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Russian or Italian?
I'm currently at a gap year/resitting A level exams sort of stage and because I messed up last year I re-applied to university this year for a variety of courses, and am now finding it hard to choose between them.
I have effectively unconditional offers for both "French and Russian" and "French and Italian", from UCL, and think I'd really enjoy studying both of them. I have French A level, but would be doing the other language from scratch. I also have A levels in Latin and German, so I think the Italian makes sense in that it would continue my interest in European languages and cultures and would tie in nicely with French because there is a certain amount of crossover, especially if you're interested in things like the Renaissance (which I am). But Russian would sort of demonstrate that I can do more unusual languages rather than being stuck in the Latin-based Western Europe stuff (obviously it's still related, but not as closely as Italian). I think Italian would be easier to learn, as a language, so I'd have more time/energy to concentrate on all the cultural aspects of the course. But Russian seems like more of a challenge - I don't think I'd ever get bored! They seem fairly comparable in terms of what there actually is to study - I'm interested in literature, art, film, etc., so both rather appeal. Both currently have rather obnoxious (in my view) political regimes. Russia is a bit cold and far away, while Italy is sunny and warm and beautiful - but then, I always have France, and Italy seems a bit touristy in a way that Russia doesn't. Russia, because it's so vast, seems to have more variety, but then if I'm concentrating on learning the language (and spending half my time doing French), would I feel that I didn't have time to explore all the different aspects of Russian? French seems to have closer ties with Italian than Russian - they're in the same building at UCL, whereas Russian is part of SSEES and in a different building and things, which means you do get an extra library and another community to be part of and everything, but would I feel that I didn't really belong to either department?
I went to interviews for both, and found the Russian one more exciting - the interviewers were more challenging and seemed more interested in me, but then that's only a couple of members of staff out of however many, so that's probably not what I ought to base my decision on. Similarly, the other applicants at the Russian seemed more interesting - the Italian ones were mostly ten-a-penny student types, whereas the Russian lot were more individual. But again, quite a small sample.
I don't really know what I want to do post-university, most of the generic humanities careers appeal to me (stuff like journalism, publishing, law, museum work, further study, etc.), and I don't think it'll make much difference whether I do Russian or Italian.
Obviously this is my decision and no one can tell me what would be best for me, but I'm just trying to get as many different viewpoints as possible to help me decide. So, any answers?
I have effectively unconditional offers for both "French and Russian" and "French and Italian", from UCL, and think I'd really enjoy studying both of them. I have French A level, but would be doing the other language from scratch. I also have A levels in Latin and German, so I think the Italian makes sense in that it would continue my interest in European languages and cultures and would tie in nicely with French because there is a certain amount of crossover, especially if you're interested in things like the Renaissance (which I am). But Russian would sort of demonstrate that I can do more unusual languages rather than being stuck in the Latin-based Western Europe stuff (obviously it's still related, but not as closely as Italian). I think Italian would be easier to learn, as a language, so I'd have more time/energy to concentrate on all the cultural aspects of the course. But Russian seems like more of a challenge - I don't think I'd ever get bored! They seem fairly comparable in terms of what there actually is to study - I'm interested in literature, art, film, etc., so both rather appeal. Both currently have rather obnoxious (in my view) political regimes. Russia is a bit cold and far away, while Italy is sunny and warm and beautiful - but then, I always have France, and Italy seems a bit touristy in a way that Russia doesn't. Russia, because it's so vast, seems to have more variety, but then if I'm concentrating on learning the language (and spending half my time doing French), would I feel that I didn't have time to explore all the different aspects of Russian? French seems to have closer ties with Italian than Russian - they're in the same building at UCL, whereas Russian is part of SSEES and in a different building and things, which means you do get an extra library and another community to be part of and everything, but would I feel that I didn't really belong to either department?
I went to interviews for both, and found the Russian one more exciting - the interviewers were more challenging and seemed more interested in me, but then that's only a couple of members of staff out of however many, so that's probably not what I ought to base my decision on. Similarly, the other applicants at the Russian seemed more interesting - the Italian ones were mostly ten-a-penny student types, whereas the Russian lot were more individual. But again, quite a small sample.
I don't really know what I want to do post-university, most of the generic humanities careers appeal to me (stuff like journalism, publishing, law, museum work, further study, etc.), and I don't think it'll make much difference whether I do Russian or Italian.
Obviously this is my decision and no one can tell me what would be best for me, but I'm just trying to get as many different viewpoints as possible to help me decide. So, any answers?
It seems to me like your heart is telling you to do Russian, but your head is telling you to do Italian. Sorry if that sounded really cheesey, but from what you've said, you'd enjoy the challenge of learning a completely different language with more variety and you were more inspired by the tutors and students, but you're put off by thinking that it will be too hard, it wouldn't fit as well with French, the country wouldn't be as nice a place to visit and you wouldn't like being part of 2 departments. Russian will be more challenging, but with A-levels in French, German and Latin, you obviously have a gift for languages and you seem genuinely interested in Russian, so it will be easier to motivate yourself to work. It would give you a bit of variety and a more uncommon language to make you more employable. You said yourself Russia was less touristy than Italy, which is good, and that studying in 2 departments would let you meet more people. Also, Italian would be really easy to teach yourself with a knowledge of French and Latin, whereas Russian is a language where university really would be the best place to learn. Whichever one you go for, I'm sure you'll have a great time and have no problems getting a good job afterwards. Good luck deciding!
I'd advise you to take Russian, on the grounds that you'd be making a better use of your time studying, and the resources put at your disposal by UCL.
Italian would certainly be easier to learn given your knowledge of French, which would make the hefty burden of learning vocabulary considerably lighter. You can probably understand at least 50% of an Italian website or newspaper as it is - just check - and as you're also clearly a competent linguist, you could pick it on the side with the 'Teach Yourself' series, 'Da Capo', and some books to read that interest you. This is what I'm trying to do. I learned some Russian last vacation, but without doing regular practice it slipped quite quickly; the only languages I can speak are English and French, neither of which is as heavily inflected as Russian, and whilst I've studied Latin I lack the ability to marshall such syntax myself, and have only a passive understanding. I assume you'll be the same unless you did lots of prose / verse composition at A-level, which is unlikely. I couldn't engrain Russian syntax in the time I gave to it; nevertheless, the grammar works similarly to Latin and German (of which I know a little) - once you get over the alphabet, which you need to learn in both printed and handwritten forms, you find it's not quite as 'exotic' as it might immediately appear.
The point to extract from that previous paragraph is that you're perfectly equipped to learn Italian by yourself if you wish, but are also very well prepared to tackle Russian. I'd love to continue with the latter, but can't find the time necessary to approach it seriously or consistently; with Italian, the French and Latin that I know provides a sufficient basis to make autodidacticism a reasonable posibility alongside everything else I want to do. I did actually have a friend's mother to help teach me Russian, so wasn't unsupported, but even then, the fact that a large amount of it was entirely new meant it would take a lot of work to reach a solid 'base' level. The vocabulary especially proved difficult. I could probably have got on faster if I'd just attempted to learn to read, though that's a primary rather than sole objective.
Clearly, if you take an Italian course you'll reach a higher standard than you could on your own with some textbooks, except - perhaps - in reading, which you can do whenever you want. You'll probably find more opportunities to practise Italian than Russian, and make up any shortcomings, as speakers in UK universities are much more common. Going to Italy is also much cheaper. If you take Russian, then you'll be able to get through the trying first stages because you'll have tonnes of time to work on it and faculty support. Since I assume tuition fees will be the same for both courses, then Russian in this way seems much better value for money, as you're paying for a far rarer service. Essentially: why pay for something that you could manage to do yourself without much difficulty?
You will, of course, have to study literature (and history / philosophy?) in whichever language you choose, so perhaps should think twice about taking Russian if you passionately loathe Tolstoy or plays about women staring out of windows. I won't attempt to pit one nation against the other in terms of culture since both interest me, and anything I have to say on the matter would be uselessly subjective. I do hope my experiences in trying to learn both the languages have been useful, though.
Italian would certainly be easier to learn given your knowledge of French, which would make the hefty burden of learning vocabulary considerably lighter. You can probably understand at least 50% of an Italian website or newspaper as it is - just check - and as you're also clearly a competent linguist, you could pick it on the side with the 'Teach Yourself' series, 'Da Capo', and some books to read that interest you. This is what I'm trying to do. I learned some Russian last vacation, but without doing regular practice it slipped quite quickly; the only languages I can speak are English and French, neither of which is as heavily inflected as Russian, and whilst I've studied Latin I lack the ability to marshall such syntax myself, and have only a passive understanding. I assume you'll be the same unless you did lots of prose / verse composition at A-level, which is unlikely. I couldn't engrain Russian syntax in the time I gave to it; nevertheless, the grammar works similarly to Latin and German (of which I know a little) - once you get over the alphabet, which you need to learn in both printed and handwritten forms, you find it's not quite as 'exotic' as it might immediately appear.
The point to extract from that previous paragraph is that you're perfectly equipped to learn Italian by yourself if you wish, but are also very well prepared to tackle Russian. I'd love to continue with the latter, but can't find the time necessary to approach it seriously or consistently; with Italian, the French and Latin that I know provides a sufficient basis to make autodidacticism a reasonable posibility alongside everything else I want to do. I did actually have a friend's mother to help teach me Russian, so wasn't unsupported, but even then, the fact that a large amount of it was entirely new meant it would take a lot of work to reach a solid 'base' level. The vocabulary especially proved difficult. I could probably have got on faster if I'd just attempted to learn to read, though that's a primary rather than sole objective.
Clearly, if you take an Italian course you'll reach a higher standard than you could on your own with some textbooks, except - perhaps - in reading, which you can do whenever you want. You'll probably find more opportunities to practise Italian than Russian, and make up any shortcomings, as speakers in UK universities are much more common. Going to Italy is also much cheaper. If you take Russian, then you'll be able to get through the trying first stages because you'll have tonnes of time to work on it and faculty support. Since I assume tuition fees will be the same for both courses, then Russian in this way seems much better value for money, as you're paying for a far rarer service. Essentially: why pay for something that you could manage to do yourself without much difficulty?
You will, of course, have to study literature (and history / philosophy?) in whichever language you choose, so perhaps should think twice about taking Russian if you passionately loathe Tolstoy or plays about women staring out of windows. I won't attempt to pit one nation against the other in terms of culture since both interest me, and anything I have to say on the matter would be uselessly subjective. I do hope my experiences in trying to learn both the languages have been useful, though.
I'd go for Russian, as its so different and the similarities between French, Italian and Latin are so many you might prefer a bit of a change?
For a challenge Russia would probably be better for you as has been said Italian is similar to French and especially Latin.
I'd do Russian but again like Ludvine I'm biased
For a challenge Russia would probably be better for you as has been said Italian is similar to French and especially Latin.
I'd do Russian but again like Ludvine I'm biased
Hi Madelyn! As many other people on this thread know, I'm biased in favour of Russian, so will just give you some facts.
Russian speakers are in much higher demand than Italian ones are. Not only is Russia an up-and-coming country, Italy is rather going the opposite way (not a great economy, dodgy politics as you said, etc) and Italian language graduates are much more plentiful than Russian graduates. If diplomacy could be an option, definitely go for Russian (Britain doesn't need much in the way of diplomacy with Italy nowadays). Both languages would be suitable for the humanities careers, but Russian more so in my opinion due the massive number of Russian speakers (it's the most spoken language after Chinese, Spanish and English).
One of the main reasons that the study of Russian language, literature, culture etc appeals to me is that it is different. We're all so used to the Western European culture, especially us European language learners, that it would be nice to see thins from a different view. I've studied and read about the cultures of Western Europe a fair bit, so while I want to continue studying Spanish, I'd also like to study Russian, if only to keep myself on my toes
Russian speakers are in much higher demand than Italian ones are. Not only is Russia an up-and-coming country, Italy is rather going the opposite way (not a great economy, dodgy politics as you said, etc) and Italian language graduates are much more plentiful than Russian graduates. If diplomacy could be an option, definitely go for Russian (Britain doesn't need much in the way of diplomacy with Italy nowadays). Both languages would be suitable for the humanities careers, but Russian more so in my opinion due the massive number of Russian speakers (it's the most spoken language after Chinese, Spanish and English).
One of the main reasons that the study of Russian language, literature, culture etc appeals to me is that it is different. We're all so used to the Western European culture, especially us European language learners, that it would be nice to see thins from a different view. I've studied and read about the cultures of Western Europe a fair bit, so while I want to continue studying Spanish, I'd also like to study Russian, if only to keep myself on my toes
Italian smell?!
Hehe! I think so! Thanks Ludivine!
I love both those languages - what a horrible choice! How strange that there've been no pro-Italian posts on this thread yet.
Italian: beautiful language, gorgeous country, fabulous food & culture, you'd find it fits in nicely (and more easily?) with the French etc etc
Russian: wonderful alphabet, intriguing grammar, fascinating history, awesome literature...would be an interesting & challenging contrast to French. It's comparatively unusual, so you'd definitely stand out. Also, the UCL Russian dept looks great and you yourself seem to be slightly more taken with the students/professors you met. I'm going to be doing it at uni myself so I suppose I'm a bit biased... Anyway, my conclusion: choose it! The world can never have too mnay Russianists!
Italian: beautiful language, gorgeous country, fabulous food & culture, you'd find it fits in nicely (and more easily?) with the French etc etc
Russian: wonderful alphabet, intriguing grammar, fascinating history, awesome literature...would be an interesting & challenging contrast to French. It's comparatively unusual, so you'd definitely stand out. Also, the UCL Russian dept looks great and you yourself seem to be slightly more taken with the students/professors you met. I'm going to be doing it at uni myself so I suppose I'm a bit biased... Anyway, my conclusion: choose it! The world can never have too mnay Russianists!
mr jim
...and italian smells.
...and italian smells.
How rude!
No Italian is an awsome language to learn, I'm having such fun studying it at Durham. I think the fact that it's a bit easier to learn is what makes it more fun because you'll be able to speak it well more quickly than something brand new like Russian and then you can go round insulting people in your new language! (jk)
But what I would do if I was seriously stuck like you is toss a coin! It's the best way. I'm sure you'll enjoy whatever you choose, and if after the first couple of weeks you find you really regret your decision, I'm sure you'll be able to switch.
Good luck choosing!
Russian would be a lot more exciting and challenging than Italian, which as you say is very similar to French and other European languages. Russian culture is more 'interesting' too depending on how you look at it (consisting largely of vodka drinking sessions and aiming pistols at your head ), although Italian music and food win hands down. Thing is though, Italian culture and 'stuff' is a lot more accessible to your average Joe, while Russian is unique and slightly mysterious... in terms of money-making I would go with Russian as prospects are probably better (oil and all that) and Russian is most likely more sought after (as Russian is not widely learnt in England despite it being a prominent country), and it is also one of the major languages of the UN which could be rather helpful. I would say if you got a year abroad in Russia it would be a unique, once-in-a-lifetime experience, and a lot of fun spending time with the natives, while Italy is right there in Europe and easy to get to.
Verdict - Russian. Be spontaneous.
), although Italian music and food win hands down. Thing is though, Italian culture and 'stuff' is a lot more accessible to your average Joe, while Russian is unique and slightly mysterious... in terms of money-making I would go with Russian as prospects are probably better (oil and all that) and Russian is most likely more sought after (as Russian is not widely learnt in England despite it being a prominent country), and it is also one of the major languages of the UN which could be rather helpful. I would say if you got a year abroad in Russia it would be a unique, once-in-a-lifetime experience, and a lot of fun spending time with the natives, while Italy is right there in Europe and easy to get to. Verdict - Russian. Be spontaneous.
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