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Reply 100
kb500
taxation shouldn't be progressive
In my opinion, there are economic reasons that it should be. But I'd probably lean towards the balance of ethical reasons so that it shouldn't (right of the individual).
I still back progressive taxation. Ethics are cheap. Government having power to tax, doesn't mean it has power over the individual (although governments, increasingly and sadly, do have that power, it isn't strictly related to the way they tax)
Reply 101
President_Ben
In my opinion, there are economic reasons that it should be. But I'd probably lean towards the balance of ethical reasons so that it shouldn't (right of the individual).
I still back progressive taxation. Ethics are cheap. Government having power to tax, doesn't mean it has power over the individual (although governments, increasingly and sadly, do have that power, it isn't strictly related to the way they tax)
I still back progressive taxation. Ethics are cheap. Government having power to tax, doesn't mean it has power over the individual (although governments, increasingly and sadly, do have that power, it isn't strictly related to the way they tax)
I know the economic reasoning behind, i.e maximisation of utility etc, however this doesn't make it fair for me as an individual and that it all I am arguing.
Reply 102
Don't the rich pay proportionally less tax anyway even though 40% upper rate by taking advantage of tax loopholes? I'm sure i read it in the Indy (tho the Indy would ignore any study that said the opposite)
I for one think the rich should actually pay more tax, just because I find it awful how some children (ie not through their own fault) live in poverty in Britain. Personally I find that fact disgusting.
On a personal note:
My father despite being very well of now was unemployed for 2 years. During that time we relied on the richer elements of society to support us via benefits. I find it incredible when people imply that if you are on benefits you are lazy. Now he contributes his fair share in taxes to support the poor. If it wasnt for the benefits system I dont know what would have happen to us. To call people who are poor lazy is disgraceful; my father was never lazy, he just had problems (ie his company went bust so it didnt look too good on his cv) Luckily we were able to have handouts for my grandparents (hence y i went to private school). If anyone thinks the poor are lazy I seriously think you are so lucky in that you have never experienced what its like to be truely poor
I for one think the rich should actually pay more tax, just because I find it awful how some children (ie not through their own fault) live in poverty in Britain. Personally I find that fact disgusting.
On a personal note:
My father despite being very well of now was unemployed for 2 years. During that time we relied on the richer elements of society to support us via benefits. I find it incredible when people imply that if you are on benefits you are lazy. Now he contributes his fair share in taxes to support the poor. If it wasnt for the benefits system I dont know what would have happen to us. To call people who are poor lazy is disgraceful; my father was never lazy, he just had problems (ie his company went bust so it didnt look too good on his cv) Luckily we were able to have handouts for my grandparents (hence y i went to private school). If anyone thinks the poor are lazy I seriously think you are so lucky in that you have never experienced what its like to be truely poor
Reply 103
Ashman
Don't the rich pay proportionally less tax anyway even though 40% upper rate by taking advantage of tax loopholes? I'm sure i read it in the Indy (tho the Indy would ignore any study that said the opposite)
I for one think the rich should actually pay more tax, just because I find it awful how some children (ie not through their own fault) live in poverty in Britain. Personally I find that fact disgusting.
On a personal note:
My father despite being very well of now was unemployed for 2 years. During that time we relied on the richer elements of society to support us via benefits. I find it incredible when people imply that if you are on benefits you are lazy. Now he contributes his fair share in taxes to support the poor. If it wasnt for the benefits system I dont know what would have happen to us. To call people who are poor lazy is disgraceful; my father was never lazy, he just had problems (ie his company went bust so it didnt look too good on his cv) Luckily we were able to have handouts for my grandparents (hence y i went to private school). If anyone thinks the poor are lazy I seriously think you are so lucky in that you have never experienced what its like to be truely poor
I for one think the rich should actually pay more tax, just because I find it awful how some children (ie not through their own fault) live in poverty in Britain. Personally I find that fact disgusting.
On a personal note:
My father despite being very well of now was unemployed for 2 years. During that time we relied on the richer elements of society to support us via benefits. I find it incredible when people imply that if you are on benefits you are lazy. Now he contributes his fair share in taxes to support the poor. If it wasnt for the benefits system I dont know what would have happen to us. To call people who are poor lazy is disgraceful; my father was never lazy, he just had problems (ie his company went bust so it didnt look too good on his cv) Luckily we were able to have handouts for my grandparents (hence y i went to private school). If anyone thinks the poor are lazy I seriously think you are so lucky in that you have never experienced what its like to be truely poor
No the rich do not pay proportionally less! All of your rather emotive argument simply argues for the existence of tax revenue which is a concept which I am not rejecting. However even with a flat tax rate richer people would be paying nominally more into the pot which in turn can be used to help poorer people. My objection is that they should pay a higher proportion of their income not they should pay exactly the sae amount as everyone else.
Reply 104
Why shouldnt they? Why cant people who benefitted the most from society pay more proportionally? The rich have more disposable income than the poor and thus should be made to pay more tax on that income. If there was a flat rate of tax then the poor would have to have a tax rise. I might come across as a bit of a socialist, but honestly im not. I just believe that higher taxes allow the poor to receieve benefits from the state that they wouldnt be able to afford.
Also can we stop characterising every rich person as deserving of it. Yes there are some like citygroup guy who deserve it, but I have met several rich people who got where they were dueto the school tie method with daddy knowing a good man. I know someone who bloody well got into an oxford college even though they didnt have the grades BUT their dads best man is high up there. Coincidence surely. Even Prince Charles got into oxbridge (Cant remember which) ffs
PS
My comment about my dad was in response to citytrader or whatever his name is, showing that not all poor people are lazy. Nothing about tax rates
Also can we stop characterising every rich person as deserving of it. Yes there are some like citygroup guy who deserve it, but I have met several rich people who got where they were dueto the school tie method with daddy knowing a good man. I know someone who bloody well got into an oxford college even though they didnt have the grades BUT their dads best man is high up there. Coincidence surely. Even Prince Charles got into oxbridge (Cant remember which) ffs
PS
My comment about my dad was in response to citytrader or whatever his name is, showing that not all poor people are lazy. Nothing about tax rates
Reply 105
Ashman
People shouldn't be made to do anything.
Reply 106
Ashman
Why shouldnt they? Why cant people who benefitted the most from society pay more proportionally? The rich have more disposable income than the poor and thus should be made to pay more tax on that income. If there was a flat rate of tax then the poor would have to have a tax rise. I might come across as a bit of a socialist, but honestly im not. I just believe that higher taxes allow the poor to receieve benefits from the state that they wouldnt be able to afford.
Also can we stop characterising every rich person as deserving of it. Yes there are some like citygroup guy who deserve it, but I have met several rich people who got where they were dueto the school tie method with daddy knowing a good man. I know someone who bloody well got into an oxford college even though they didnt have the grades BUT their dads best man is high up there. Coincidence surely. Even Prince Charles got into oxbridge (Cant remember which) ffs
PS
My comment about my dad was in response to citytrader or whatever his name is, showing that not all poor people are lazy. Nothing about tax rates
Also can we stop characterising every rich person as deserving of it. Yes there are some like citygroup guy who deserve it, but I have met several rich people who got where they were dueto the school tie method with daddy knowing a good man. I know someone who bloody well got into an oxford college even though they didnt have the grades BUT their dads best man is high up there. Coincidence surely. Even Prince Charles got into oxbridge (Cant remember which) ffs
PS
My comment about my dad was in response to citytrader or whatever his name is, showing that not all poor people are lazy. Nothing about tax rates
Benefitted most or take advantage of the opportunties avaliable through hard work and determination?
Your second argument is so simplistic it's laughable. The rich have more money so they should pay more, how does this amount to paying a higher proportion and where is your justification for this or is it simply that everyone should be equal. Also understand flat taxes before saying poor people would have to pay more.
Yes some rich people don't deserve it (lottery winners) however we are talking about the majority so picking a few specific examples doesn't help advance the argument for a policy which will impact upon everyone.
Reply 107
CitigroupTrader
Wow, I spend four evenings out and one evening at home, therefore I'm a loser. Going to Pangaea later tonight. I have a table. You'll never be able to afford one.
So you get a table at Pangaea (Normally ~£150-£170 for the night, at least for me,) stay out till only 2.00 and then come back home (I'm guessing you didn't pull that evening) and start posting on a website for students and secondary school pupils? That's pretty funny (and even on 54.8k, ~30k net, seems like a bit of a waste of money). Also, how come you're getting paid full salary rather than stipend at 21, have you passed your Series 7 already? Lastly, weren't you either working at ten to five when you wrote your '3 Pillars' OP, (I can't believe the folks at Citigroup would be too thrilled by this), or on your way home.
Reply 108
In the UK, you get full salary straight away. Not stipends. You pass your exams in the first few months (FSA required exams which are really SII exams, series 7 is for the US markets while the aforementioned are for the UK ones).
Friday evening, people go home really early. The markets are dead. Which always surprises me (since I'd of thought some people would want to close positions to avoid any risks associated with leaving money over the weekend to effectively do nothing)
Friday evening, people go home really early. The markets are dead. Which always surprises me (since I'd of thought some people would want to close positions to avoid any risks associated with leaving money over the weekend to effectively do nothing)
Reply 109
kb500
Also understand flat taxes before saying poor people would have to pay more.
Flat taxes would lead to the poor paying more if you sought to collect the same amount of money via taxes. Yes there would be some savings by having a more simple tax system, but these savings would not balance out the loss of revenue that would occur if the higher rate of income tax was abolished.
My arguement about why the rich should pay more was badly phrased i admit (i have tonsillitus (sic?) and so am not as clear as I am normally) To state in a more coherent way:
In my opinion tax should in theory only be made on expendable income ie that which doesnt go on basics such as foods, basic clothing etc. That is why you dont get taxed up to x thousand pounds (i want to say 3 but im not sure and cant be arsed to check). Once you get to 35k + all your income above that amount is basically for luxuries (despite what people say you dont really need that holiday house, or to shop at Waitrose) thus the government should try and tax the earnings over 35k more as although it may hurt someone not being able to go on another city break in the year, its a damn site better than taxing someone who can barely afford to buy their child clothes.
Reply 110
Damn for some reason I cant edit my post...
Thus the only "fair" method is a progressive tax system, so that people dont have income that is spent on neccessities taxed heavily, whilst income that is spent on luxuries is.
Thus the only "fair" method is a progressive tax system, so that people dont have income that is spent on neccessities taxed heavily, whilst income that is spent on luxuries is.
Reply 111
Don't confuse an argument about waste with an argument about wealth.
Waste might happen more when someone gets more wealthy (diminishing marginal returns) but that point at which things become waste is (probably) arbitrary.
If you earn it, is it yours to use or waste? Modern private property theory suggests yes, but it hasn't always been like that. In Roman times, you couldn't use your wealth to say, buy a vineyard and then burn it down. If you did that now, people would still think you're a ****, but you wouldn't get put away for it.
It's all very complicated... and I feel like having a Saturday evening to get ready for my day tomorrow and Monday.
Waste might happen more when someone gets more wealthy (diminishing marginal returns) but that point at which things become waste is (probably) arbitrary.
If you earn it, is it yours to use or waste? Modern private property theory suggests yes, but it hasn't always been like that. In Roman times, you couldn't use your wealth to say, buy a vineyard and then burn it down. If you did that now, people would still think you're a ****, but you wouldn't get put away for it.
It's all very complicated... and I feel like having a Saturday evening to get ready for my day tomorrow and Monday.
Reply 112
Depends, if the fire spread to a neighbours house, then you would. Plus you can still get sectioned if people think you might be a danger to yourself/others (and if you did burn down a perfectly good vineyard for no reason im pretty sure there would be a reasonably arguement to be made for just that)
Reply 113
what about that rock band that drew out a million quid in tenners just so they could burn it? I don't think they got sectioned
Reply 114
Olek
what about that rock band that drew out a million quid in tenners just so they could burn it? I don't think they got sectioned
The KLF. Like I said you will only sectioned if they have good reason to believe you will harm yourselve or others. Burning an entire vine field is a bit more hazardous than simple throwing wads of notes into a fire in some part of Shetland (i think) Anyways I get his point. Yes you do have freedom todo whatever you want with your money providing it is legal no matter how stupid it is. I think we are deviating from the point over progressive tax rates, which deviated from arguing over if poor people are lazy, which deviated from the original discussion over the top 10 unis.
On a random note couldnt the KLF be arrested as the tenners had symbols of the queen on them? Surely there must be some old stupid law about destroying an image of the monarch. Obviously there are tons of pointless laws (like arson and piracy
) that are never enforced, and i was wondering if this maybe one of themReply 115
I think it's more because you're destroying currency, which remains property of the Bank of England.
Reply 116
The Bank of England probably have no problem with people burning money. Helps keep inflation down without them having to do anything.
Even better if a foreigner paid for that money. Means the current account balance improves.
Even better if a foreigner paid for that money. Means the current account balance improves.
Reply 117
12
Im going to study medicine at Bristol so how are my chances of being an IB? given that after 5 years of intense learning at medical school put me off my primary goal.....?
Reply 118
Originally posted by President_Ben
Even better if a foreigner paid for that money. Means the current account balance improves
Don't you mean the capital account? Besides, wouldn't they just cancel each other out?
Originally posted by sayed_samed
Im going to study medicine at Bristol so how are my chances of being an IB? given that after 5 years of intense learning at medical school put me off my primary goal.....?
What is the world coming to...
lol you havn't even started the course yet. How could you have changed your mind so quickly? This country needs more doctors.
Reply 119
15
sayed_samed
Im going to study medicine at Bristol so how are my chances of being an IB? given that after 5 years of intense learning at medical school put me off my primary goal.....?
Speaking as a randommo with no IB experience whatsoever... surely you went to medical school to study medicine, and later become a doctor/surgeon?
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