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Clever people in the navy/armed forces...... is it really worth it??
Hi
Does anyone wishing to go into the armed forces (with particular attention to navy) as officers ever believe that they are over qualified and just wasting talent? I was looking at navy salaries and i would be expecting to earn 30k when i was atleast in my late twenties! This is what put me off going into the armed forces because i know i could start on that with a good degree at 21-23!
Does anyone wishing to go into the armed forces (with particular attention to navy) as officers ever believe that they are over qualified and just wasting talent? I was looking at navy salaries and i would be expecting to earn 30k when i was atleast in my late twenties! This is what put me off going into the armed forces because i know i could start on that with a good degree at 21-23!
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I will graduate with a degree in Physics in July this year yet am planning on joining the navy, I dont think i am wasting my degree as I think it will be good even if not directly applied. My brother applied for normal graduate jobs and is still unemployed as are most of my friends and his so the idea of getting 30k at age 21 is pretty ridiculous outside of London! I do think though the armed forces are about more than money but if you are doing it for the money remember the non-contributory pension and reduced rent have to be factored.
alastair
I will graduate with a degree in Physics in July this year yet am planning on joining the navy, I dont think i am wasting my degree as I think it will be good even if not directly applied. My brother applied for normal graduate jobs and is still unemployed as are most of my friends and his so the idea of getting 30k at age 21 is pretty ridiculous outside of London! I do think though the armed forces are about more than money but if you are doing it for the money remember the non-contributory pension and reduced rent have to be factored.
reduced rent?
It just strikes me that so many people that could earn mega money decide not to, and settle in the armed forces. Obviously im not there.....yet...... and perhaps its the buzz of travelling the world in the greatest historical military power ever........ being part of the british armed forces etc etc- must give you a buzz
You need clever people in the armed forces, no doubt about it. Most people (including clever people) don't join up for the money. Consider this: if our country made a large distinction between our thinkers and our warriors we would have cowards making our decisions and fools fighting our wars.
futureaussiecto
reduced rent?
It just strikes me that so many people that could earn mega money decide not to, and settle in the armed forces. Obviously im not there.....yet...... and perhaps its the buzz of travelling the world in the greatest historical military power ever........ being part of the british armed forces etc etc- must give you a buzz
It just strikes me that so many people that could earn mega money decide not to, and settle in the armed forces. Obviously im not there.....yet...... and perhaps its the buzz of travelling the world in the greatest historical military power ever........ being part of the british armed forces etc etc- must give you a buzz
While at Sea I think it is rent-free and all accomodation provided by the armed forces is subsidised. I don't think it is about the money though. I was brought up as an Army kid so travelled around the place and its the thing i miss the most now my Dad has left, its great seeing new places, meeting new people...
futureaussiecto
Hi
Does anyone wishing to go into the armed forces (with particular attention to navy) as officers ever believe that they are over qualified and just wasting talent? I was looking at navy salaries and i would be expecting to earn 30k when i was atleast in my late twenties! This is what put me off going into the armed forces because i know i could start on that with a good degree at 21-23!
Does anyone wishing to go into the armed forces (with particular attention to navy) as officers ever believe that they are over qualified and just wasting talent? I was looking at navy salaries and i would be expecting to earn 30k when i was atleast in my late twenties! This is what put me off going into the armed forces because i know i could start on that with a good degree at 21-23!
People who think like that are the people who aren't suited to the military. If you want money go to London, if you want job satisfaction then have a look at the military.
You really think I want to stab people for £34 a day?
I do it for everything but the money!
The armed forces is a lifestyle, not a job.
I can't stand narrow minded threads like this one. People seem to think that having a degree is an instant ticket to a high paid job 
Military rates of pay are pretty good for graduates, if you compare it to others, with plenty of opportunities for promotion and pay rises.
But like previously said, you don't join the military for the money, you do it for the experience and the challenge.
Military rates of pay are pretty good for graduates, if you compare it to others, with plenty of opportunities for promotion and pay rises. But like previously said, you don't join the military for the money, you do it for the experience and the challenge.
I do not agree with the comments made previously, Getting a degree as already mentioned is no guarantee to a good and well paid job. Ill graduate in the summer with a masters in civil and structural engineering and as such have been inundated with job offers. However, none of these compare with the total military package. Only by working in London will you start on anywhere near £30K and if you look at the stats the avaerage starting salary for a graduate is around £18K.
when i join the RAF i will be extremelly well qualified, however the RAF has always been what i have wanted to do, i in no way feel that i am "over qualified for the job", this kind of statement smacks of extreme arrogance, a trait not welcome in most military circles!! I accept you are entitled to your opinion, however i think that your views are narrow minded and you would realise this if you spent any time with officers of HM armed froces!
when i join the RAF i will be extremelly well qualified, however the RAF has always been what i have wanted to do, i in no way feel that i am "over qualified for the job", this kind of statement smacks of extreme arrogance, a trait not welcome in most military circles!! I accept you are entitled to your opinion, however i think that your views are narrow minded and you would realise this if you spent any time with officers of HM armed froces!
Whilst some people will graduate and walk straight into a well paid job, alot of people don't and will end up doing a job which there degree has no relevence to, and which they might have even been able to get without a degree at all. So there is no guarantee that you would be earning £30K anyway. Aside from that, do you want a job just for the money, or for the job satisfaction? I know chances are with most people it will be a combination of these, you still want the money, but want a job you will enjoy and want to do as well.
If the pay is really putting you off that much then maybe its not the right career for you. If the pay was very poor then I can understand that people will feel they need to consider if the wages they will get will justify them doing that job, but the wages in all the branches of the armed forces are pretty good - and if you feel that you are too qualified for that, or that you could earn more money elsewhere then maybe you are more suited to another job?
If the pay is really putting you off that much then maybe its not the right career for you. If the pay was very poor then I can understand that people will feel they need to consider if the wages they will get will justify them doing that job, but the wages in all the branches of the armed forces are pretty good - and if you feel that you are too qualified for that, or that you could earn more money elsewhere then maybe you are more suited to another job?
One other point mentioning is the contract we get in the forces. My sister is a well paid accountant at 28 but every year she has to discuss contracts and has moved companies a few times. I join the RAF next month and my contract runs out when i'm aged 44 if i want it.
There are a lot of perks in the forces you just don't get in a normal job not least the travel, the time off, the job security and sporting oppurtunities.
As for money if you pass your degree and join as a graduate you are on 27k after 8 months which equates to earning about 35k in london if you take alll the factors into consideration such as rent and food, private dental and health care etc. but as everyoner has said you don't join the forces for the money. You are never going to be loaded in the forces but you will be comfortable!
There are a lot of perks in the forces you just don't get in a normal job not least the travel, the time off, the job security and sporting oppurtunities.
As for money if you pass your degree and join as a graduate you are on 27k after 8 months which equates to earning about 35k in london if you take alll the factors into consideration such as rent and food, private dental and health care etc. but as everyoner has said you don't join the forces for the money. You are never going to be loaded in the forces but you will be comfortable!
As an example, a graduate would join the RAF on £26,371 pa. If they're flying branch then could be earning up to £4,000 flying pay bonus pa on top of that. Now remember that with low living costs of approx £50 per week all in, your disposable income is higher. Yes you might earn something similar in the City, but remember there that your travel costs are very high.
Plus you are automatically promoted to Flight Lieutenant after 2 1/2 years, so then you'd be on £33,795 + £5,000 flying pay - thats pretty good for a 25 year old!
But its not the salary that makes the difference, its your disposable income - and in the military thats quite high - hence why graduates from IOT had a tendancy to buy sportscars!!!
Plus you are automatically promoted to Flight Lieutenant after 2 1/2 years, so then you'd be on £33,795 + £5,000 flying pay - thats pretty good for a 25 year old!
But its not the salary that makes the difference, its your disposable income - and in the military thats quite high - hence why graduates from IOT had a tendancy to buy sportscars!!!
Having a good class of degree does not automatically make you a good Officer.
I agree with Steve Stifler who said about the Armed forces being a lifestyle rather than a job. If I wanted to earn more money then i'd join civvie street after uni. However, I want job satisfaction and to look back later in life knowing I achieved something.
I agree with Steve Stifler who said about the Armed forces being a lifestyle rather than a job. If I wanted to earn more money then i'd join civvie street after uni. However, I want job satisfaction and to look back later in life knowing I achieved something.
To the OP. I'm not sure where you are getting your figures from, but you are clearly missing the point. There is much more to a career in the Armed Forces than the money. However, if money is your focus (ignoring the fact that you stand a cat in hell's chance of getting through selection if it is) then I suggest that you take another look at the figures:
Exactly how many and what sort of jobs will pay a recent graduate with no real world experience a salary of 30k+ on starting? What is the job security? What is the job satisfaction?
What additional benefits are you getting from your Service pay (health and dental care, subsidised food, rent, adventure training etc, quality training that is valued in civvie street, even after the recent changes a very decent pension plan etc)
And I've just completed 17 years in the RAF and retired from a salary of about £56kpa. I am now at Cambridge University studying for a PhD - if you can tell me where I can earn £56k+ after graduating, please pm me!!! Suffice to say, I'm pretty sure that in order to get that sort of money, it will be my military experience that wins me the job more than the degree.
Exactly how many and what sort of jobs will pay a recent graduate with no real world experience a salary of 30k+ on starting? What is the job security? What is the job satisfaction?
What additional benefits are you getting from your Service pay (health and dental care, subsidised food, rent, adventure training etc, quality training that is valued in civvie street, even after the recent changes a very decent pension plan etc)
And I've just completed 17 years in the RAF and retired from a salary of about £56kpa. I am now at Cambridge University studying for a PhD - if you can tell me where I can earn £56k+ after graduating, please pm me!!! Suffice to say, I'm pretty sure that in order to get that sort of money, it will be my military experience that wins me the job more than the degree.
Rotters
I don't have a degree does that mean im not clever?
Amen to that. I don't like this ethos that you have to have a degree to be clever. Some people are clever but perhaps went into a career instead of going to uni. Uni isn't for all people. I work with some very clever people that don't have degrees, instead they chose to learn a trade, a trade they are very good at.
This is an argument that engages JOs in constant debate, it was certainly very alive 17 years ago, when I was one of those fast-streamed graduates. The fact is that having a degree doesn't mean that you are more intelligent than a specific person who doesn't have a degree, but it does mean that you have provided proof that you have a certain level of intelligence, which a person who has not taken a degree has not proven in that same way.
A degree from a UK University is a reasonably standardised indication of a level of academic ability, an ability to absorb and apply information, as well as a maturity in managing one's life independent of home etc.
The fact, from the employer's point of view, is that people with degrees do substanially better in training than those without. Of course, the hypothetical that those people that don't have degrees and who still succeed in their RAF careers are just as intelligent as degree holders, just chose a different career path, is perfectly possible - the critical difference is thay they haven't proven that fact and can't prove it until many years into their service.
The RAF affords benefit though increased seniority to those that have proven their level of intelligence, rather than those that cannot provide that same level of proof. It is nothing to do with how intelligent you are per se, it's a calculation based on years of measuring training risk, based on initial proof of academic ability.
I would never suggest that because I have a degree that I am cleverer or brighter than the next officer. However, at the early stage of a career, my degree certificate did offer my employer the indication that I was less of a training risk than someone without one.
I hope that explains the apparent 'degree prestige' held during the application process and in the early years of your service. Rest assured, 5+ years into your career, it won't make a fig of difference.
A degree from a UK University is a reasonably standardised indication of a level of academic ability, an ability to absorb and apply information, as well as a maturity in managing one's life independent of home etc.
The fact, from the employer's point of view, is that people with degrees do substanially better in training than those without. Of course, the hypothetical that those people that don't have degrees and who still succeed in their RAF careers are just as intelligent as degree holders, just chose a different career path, is perfectly possible - the critical difference is thay they haven't proven that fact and can't prove it until many years into their service.
The RAF affords benefit though increased seniority to those that have proven their level of intelligence, rather than those that cannot provide that same level of proof. It is nothing to do with how intelligent you are per se, it's a calculation based on years of measuring training risk, based on initial proof of academic ability.
I would never suggest that because I have a degree that I am cleverer or brighter than the next officer. However, at the early stage of a career, my degree certificate did offer my employer the indication that I was less of a training risk than someone without one.
I hope that explains the apparent 'degree prestige' held during the application process and in the early years of your service. Rest assured, 5+ years into your career, it won't make a fig of difference.
I find those remarks quite offensive actually. I am just doing a degree,(funded by the RAF) and have been in the RAF for 14 years. I am now applying for commission. In 14 years I have flown all over the world, served in Cyprus, all over the UK and am about to do my second tour in Iraq. In my mind that beats going to the same job day in day out for the next 40 years, 30k or not.
threeportdrift
This is an argument that engages JOs in constant debate, it was certainly very alive 17 years ago, when I was one of those fast-streamed graduates.
A debate that I feel quite strongly about. My old head of sixth form and I often had this debate. She thought the only way to succeed was to go to university. She implied I would fail with my career if I didn't.
The fact is that having a degree doesn't mean that you are more intelligent than a specific person who doesn't have a degree, but it does mean that you have provided proof that you have a certain level of intelligence, which a person who has not taken a degree has not proven in that same way.
Agreed it is one of the ways to prove a level of intelligence and learning. There are other ways to prove this though. In the case of my myself; annual appraisals, reports, techinical examination results and awards.
A degree from a UK University is a reasonably standardised indication of a level of academic ability, an ability to absorb and apply information, as well as a maturity in managing one's life independent of home etc.
Agreed it shows some academic abilities, but the maturity? Not always the case. I don't think that from a degree only, one can judge maturity and ability to look after themselves. Someone that decides university isn't for them and instead are going to look for work, is showing just as much maturity. They are taking charge of their life and making decisions for themselves. From my experience at sixth form, many people go to uni because either they don't know what to do with their life, can't be bothered, or are to scared to go into full-time work . Instead they stay in their comfort zone, which is full time education. I know not all people are like this. This is not intended as a sterotype of students at all, just my experience with many of people. These type of people aren't independant, they are reliant on their comfort zone and reluctance to change.
Of course, the hypothetical that those people that don't have degrees and who still succeed in their RAF careers are just as intelligent as degree holders, just chose a different career path, is perfectly possible - the critical difference is thay they haven't proven that fact and can't prove it until many years into their service.
They haven't in the same way that graduates do, but they can have in other ways. Saying that they can't prove it until many years into their service, I believe, is untrue. It just means that we have to work harder to prove it.
Rest assured, 5+ years into your career, it won't make a fig of difference.
Totally agree with that.
Sorry, I don't agree with people that think they are somehow better because they have a degree. This isn't aimed at you at all three, I was just picking up on some comments you put forward.
futureaussicto
This is what put me off going into the armed forces because i know i could start on that with a good degree at 21-23!
This is what put me off going into the armed forces because i know i could start on that with a good degree at 21-23!
Don't worry, with an attitude like that they won't let you in the armed forces!
In reference to the thread title....
Yes
The armed forces is home to some very intelligent people. It is what makes us person for person, second to none. It is worth it beacuse you are serving your country and will defend it in it's time of need.
Cheesy but true.
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