From Guardian: IB:anti-Christian,un-American and Marxist? Watch

flowerinthenight
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Have you guys heard about an article in Guardian which said that IB is anti-Christian, un-American and Marxist?

original article:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1730530,00.html

This article has been sent to all of the staff in my school and it is a hot topic now. From my personal point of view, it is not like that at all~ Im taking history as my IB course and i dont feel any point to say it is anti-Christian or Marxist. However, maybe there is a little bit un-American coz anyway it is a global course and it pros global perspective.
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hic_et_ubique
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"Some people claimed the IB was an international conspiracy"
damn right! we IBers are out to take over the world, right fellows?

hahahhaa this article totally made my day! thanks so much bloody genius this....
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pianofingers
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If it's an international conspiracy -- well I'm all for it. The world is becoming a smaller place as we speak, and we need to come together rather than isolate ourselves in paradigms wrapped up in tradition!

... I'm also in the middle of doing my TOK essay, hence the very TOK-ish tone of the post.

Just my two pence.
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HMSChocolate
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there's a thread on this article already...
But yes, I agree, the article is rather ridiculous...
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paupau
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"Some people claimed the IB was an international conspiracy"
damn right! we IBers are out to take over the world, right fellows?
why does that sound very familiar to what a university professor said to my friend O.O
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hic_et_ubique
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(Original post by paupau)
why does that sound very familiar to what a university professor said to my friend O.O
lol
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Abraham
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On one hand, yes that article is ridiculous. On the other hand, the IB programme isn't the greatest thing on earth either. What is wrong with TOK? "Blah blah blah, meaning of life, blah blah, perception" O good god, I've never wanted to stab a teacher as much. And how EXACTLY is the IB superior to taking APs? No its not really "evil, satanist, marxist, w/e. Yes, it isn't REALLY necessary to instate it.
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aluakz
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(Original post by Abraham)
On one hand, yes that article is ridiculous. On the other hand, the IB programme isn't the greatest thing on earth either. What is wrong with TOK? "Blah blah blah, meaning of life, blah blah, perception" O good god, I've never wanted to stab a teacher as much. And how EXACTLY is the IB superior to taking APs? No its not really "evil, satanist, marxist, w/e. Yes, it isn't REALLY necessary to instate it.
as much as don't like tok and cas, ib is still great. i'm not familiar with americal system. but i am familiar with brittish one. a levels? those are rediculous! i went to an interview at cambridge and got friendly with one brittish girl. well, she didn't know how to do long division (she didn't like maths and she dropped it as soon as she could)! division! how is that possible? everyone has to know such basic things. and she got an interview from cambridge?

what i am trying to say is that ib is the best lifelong preparation that i have seen so far. we have to do a bit of everything. we have some basic knowledge in all the main fields. we can make an extended research that will give us a feel of what to expect from the university. and tok... i blame my teachers because tok program at our school is crap. but i can see that it has a potential of being so interesting! come on, even for us it was the only class where we could tell our opinion about things (even school at teachers). and i actually benefited from tok, after two years i can write a critical essay and actually partically enjoy it (something that i couldn't have done in the beginning of 11th grade). and our cas coordiator is an idiot who thinks that charity will make her look better. she counted "walking" for action (though the girl mean "walking from one bar to another"), and told me that my summer job could count for 10 hours only.

so, ib is great. i am really glad that it offers some flexibility but yet still gives us the basic knowledge. and come on, all the people i know that finished school and were taking the ib say that the first year in university is nothing because of all the preparation they got.
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Abraham
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(Original post by aluakz)
as much as don't like tok and cas, ib is still great. i'm not familiar with americal system. but i am familiar with brittish one. a levels? those are rediculous! i went to an interview at cambridge and got friendly with one brittish girl. well, she didn't know how to do long division (she didn't like maths and she dropped it as soon as she could)! division! how is that possible? everyone has to know such basic things. and she got an interview from cambridge?

what i am trying to say is that ib is the best lifelong preparation that i have seen so far. we have to do a bit of everything. we have some basic knowledge in all the main fields. we can make an extended research that will give us a feel of what to expect from the university. and tok... i blame my teachers because tok program at our school is crap. but i can see that it has a potential of being so interesting! come on, even for us it was the only class where we could tell our opinion about things (even school at teachers). and i actually benefited from tok, after two years i can write a critical essay and actually partically enjoy it (something that i couldn't have done in the beginning of 11th grade). and our cas coordiator is an idiot who thinks that charity will make her look better. she counted "walking" for action (though the girl mean "walking from one bar to another"), and told me that my summer job could count for 10 hours only.

so, ib is great. i am really glad that it offers some flexibility but yet still gives us the basic knowledge. and come on, all the people i know that finished school and were taking the ib say that the first year in university is nothing because of all the preparation they got.
So what if she can't do long division. I am going into Computer Science and Math. I NEED long division, calculus, and a bunch of other crap. Why would an accountant? (S)he would get a calculator, and do everything (s)he needs.

TOK enlightening? Give me a break. "Perception allows us to perceive the perceptiveness of perceptive reality."(not actual quote) Woopedeedoodaayay. Go away, crawl into a whole, die. And our TOK/history/philosophy teacher is actually GOOD(he's gay AND french, but a good teacher nonetheless :P). I cringe to think what would happen if he sucked.

CAS... meh... just meh. I agree that charity is a good thing. As is developing skills outside school.... But... forcing someone to be charitable makes about as much sense as execution for attempted suicide. Its just retarded. Suffice to say that my CAS self evaluation got me suspended for a week and a half.

Now. I do not really see why having a broader base would be better then having a deeper one. The AP (american system), allows those motivated students who take the IB to take any number of classes - from one to however many. Each subject gives you an understanding/knowledge far deeper then IB HL. SO WHAT if a mathematician hasn't read the collective works of shakespeare, as long as he can integrate complex functions in his head... know what I'm saying?

Now granted, I HAD read the collected works of shakespeare, a whole bunch of other books, and a large amount of things on history, before even coming to the IB. I WANTED to know these things. But forcing them upon everyone is just retarded...

My 0.02$
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aluakz
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once again, i am not familiar with ap system. but excuse me, i would be ashamed if i couldn't divide on paper at the age of 30. and i would also be ashamed if i knew nothing about shakespeare. university is where we can specialize and drop all the stuff we don't like because we have a BASE already. school is to prepare us and give us BROAD knowledge. so that we have a choice afterwards.

i never said that tok was enlightening. i am not saying it has the same effect on everyone. i agree that most of the time is it boring. but excuse me, can you perhaps accept that some people actually might find it potentially interesting? what is wrong with that? and tok is not playing a huge role in the ib anyways. write a mediocre essay and get your 1 point. and leave alone people who think that tok actually gave them something, even if it's not much.

now, cas. what is 150 hours over almost 2 years? and by the way, cas is not only about charity. what is wrong with giving people stimulus to do sports? or to take photography classes to BROADEN their knowledge. and about charity... well, i do care that some people out there are suffering because we can't even do several hundreds or thousands euros charity to increase their standards of living because they just happened to be the victims of the society (blame history, or whatever, here is the problem and we have to deal with it). but i am lazy to do those things just like most of the high school students (or even people in general?). and cas gives some sort of insentive to do those charity activities which in the end of the day make me feel better about myself. but then again, as far as i know in order to graduate from a school in US, students have to do some charity activities. well then, cas is just an ib equivalent.

now forcing. well, sometimes we have to be forced especially when it is in our own benefit and the only reason we don't want to do it is because of our lazyness. before coming to ib i was under kazakh educational system which is very similar to the russian one. we HAD NO CHOICE. we had to take all the subjects. we were forced to do them. and i am soooooo thankful. because when i came here, switching to english ceased being a problem after some time. and because i had to take all sorts of subjects in my old school, i got into the higher honor roll in the end of the trimester (+ i came to school in the middle of the trimester). i was given BROAD knowledge and when i came here i just enjoyed the easy time. so, this is no bad forcing after all. this is just making us do things that will help us later.

and last thing. in the end of the day ib is not about what knowledge we gain. it teaches us how to approach problems. it teaches us the skills that go far beyond everyday school life. take any subject... english, maths, chemistry, theatre... all of them are just full of skills that can be used later beyond that subject field. i am not saying that ib is perfect. what i mean is that it gives us broad knowledge which will come handy later.

take care
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Sinuhe
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(Original post by Abraham)
TOK enlightening? Give me a break. "Perception allows us to perceive the perceptiveness of perceptive reality."(not actual quote) Woopedeedoodaayay. Go away, crawl into a whole, die.
Your TOK must have been done considerably differently from ours. We had each teacher (several of them were university professors) for three weeks only and had lots of lovely debates and reasoning and so on. While I'm sure everyone could find something more enjoyable to do each Wednesday from 3.45 to 6.20, I certainly don't think it was a waste of time. It was relatively fun and definitely very useful. That there's so much you learn about critical thinking and not simply accepting any idea without at least some degree of contemplation is something you realise only after you're at uni and see how the IB population compares to most of the others ...

And our TOK/history/philosophy teacher is actually GOOD(he's gay AND french, but a good teacher nonetheless :P).
And there is something wrong with being gay or French because ...?

Suffice to say that my CAS self evaluation got me suspended for a week and a half.
You got suspended for something you *wrote*? That's rather harsh and seems uncalled for. It does seem your school has a very different atmosphere from mine.

The AP (american system), allows those motivated students who take the IB to take any number of classes - from one to however many. Each subject gives you an understanding/knowledge far deeper then IB HL.
Have you actually SEEN any Advanced Placement papers? They're definitely not any deeper than the IB, particularly not at HL.
UCAS ranks the AP exams as equivalent to GCE AS level, by the way, while the IB Diploma is considered of an A level standard.

And you can do as many subjects as you like in the IB as well. While few people do more than seven, it's definitely possible. And you can do as few as you want, too - you just don't get a Diploma at the end, but rather a certificate.

I WANTED to know these things. But forcing them upon everyone is just retarded...
Who is forcing them upon you? You're free to do the IB if you want, or not if you don't. I really don't think it would be a suitable national secondary school leaving exam, but no one wants to make it into that, so your argument doesn't stand.
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henryt
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I wouldn't expect less from the Guardian... :rolleyes:
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blah0_o
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interesting.
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Nutcracker
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The IB might not be anti-Christian but anti-Christian teachers (atheist) take opportunity of Theory of knowledge to spread their beliefs and condemn religion by discriminating their students who happen to be Christians. I'm speaking from personal experience.
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running from demons
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This is how American politics works. Why cut education spending when you can fight unpatriotic heathen communists?

A slightly better attempt, courtesy of Lois Griffin:
But what about the terrorists?
That's right, terrorists.
We have intelligence that suggests that...
Hitler is plotting with...
with the Legion of Doom...
to assassinate Jesus...
using the lake as a base...
And we alsohave evidence that...
Darth Vader tried to buy yellowcake uranium...
from unwed teenage mothers.
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H.JT
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:rofl:

Best giggles I've had in a while =D



OP: 在中国学IB?0.0
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Nutcracker
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(Original post by running from demons)
This is how American politics works. Why cut education spending when you can fight unpatriotic heathen communists?

A slightly better attempt, courtesy of Lois Griffin:

There is a difference between experience, evidence and personal experience!
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toro552
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(Original post by Nutcracker)
The IB might not be anti-Christian but anti-Christian teachers (atheist) take opportunity of Theory of knowledge to spread their beliefs and condemn religion by discriminating their students who happen to be Christians. I'm speaking from personal experience.
To claim that ToK spreads atheist beliefs is arrogant. Actually ToK, if anything, encourage the students to think rationally beyond the norm of the dominated religion and beliefs in order to understand the world from other perspectives and develop a sense of understanding towards other cultures/religions of the world.

On a general note I'm not surprised that this happens particularly in America as they like to lock themselves in their own bubble with their religious and patriotic crap. I say build a wall around the US and isolate yourself from the rest of the world so these "Marxist, unamerican, and anti-Christian teachings" wont affect your brainwashed kids.
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moneyfaery
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(Original post by Nutcracker)
The IB might not be anti-Christian but anti-Christian teachers (atheist) take opportunity of Theory of knowledge to spread their beliefs and condemn religion by discriminating their students who happen to be Christians. I'm speaking from personal experience.
Ah, and one experience speaks for how TOK is taught in the rest of the world?

Btw, if you were smart, you'd point out the flaws in your teacher's beliefs. Extreme atheism is far from 'perfect' and 'consistent' - much like extremist stances on religion actually.
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JimGrey
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(Original post by flowerinthenight)
Have you guys heard about an article in Guardian which said that IB is anti-Christian, un-American and Marxist?

original article:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1730530,00.html

This article has been sent to all of the staff in my school and it is a hot topic now. From my personal point of view, it is not like that at all~ Im taking history as my IB course and i dont feel any point to say it is anti-Christian or Marxist. However, maybe there is a little bit un-American coz anyway it is a global course and it pros global perspective.
It's just another example of how the ignorance of a few can affect many. Especially in the US. The IB is a great system, I feel I benefited from greatly. It pissed me off when I read that article. Anti-christian? America was founded by secularists i.e. separation of religion and state. Anti-American, the only reason it could be anti-american is because it condemns the ignorance of a few right wing americans. And pro-marxist? Where did they get from? It's complete ********.
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