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How to get "sent down" (expelled)

I've just read on Wikipedia that the journalist David Aaronovitch was sent down for failing the German element of his modern history degree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Aaronovitch

I was under the impression that it was extremely difficult to get booted out from Oxford for poor academic performance, and was thus surprised to read this.

Can anyone add anything?

Reply 1

Elles

17

samlangfield

I was under the impression that it was extremely difficult to get booted out from Oxford for poor academic performance, and was thus surprised to read this.

Can anyone add anything?

hmm, slightly manic with exam stress... :redface:

But I wouldn't say extremely really. Perhaps more easy in science subjects though - less easy to bluff or something? Most bootees I've known of have been a few chemists or medics. Although have heard of some other subject students being given "Penal Collection" last chances that they've scraped through though. The first year exams do "count" insofar as you do have to pass them to continue...

On the upside, most of the science students walked into 2nd years at other universities.
& there are plenty of opportunities & mechanisms by which to seek academic help/pastoral support if you're struggling for whatever reason. Overall the university drop out rate is very very low - although not sure if they include uni transfers in this? Easy to get booted out if you're enjoying your course & working hard? Less so i'd imagine... :smile:

Reply 2

RxB

1

In arts subjects, if you fail a paper, and fail the resit, that's it, you've failed. (But I thought "sent down" was only for disciplinary kickings-out)

Reply 3

London Prophet

17

It's easier just to steal a deer from Magdalen if you want to be sent down

Reply 4

Che!

11

RxB

In arts subjects, if you fail a paper, and fail the resit, that's it, you've failed. (But I thought "sent down" was only for disciplinary kickings-out)

What's seen as a "fail"?

Reply 5

Spunky

14

Same for engineering, you get one chance to retake if you fail, or you're gone. Also if you fail the practical element of the course you're sent down permanently too.

Reply 6

Isaiah Berlin

4

If you don't do any work, it's very easy to fail, particularly in the sciences. Just don't turn up to compulsary practicals and hey, you'll either get resticated (=suspended for a year) to catch up, or sent down if you're particluarly useless.

If you actually want to stay here and study, however, it's very very difficult to get sent down. I've met a lot of people who've got into academic troubel but it's never been due to a lack of ability; always to a lack of effort.

If you're really struggling for some reason, but are working hard, tutors will help you out a huge amount and you should get the class of degree you deserve.

Reply 7

RxB

1

Che!

What's seen as a "fail"?

Either sub-40, or sub-37 if all your other papers are 58+
(in PPE at least)

Reply 8

dancingqueen

11

I know chemistry has a fairly high kick-out rate after prelims. You get one chance to resit and if you fail again you're out. Although if we'd failed more than 2 more papers of prelims at the first attempt the college probably wouldn't have let us resit, according to our tutor. She said the vast majority of people who fail nly fail one paper though, so it doesn't really come up.

Reply 9

tenjon

8

dancingqueen

I know chemistry has a fairly high kick-out rate after prelims.

How much does the kick-out rate change from subject to subject?

Could it have something to do with the difficulty it is to get into the course in the first place?

Reply 10

Elles

17

unsurprisingly - haven't come across any official stats on that (!) :p:

as i said though - only been chemists & medics i've known of (out of 3 first year cohorts) actually leave for academics - an obvious bias in only knowing about people who aren't hermits though.
one you could argue could be related to competition to get in - perhaps giving people they wouldn't otherwise a chance to prove themselves, but culling them if they don't after a year?*
medicine has the highest applicants : offers in the prospectus table AFAIK. so the exams are hard? *mini violin*

*the 'what's the easiest subject? i'll apply for chemistry so i can go to oxford...' in this context amuses me a tad.
along with a complete 'what's the easiest college for me to get into oxford?' attitude - don't think they ultimately give you a special easy prelims paper to compensate for having chosen your "easy" college & not liking too much of a challenge... :wink:

Reply 11

dancingqueen

11

Elles

unsurprisingly - haven't come across any official stats on that (!) :p:

as i said though - only been chemists & medics i've known of (out of 3 first year cohorts) actually leave for academics - an obvious bias in only knowing about people who aren't hermits though.
one you could argue could be related to competition to get in - perhaps giving people they wouldn't otherwise a chance to prove themselves, but culling them if they don't after a year?*
medicine has the highest applicants : offers in the prospectus table AFAIK. so the exams are hard? *mini violin*

*the 'what's the easiest subject? i'll apply for chemistry so i can go to oxford...' in this context amuses me a tad.
along with a complete 'what's the easiest college for me to get into oxford?' attitude - don't think they ultimately give you a special easy prelims paper to compensate for having chosen your "easy" college & not liking too much of a challenge... :wink:

As you said, chemistry (statistically) is one of the easiest subjects to get in for. But still some people on this board don't seem to realise that if you're not good enough they're still gonna kick you out! :biggrin:

Reply 12

Crazy Mongoose

12

Conduct wise, what sort of thing do you get sent down for? Just how drunk do i have to be? Noticed those two guys nicked the Trinity sculpture and still didn't get sent down... if i run through the college naked will that do?

Reply 13

Athena

6

Crazy Mongoose

Conduct wise, what sort of thing do you get sent down for? Just how drunk do i have to be? Noticed those two guys nicked the Trinity sculpture and still didn't get sent down... if i run through the college naked will that do?

When my mum was at Oxford, she had a mad friend who did loads of terrible stuff and didn't get sent down (though he was threatened several times). He'd get bladdered and pull drain pipes off walls, jump through windows, run around the town at night screaming.

Reply 14

meef cheese

10

Crazy Mongoose

if i run through the college naked will that do?

Depends if you're ugly or not.

Reply 15

Crazy Mongoose

12

e-unit

Depends if you're ugly or not.

I am, obviously, a perfect specimen of the human body; a veritable adonis. Perhaps therefore i will get a scholarship instead?

Arrogance? Pride? Conceit? Moi?

Reply 16

trina

1

I think that for most subjects you have to fail an exam paper and then fail the resit, which is possible, but happens fairly rarely.
If you want to get sent down for misconduct you have to be pretty bad, although i've always thought it has some relationship with accademic performance. I suspect if the guys who stole the trinity orb had been getting bad grades and the college was looking for an excuse to throw them out, they'd have got sent down for it. The college is going to be very reluctant to throw you out if they think you're going to get amazing grades and become a nobel prize winner.

Reply 17

meef cheese

10

Crazy Mongoose

I am, obviously, a perfect specimen of the human body; a veritable adonis. Perhaps therefore i will get a scholarship instead?

Arrogance? Pride? Conceit? Moi?

I then depends on who is in charge of discipline, and whether they're male or female. And their sexual orientation.

Reply 18

Isaiah Berlin

4

Running about naked is not particularly serious. It isn't dangerous, and it doesn't leave a permanent impact on anything. Certain people do it pretty frequently, and never got in trouble for it. Obviously if you flashed the Donors' Dinner or something you'd get in a world of pain but so long as you choose your nakedness appropriately at night, no one in authority need ever find out.

I hear Oriel's Third Quad has been a scene of not infrequent nakedness in recent years. And why not? It's miles out of the way, no tourists need ever get in there. They could have an orgy in there in the middle of the night and no one would be the wiser...

Reply 19

Che!

11

I'm sure if you did something rather amusing and witty (like the story I heard of Balliol students painting a pig green and letting it loose at Trinity) you wouldn't get sent down. I suppose you'd have to hope the tutors had a sense of humour!