Are Grammar Schools Actually Any Better?

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That One Kid
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Ok, so I go to a grammar school, and although it may be true that on average the students are better, I've got a feeling that non-grammar schools get similar if not better results with their top end pupils. For example, my schoolhad 10/150 students get all A/A* at GCSE and 8/150 pupils get all A/A* at A2 last year. surely a lot of non grammars get similar stats at the top end? Am I right?
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JackHodg
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I dunno where you'd really find out those statistics but I go to school in a town with a grammar school and a comprehensive. Everyone who doesn't get into the grammar school goes to the comprehensive. This happened with me. I hope I'm not trolling but I'm the best student in my year in terms of grades (got the medal and everything ) and I feel that when I do my A-Levels at the grammar school in September, I'm gonna be one of the best and brightest. As in every teacher at my school says you're not at a great advantage going to a grammar school and at taster days I've been the brightest there. I suppose that those who are intelligent want to make the most of it and work hard and when you put the effort in, your surroundings don't make too much difference. But this is in terms of GCSEs, I've no experience of A-levels so...


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JackHodg
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Oh and like those 8/150 I'm on track for 12 A/A*s. would be VERY happy to get that at A2s :L


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That One Kid
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(Original post by JackHodg)
Oh and like those 8/150 I'm on track for 12 A/A*s. would be VERY happy to get that at A2s :L


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Yeah, same here but it just seemed to me that in my school half the people are getting all Bs and Cs, surely this is not dissimilar to comprehensives!!
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Graceyyyyyyy
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There's a grammar school near to me and they get phenomenal results. The state schools are very good too but they're not really comparable to the grammar so I'd say yes.
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milienhaus
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My grammar school was much better than the nearby comprehensives - it was very unusual for people to get below B's at GCSE.
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+ polarity -
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I think their main export is a very strange sense of humour.
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Mr Einstein
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I don't think so. Speaking from personal experience you still get the idiots there, but there are far fewer of them than at the average comp. That is why they seem to get better results not better quality of teaching or the like.

That's just from my experience though, and my sample size is 1.
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chrissy dee
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grammar makes you work harder, but maybe thinking your the best makes ppl forget others are working even harder in standard schools just to get ahead, i would prefer starting grammar at 6th form because you wpuld've worked hard to get there and the work ethic will benifit you for a levels.
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perrytheplatypus
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I used to think all grammer schools were better but now no longer do.

I got into one at sixth form, didn't find the teaching very good, and moved back to a comprehensive, which had a much better calibre of teachers...at least in the subjects I was taking. You can't simply use exam results as a guide - since grammer schools choose their intake, of course they get better results.

An average grammer probably has better teachers than an average comprehensive if you were to look at all the subjects as a whole. Good teachers are like rare gems in some comps.
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ellieHA
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The grammar school I go to seems better than the comprehensives but I think it's more down to the individuals. Grammar schools select the academically more adept to start with whereas comprehensives have a whole mix of people. Some people might be grammar school material but not get in to a grammar school (they're ridiculously competitive now) and instead go to a comprehensive and work hard and get the same kind of grades they would have done anyway.

Teachers being better is a point that has already been made but my school has more experienced teachers than the comprehensives nearby which can't hurt.
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social outcast
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I think a lot of grammar get gcse results that are fairly average in comparison to there intake but they work on other things like enrichment different subject etc.
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Imcomingforyou
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Yes, grammar schools are better than state schools, let me explain:

1. In grammar schools, the students themselves take school/education seriously, coming from someone that goes to the 5th worst school in the borough (out of 27), about 1/6 of the students here actually know what GCSE stands for, first of all and secondly life without higher education has become routine for them to even consider the thought of going to university, therefore nobody really cares about education.
2. As a result of my first point, students don't give two ****s about lessons and don't consider the ones that actually want to have an education, half of lessons are spent with students ****ing about and just being *****es to teachers. The teachers have also become used to this behaviour and they don't push students any more and just aim for the bare minimum (C).
3. The last time I was given homework was in year 8 (going into sixth form now), after year 8 teachers know that the majority of students don't give two ****s about homework and they just don't assign them any more, along with homework, students are in no way whatsoever encouraged to do work outside of school.
4. With state schools, they care more about their students on D's trying to get C's than their students on A's trying to get A*'s, therefore the smart students are practically neglected and when the teachers themselves aren't pushing the students, the students themselves lose self confidence and belief and therefore think that an A is fine for them when they can full well get an A*.
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tory88
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I went to a grammar school, and do believe that, at least where I live, there is a significant advantage. Grammar schools tend to have more traditional teachers, teach more traditional subjects and have less disruptive behavior overall. I stayed on for the sixth form, and some of my friends joined from comprehensives, they went from being the brightest in their school to being a middling student at the sixth form, with some of them struggling to keep up. In contrast, my closest friend came from a private school, and he went from being a middling student there to a top student at my sixth form. Now as I say this may be an isolated experience, but from the evidence I have I would say it was fairly clear that grammar schools are better than comprehensives (to use the thread title, I don't particularly like the wording). As an aside, I wouldn't send my children to most comprehensives, whereas I would to grammar or private schools.
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callum9999
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(Original post by Imcomingforyou)
Yes, grammar schools are better than state schools, let me explain:

1. In grammar schools, the students themselves take school/education seriously, coming from someone that goes to the 5th worst school in the borough (out of 27), about 1/6 of the students here actually know what GCSE stands for, first of all and secondly life without higher education has become routine for them to even consider the thought of going to university, therefore nobody really cares about education.
2. As a result of my first point, students don't give two ****s about lessons and don't consider the ones that actually want to have an education, half of lessons are spent with students ****ing about and just being *****es to teachers. The teachers have also become used to this behaviour and they don't push students any more and just aim for the bare minimum (C).
3. The last time I was given homework was in year 8 (going into sixth form now), after year 8 teachers know that the majority of students don't give two ****s about homework and they just don't assign them any more, along with homework, students are in no way whatsoever encouraged to do work outside of school.
4. With state schools, they care more about their students on D's trying to get C's than their students on A's trying to get A*'s, therefore the smart students are practically neglected and when the teachers themselves aren't pushing the students, the students themselves lose self confidence and belief and therefore think that an A is fine for them when they can full well get an A*.
1. Some do, many don't.

2. Plenty of comprehensives don't "only aim for the bare minimum" - several outshine grammar schools.

3. Virtually every comprehensive gives out homework just like grammar schools.

4. Grammar schools are state schools. And not really, no. Most comprehensives will have some form of setting. And any decent comprehensive would teach the whole class, not just those doing badly.

I went to a grammar school, but I think it's blatantly obvious that it depends on the school itself - not merely the selection process aged 11... A good grammar school can easily outperform a bad comprehensive, a good comprehensive can easily outperform a bad grammar school. Especially as grammar schools get less funding than comprehensive schools (in my county anyway). Again just in my school, the A* students were in the same classes as the D students (excluding languages, maths and science) yet the A* students still managed to get A*s. It has nothing to do with it being a grammar school, it's just that the teachers are decent (as they are in many comprehensive schools).

You clearly just have a warped perception of the education system as you've seemingly based it all on your awful school.
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Imcomingforyou
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(Original post by callum9999)
1. Some do, many don't.

2. Plenty of comprehensives don't "only aim for the bare minimum" - several outshine grammar schools.

3. Virtually every comprehensive gives out homework just like grammar schools.

4. Grammar schools are state schools. And not really, no. Most comprehensives will have some form of setting. And any decent comprehensive would teach the whole class, not just those doing badly.

I went to a grammar school, but I think it's blatantly obvious that it depends on the school itself - not merely the selection process aged 11... A good grammar school can easily outperform a bad comprehensive, a good comprehensive can easily outperform a bad grammar school. Especially as grammar schools get less funding than comprehensive schools (in my county anyway). Again just in my school, the A* students were in the same classes as the D students (excluding languages, maths and science) yet the A* students still managed to get A*s. It has nothing to do with it being a grammar school, it's just that the teachers are decent (as they are in many comprehensive schools).

You clearly just have a warped perception of the education system as you've seemingly based it all on your awful school.
You haven't seen the comprehensive schools in Peckham/Brixton, thats where I'm basing my argument.
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callum9999
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(Original post by Imcomingforyou)
You haven't seen the comprehensive schools in Peckham/Brixton, thats where I'm basing my argument.
So your argument about the national education system is based on the schools in 2 London boroughs? And you see no issues with that?
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CJKay
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I went to a fairly low-calibre state secondary school with no grammar schools in the local region. The range of grades we got there went from the worst grades at state schools with nearby grammar schools to the best grades of grammar schools with nearby state schools. I believe that if you instead had only a single grammar school in a region, it would perform only as well as if you had a single state school in the region.

I don't think the quality of teaching or enthusiasm is all that different. Just that, because they get to choose their student intake, they tend to get the best students. Like I said, we got some people with UUUU and about 5 of my year succeeded in applying to Oxford alone - never mind other Russel Group universities.
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gonnabesomething
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(Original post by Imcomingforyou)
Yes, grammar schools are better than state schools, let me explain:

1. In grammar schools, the students themselves take school/education seriously, coming from someone that goes to the 5th worst school in the borough (out of 27), about 1/6 of the students here actually know what GCSE stands for, first of all and secondly life without higher education has become routine for them to even consider the thought of going to university, therefore nobody really cares about education.
2. As a result of my first point, students don't give two ****s about lessons and don't consider the ones that actually want to have an education, half of lessons are spent with students ****ing about and just being *****es to teachers. The teachers have also become used to this behaviour and they don't push students any more and just aim for the bare minimum (C).
3. The last time I was given homework was in year 8 (going into sixth form now), after year 8 teachers know that the majority of students don't give two ****s about homework and they just don't assign them any more, along with homework, students are in no way whatsoever encouraged to do work outside of school.
4. With state schools, they care more about their students on D's trying to get C's than their students on A's trying to get A*'s, therefore the smart students are practically neglected and when the teachers themselves aren't pushing the students, the students themselves lose self confidence and belief and therefore think that an A is fine for them when they can full well get an A*.
That's all true for GCSE but even in state schools up and down the country, those who do A-levels do them because they want to. GCSEs are COMPLETELY different. You do them because you have to; the government forces you to do them. The ones that go onto A-levels generally want to do well and are willing to put the effort in. The one's who come out with lower grades are normally people who actually struggled; yes, you still do get the odd ****, but they're far far fewer in number. No one does A-levels to get a D or in most cases even a C. At GCSE, even many bright kids don't put the effort in, why? Because GCSEs mean nothing unless you're going for Oxbridge, competitive courses at the high end unis or Dentistry/Medicine/Law.

So I'd say Grammar Schools are beneficial for GCSE, but at A-level, the gap is much narrower and some top state Sixth Forms in Surrey and Hampshire often outperform Grammar Schools.
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shorttstuff
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I think they are as seen in league tables and GCSE/A-level results as a whole but on individuals it really depends. I go to a grammar school and there are 8 in total around my area and in leagues tables they are constantly above comprehensives. Yet the grades I achieved was due to the teaching and not because I was truely amazingly clever and was in a grammar school - there will always be people that are generally clever and go to comprehensive schools.
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