but seem to have lost their edge and will struggle with the climate. Argentina have perhaps the greatest attack with Messi, Higuain, Agüero and Di Maria and they won't struggle with the climate, but their midfield movement isn't amazing, their defence is weak, and they will have the home crowd against them like no other team (Argentina - Brazil rivalry). Thus, I'd place them fourth, perhaps third - even with the climate on their side I can see the likes of Brazil/Spain/Germany eat up their defence. Looking at the schedule, Argentina (if everything goes as expected) will face Spain in the semis and Germany or Brazil in the final. I don't think that will be a walk in the park for them.

You misunderstood my point though. "Messi the best of all time if he wins a world cup" is not my personal opinion, but an argument that is commonly brought up in the public. I was merely quoting it. (Note: I go a bit further into what I meant in the rest of my post. I don't mean to engage in a Messi v CR debate, so don't read it that way. The points you might consider 'juicy' are mostly quotes from the public (even though I agree with them :beard:

.)

As for that argument about world cup being any kind of indicator: Of course that's wrong. Where a footballer comes from doesn't determine his quality, so the world cup shouldn't either - otherwise, it would be bitterly unfair for players like Ibrahimovic, Bale etc who have all the odds not only against them ever winning something, but even qualifying. People who use the world cup as a measurement of quality are stuck in the past, as back in the day the world cup was the biggest and most highly regarded football competition there was. Nowadays, I think the Champions League should be considered more important - simply because of its high quality.

I, however, was simply referring to the fact that numerous pundits have said over the years that Messi could eclipse Pele and Maradone and be regarded the best player of all time IF he won a world cup, among them people like Beckenbauer, Wenger, Beckham, Matthäus, Ronaldo (Brazilian one), Rummenigge, Pele himself, Ibrahimovic, Gerd Müller, Klinsmann... It is a common argument in the public. Messi? Great, but he hasn't won a world cup.

Ronaldo doesn't get that sort of discussion, not because he plays for Portugal, but because he's not considered as good by the general football public and those influential people I named. Right now, there isn't really a debate among those; the Messi or CR debate is led mostly by fans. Messi is widely considered to be among the 3 best players in history by many 'experts', Ronaldo istn't. Whether we think that's fair or not is up to you and me. Apart from personal taste, many pundits like to argue with trophies and it's hard for CR to eclipse Messi on that front (we've been waiting for la decima for what, a decade?). Thus, a world cup win for him would not settle the (serious, non-internet) discussion, it would start it, as it would, for the first time in his career, give many a legitimate cause for believing in an eye-to-eye rilvalry between the two of them.

Edit: Typo galore

____

I don't remember any game where tripping Messi up stopped him, bar that Ramos attack in 2010, but it would be an insult to Ramos' wrestling skills to call that "tripping him up".

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 3345

Manchester United

Original post by Malevolent

"back to you Cristiano " :wink:

Neymars injury took the shine off that though, both of them just can't seem to stay fit to play with each other :lol:

https://vine.co/v/hlnhIw2722h

"Back to you Messi" :wink:

Reply 3346

mrmicrosoft

Original post by Manchester United

https://vine.co/v/hlnhIw2722h

"Back to you Messi" :wink:

This video pretty much sums up that goal though:

Reply 3347

Malevolent

Original post by Manchester United

https://vine.co/v/hlnhIw2722h

"Back to you Messi" :wink:

not as good as Messi's goal haha :lol:

Reply 3348

Vae

Original post by Manchester United

https://vine.co/v/hlnhIw2722h

"Back to you Messi" :wink:

Amazing goal tbf.

As for that "back to you" thing, it's 4 goals in 455 minutes vs 4 goals in 165. No real competition. :colonhash:

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 3349

Existentialgrad

I wish La Liga was a bit more competitive. Real Betis are a decent sized club and to see them get humiliated at home makes me rather despondent at the lack of competition in the league.

The top three teams are of course all excellent teams, but Atletico Madrid aside, the gap between the big two and the rest gets wider each season. Atletico won't be able to keep up with the big two long term either.

Very dull.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 3350

bj27

Original post by Malevolent

"back to you Cristiano " :wink:

Neymars injury took the shine off that though, both of them just can't seem to stay fit to play with each other :lol:

You see Cristianos goal?

Reply 3351

Malevolent

Original post by bammy jastard 27

You see Cristianos goal?

Yup great goal.

Bales free kick was super as well. Tempted to say Bale might be the best free kick taker in the world.

Reply 3352

username310124

Original post by Malevolent

Yup great goal.

Bales free kick was super as well. Tempted to say Bale might be the best free kick taker in the world.

Please dont start this. One free kick doesnt mean anything, if he starts doing it regularly, maybe.

Reply 3353

baconbutty

Original post by CB91

Please dont start this. One free kick doesnt mean anything, if he starts doing it regularly, maybe.

He does do it regularly

Reply 3354

Malevolent

Original post by CB91

Please dont start this. One free kick doesnt mean anything, if he starts doing it regularly, maybe.

Don't jump to conclusions that I'm on about just the most recent free kicks. He's been doing it for a while and his conversion rate is extremely high.

Reply 3355

bj27

I don't actually know who the best free kick taker in the world is.

Pirlo maybe? don't really watch them. Juninho and nakamura would kick their asses in a free kick contest though.

Reply 3356

Vae

Reus now linked with Barcelona as well according to some rumours in Dortmund.

:u:

Love it how every season Barcelona 'plans' to sign 3-4 players and in the end nobody is coming, except for Neymar but that saga had dragged on for years.

With 2-3 players/retiring, signings are desperately needed though. Hopefully Tata won't pull a Tito on that front. Dani Alves probably won't be renewed and might be sold, Tello is likely to be sold, Puyol is likely to retire, Valdes will leave. Montoya will probably take Alves' place but then a back up RB is needed. CB has been needed for years. Deulofeu could take Tello's place, but then again, it's not even sure that he returns this summer.

Meanwhile, Gündogan rumours appear to be quite real based on what I've heard from Dortmund. If he leaves, seems like he'd prefer Barcelona. It all depends on whether Martino will go for him - in 2010, Özil was a done deal as well weren't it for Pep deciding against it. No matter what you think of that decision, it provided RM with a real talent and, more importantly, team player in midfield - Barcelona should look to avoid the same happening with Gündogan.
Reus - rumours go that he has a pre agreement with Barcelona, but even if that is true, Dortmund is never going to sell him this summer. Also, as much as I like him, I'm against raiding Dortmund.
CB - Laporte seems a good choice but he's expensive, also, Arsenal etc are after him as well. Knowing Zubi, I guess he will be the only target. Or Thiago Silva again? :colondollar:

GK - ter Stegen seems a done deal. The rest depends on Pinto renewing. If he doesn't, I guess Reina will come.

Then again, if history is anything to go by, ter Stegen might turn out to be the only one joining.

Reply 3357

Malevolent

Original post by qua

Reus now linked with Barcelona as well according to some rumours in Dortmund.

:u:

Every year like you said we're linked with 3-4 players but we get 1 :lol:

No doubt though we have to spend this summer. Too many departures and holes that will be there to not spend. It wouldn't surprise me if we get 2-3 big signings. Don't really think Reus is needed as much as I like him unless Pedro goes. Id say we need a CM, CB, RB and GK before we even think about signing a winger.

Reply 3358

Existentialgrad

So how many will Barcelona beat Levante by today do you reckon? 0-4, 0-5?

Boring league.

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Reply 3359

Vae

Original post by Malevolent

Every year like you said we're linked with 3-4 players but we get 1 :lol:

Yeah, Reus isn't needed (and it would be awful for Dortmund to lose another player). Even if Pedro leaves, I'd put trust in Deulofeu - he has all it takes to start alongside Messi and Neymar and judging from the past, loaning younger players out for more than one season doesn't necessarily benefit them or Barca; they need to be integrated early on, Cesc's struggle to adapt in the last two seasons shows how difficult it is to get back in once you're out for a longer period of time.
Deulofeu could be a starter for any years to come and I think he's ready to be eased in on that spot. Not to mention there's still Alexis, who's in amazing form.

Gündogan makes a lot of sense, not only as a replacement for Xavi (until Samper is ready) but also considering Mascherano as a DM option might leave and Song just isn't good enough to be rotated with Busquets.

So ter Stegen and Gündogan/other CM, a low-profile CB (as I'd pick Bartra/Pique as the first-choice pairing) and a low-profile RB. I just hope the rumours about Luiz are false :s-smilie:

I don't trust Zubi but as it stands, all of Valdes, Mascherano, Song, Alves and Puyol might leave/retire. They will have to bring someone in. I'm all for it too, renewing certain positions is long overdue.