Does HL Maths = Further Maths? Watch

username4741930
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#21
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If you're truly into math, then a preparation for these exams at least is a basic requirement if you hope to go to a really good uni. And majoring from a really good uni is the basic requirement for landing a decent faculty job.
(Original post by Tolgarda)
BMO1 and BMO2? Hell no! That sh*t is truly for the best. Most university mathematicians probably don't need that. They can enter for the Senior Maths Challenge (basically the doorway exam to BMO1), but I am doubtful over how much of an advantage it really gives a student that isn't applying to Oxbridge (and even then, STEP and the MAT probably do their job well in the admissions process).
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username4741930
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Especially because the guy is looking at only Cambridge, Harvard and Princeton. I know a guy who did RMM which is supposed to be as hard as IMO but he didn't get into Princeton.
(Original post by Tolgarda)
BMO1 and BMO2? Hell no! That sh*t is truly for the best. Most university mathematicians probably don't need that. They can enter for the Senior Maths Challenge (basically the doorway exam to BMO1), but I am doubtful over how much of an advantage it really gives a student that isn't applying to Oxbridge (and even then, STEP and the MAT probably do their job well in the admissions process).
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London090
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Hey there! I'm doing my IGCSE exams at the moment and I've already chosen my IB subjects for next year and I chose HL application maths as one of them. I'm going to have to be very very honest with you, if you've not done IGCSE or GCSE add math yet then HL maths is going to be very hard. I am around an A/A* with my IGCSE standard maths however around a C/B with my add math, and I can tell you I've tried very hard. It is genuinely just difficult if you don't have a very good stable foundation and commitment to practice.

People think that they can just hop into IB HL maths without good prior add math knowledge from IGCSE or GCSE, you're asking for a death wish if you've not yet tried add math and plan to take HL maths. It's very difficult to get even a 6 and I know many students older than me who've gotten A* on their add math and when they got to IB had to drop HL math because it was too time consuming. Maybe give the HL math a shot for one term if you're not clicking with it then I seriously advise you to drop it, IB requires you to take so many more subjects than A-levels and you have to write IA's and the EE so you need to manage your time well. If HL math is going to take up your time then don't take it.
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Tolgarda
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(Original post by theo_)
If you're truly into math, then a preparation for these exams at least is a basic requirement if you hope to go to a really good uni. And majoring from a really good uni is the basic requirement for landing a decent faculty job.
It most certainly is not in England. I'm willing to bet that most of Cambrudge's undergraduate student body for mathematics didn't even sit BMO2! In Cambridge, STEP is usually sufficient in deciding places for applicants. I'm not sure what universities like Harvard and MIT do (although I have heard that MIT attract a lot of Olympiad material), but in England, it's really not that necessary.
(Original post by theo_)
Especially because the guy is looking at only Cambridge, Harvard and Princeton. I know a guy who did RMM which is supposed to be as hard as IMO but he didn't get into Princeton.
I know a guy that studies mathematics at Cambridge with zero Olympiad experience. We all have anecdotal evidence that could disprove each other's points, but on the whole, this isn't MIT, SUN or Beida. In England, I don't believe that it is as essential as you may think.

Also, by RMM, are you referring to a Romanian competition? If so, the idea that it may match the IMO in terms of difficulty seems a little silly. Where did you get that?
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username4741930
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Seriously, if you don't believe me go check out their past papers.
RMM is romanian math masters--they have a website. Their papers are just as hard.
also check out tanya khovanova's blog.
If you're an international applicant to princeton or mit, you have absolutely no chance of getting a math major degree without ross math camp or rsi or your national math olympiad exams (or exams of equal difficulty). the competition is way too high.

I say this because the guy specifically mentioned mit , princeton and harvard. Most IMO kids can't even pass Harvard's math 55 course. You need to show them that you're exceptional. I think Cambridge is more lenient. But international students make up about 8% of MIT's student body. MIT has an 8 per cent acceptance rate. Even for US applicants (Princeton and MIT), a decent score in the AIME at least is a must to be at least even considered eligible for math majors.
(Original post by Tolgarda)
It most certainly is not in England. I'm willing to bet that most of Cambrudge's undergraduate student body for mathematics didn't even sit BMO2! In Cambridge, STEP is usually sufficient in deciding places for applicants. I'm not sure what universities like Harvard and MIT do (although I have heard that MIT attract a lot of Olympiad material), but in England, it's really not that necessary.

I know a guy that studies mathematics at Cambridge with zero Olympiad experience. We all have anecdotal evidence that could disprove each other's points, but on the whole, this isn't MIT, SUN or Beida. In England, I don't believe that it is as essential as you may think.

Also, by RMM, are you referring to a Romanian competition? If so, the idea that it may match the IMO in terms of difficulty seems a little silly. Where did you get that?
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username4741930
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This isn't to discourage anybody. Sorry.
(Original post by theo_)
Seriously, if you don't believe me go check out their past papers.
RMM is romanian math masters--they have a website. Their papers are just as hard.
also check out tanya khovanova's blog.
If you're an international applicant to princeton or mit, you have absolutely no chance of getting a math major degree without ross math camp or rsi or your national math olympiad exams (or exams of equal difficulty). the competition is way too high.

I say this because the guy specifically mentioned mit , princeton and harvard. Most IMO kids can't even pass Harvard's math 55 course. You need to show them that you're exceptional. I think Cambridge is more lenient. But international students make up about 8% of MIT's student body. MIT has an 8 per cent acceptance rate. Even for US applicants (Princeton and MIT), a decent score in the AIME at least is a must to be at least even considered eligible for math majors.
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Tolgarda
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(Original post by theo_)
Seriously, if you don't believe me go check out their past papers.
RMM is romanian math masters--they have a website. Their papers are just as hard.
also check out tanya khovanova's blog.
If you're an international applicant to princeton or mit, you have absolutely no chance of getting a math major degree without ross math camp or rsi or your national math olympiad exams (or exams of equal difficulty). the competition is way too high.

I say this because the guy specifically mentioned mit , princeton and harvard. Most IMO kids can't even pass Harvard's math 55 course. You need to show them that you're exceptional. I think Cambridge is more lenient. But international students make up about 8% of MIT's student body. MIT has an 8 per cent acceptance rate. Even for US applicants (Princeton and MIT), a decent score in the AIME at least is a must to be at least even considered eligible for math majors.
I think you speak from an American perspective, while I speak from an English one. It definitely seems to be very different there, so it's good that you've mentioned it now.

I've only heard of the RMM, but I never knew it was that challenging. Interesting.

You've certainly taught me something here. Also, if 'most IMO' kids can't pass this maths course at Harvard, who can? Must they have attained a perfect score at the IMO twice or something? That seems unduly difficult to me. 😅
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username4741930
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Hmm, actually you can check it out, the course is called "Math 55"
Actually, you can crack IMO provided you get the hang of the problems. Sure, it's much tougher than other exams, but it is after all, an exam, and exams have a pattern. I would say high school programs like MIT primes would be much more difficult because they are research oriented, and you can't really 'crack' it like you would an IMO problem. For this reason, kids who think about math in a 'research' mindset, or basically, someone who has the aptitude of an IMO contestant, but the attitude of an MIT PRIMES (research based stuff) kid, they're probably much more likely to do well (basically pass) in this course. We all know mathematics education at high schools is total crap, so even qualifying for exams like Senior Maths Challenge and AIME is pretty cool considered the way teachers approach math and how students have been pushed to hate it.
(Original post by Tolgarda)
I think you speak from an American perspective, while I speak from an English one. It definitely seems to be very different there, so it's good that you've mentioned it now.

I've only heard of the RMM, but I never knew it was that challenging. Interesting.

You've certainly taught me something here. Also, if 'most IMO' kids can't pass this maths course at Harvard, who can? Must they have attained a perfect score at the IMO twice or something? That seems unduly difficult to me. 😅
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Tolgarda
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(Original post by theo_)
Hmm, actually you can check it out, the course is called "Math 55"
Actually, you can crack IMO provided you get the hang of the problems. Sure, it's much tougher than other exams, but it is after all, an exam, and exams have a pattern. I would say high school programs like MIT primes would be much more difficult because they are research oriented, and you can't really 'crack' it like you would an IMO problem. For this reason, kids who think about math in a 'research' mindset, or basically, someone who has the aptitude of an IMO contestant, but the attitude of an MIT PRIMES (research based stuff) kid, they're probably much more likely to do well (basically pass) in this course. We all know mathematics education at high schools is total crap, so even qualifying for exams like Senior Maths Challenge and AIME is pretty cool considered the way teachers approach math and how students have been pushed to hate it.
I think the only equivalent that I have heard of is the third part of Cambridge's mathematical tripos, but I'm not too sure on that.
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username4741930
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Isn't that masters level?
(Original post by Tolgarda)
I think the only equivalent that I have heard of is the third part of Cambridge's mathematical tripos, but I'm not too sure on that.
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username4741930
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It's way older than math 55 of course. And its reputation is quite formidable. So yeah, I think tripos part 3 is one of the hardest math courses in the world. I don't know how to compare the two, but tripos probably comes pretty close.
(Original post by theo_)
Isn't that masters level?
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Tolgarda
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(Original post by theo_)
Isn't that masters level?
Yes, I believe it is, but I meant that it was an 'equivalent' with regards to the demand and intensity that you described. I'm not very familiar with all of this, but I have many friends that seem to be very engaged with mathematics who tell me about all of these intensive courses and challenges in the field.
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username4741930
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But my basic point is the olympiad prep really helps for such courses. It makes you think in different ways and broadens your understanding of what exactly math is. So my opinion is that no math-lover should ever give it a miss. Even if you don't qualify for upper stages.
(Original post by theo_)
It's way older than math 55 of course. And its reputation is quite formidable. So yeah, I think tripos part 3 is one of the hardest math courses in the world. I don't know how to compare the two, but tripos probably comes pretty close.
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Tolgarda
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(Original post by theo_)
But my basic point is the olympiad prep really helps for such courses. It makes you think in different ways and broadens your understanding of what exactly math is. So my opinion is that no math-lover should ever give it a miss. Even if you don't qualify for upper stages.
Yeah, I see your point.
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username4741930
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Thanks!
(Original post by Tolgarda)
Yeah, I see your point.
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