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Trinity College Dublin? watch

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    Ive applied to Trinity Dublin for a Masters. Anyone know anything about it. Id love to hear something, anything anecdotal about the place :p:
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    Sorry to interrupt.......

    I am just a curious international student.

    You are from Oxford?! and you want to do a master in Trinity college, Dublin?!

    I know nothing about Trinity college, Dublin, but it seems that it is not as famous as Oxford. So you think the course and the reputation of the department are more important than the overall reputation of the university?
    :rolleyes:

    Thank you. You do not need to answer me if you don' t want to.
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    (Original post by yeung3939)
    Sorry to interrupt.......

    I am just a curious international student.

    You are from Oxford?! and you want to do a master in Trinity college, Dublin?!

    I know nothing about Trinity college, Dublin, but it seems that it is not as famous as Oxford. So you think the course and the reputation of the department are more important than the overall reputation of the university?
    :rolleyes:

    Thank you. You do not need to answer me if you don' t want to.
    I got rejected by Oxbridge for masters. So I am waiting for responses from TCD and LSE, Kings, UCL, and SOAS in London. Although some people might rate LSE higher, as the international league tables seem to, I very much like the look of the course at TCD. The department is more important than the overall reputation for postgrad (though the opposite is definitely true for undergrad), but the History departments at Oxbridge are much more recognised than TCD, I just couldn’t get in there.

    I may reapply for PhD to Oxford after my masters, but if I like TCD or London a lot and find a really great supervisor then I might want to stay there. Finding a good supervisor who you like and get on with is the most important thing about postgrad research in the humanities, you can be totally screwed by a supervisor who doesn’t like you, they can drag on your PhD for years by telling you to make further changes - this is a miserable experience that a friend of mine went through (took her 2 years longer than it could have). Postgrad study at doctoral level (perhaps not at taught masters level) is a very solitary experience which you must mostly find the motivation for yourself, you have to be happy with the place and the supervisor and that is the most important thing, as lots of PhD's are never finished. Even for a masters this can be said to be the most important factor, because the key thing is to get very good results to help you in your PhD applications, it can be said that getting into a better place might motivate you to work harder, but I think the opposite can be the case - I was too lazy as an undergrad having gotten into Oxford - so I ended up with a II.i, and you can only have a really good chance of getting into Oxbridge at postgrad if you get a 1st.

    Well there are my thought, I will elaborate further if you are interested.
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    (Original post by yeung3939)
    Sorry to interrupt.......

    I am just a curious international student.

    You are from Oxford?! and you want to do a master in Trinity college, Dublin?!

    I know nothing about Trinity college, Dublin, but it seems that it is not as famous as Oxford. So you think the course and the reputation of the department are more important than the overall reputation of the university?
    :rolleyes:

    Thank you. You do not need to answer me if you don' t want to.
    Oh Im from HK too btw, an expat, and of course I could walk into HKU if I wanted to.
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    Also as an undergrad at Ox, as soon as I get my honorary MA, I will automatically outrank anyone at Oxford who was not an undergrad there within the formal voting hierarchy, except the Chancellor and Vice-Chancellor I should say… Its quite funny, since there are plenty of people with Oxford DPhil’s who would remain jealous of me.

    Anyway, though Oxbridge has an elite status, TCD, and London University are not to be scoffed at, they are top world standard institutions.
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    Very insightful :rolleyes: ............. thank you for your detailed answer!

    You are also from Hong Kong? You went to UK when you were a primary school or secondary school or university student?

    Actually, I am now a LLB year two student of University of Hong Kong. I wish to get into a UK politics undergraduate degree programme because I really don't like law and really love international politics, especially international security.

    May you help me?

    Since my GPA is only 2.71 (around the class median), I did not apply to top schools and only got offer from SOAS, Aberystwyth and Essex (all politics).

    Which one do you think is the best, provided that I want an academic career goal (postgraduate research studies)? Aber and Essex's departments are excellent (Both 5*) and SOAS has excellent area focus and overall prestige.

    Or you think I should remain in the LLB programme.

    I am very determined to pursue an academic career. If not, I need not move to UK for a politics degree at all. (you know, a HKU law degree is good enough)

    Ar.... Actually, what are you studying?

    Thank you.
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    Also, I usually see someone getting an undergraduate MA from Oxford. What is it? Is it a Master's degree?:rolleyes:
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    hi! do you think i will have any chance of getting into oxford for postgrad (PhD) with a 2.1. in my undergraduate degree (a relevant degree) and a MSc. (again relevant) from Manchester Business School???????? I have around 6 years work experience and also have the professional qualification related to my field of study (management)????????????

    any info would b great?????

    luv jo.xxx





    (Original post by pendragon)
    I got rejected by Oxbridge for masters. So I am waiting for responses from TCD and LSE, Kings, UCL, and SOAS in London. Although some people might rate LSE higher, as the international league tables seem to, I very much like the look of the course at TCD. The department is more important than the overall reputation for postgrad (though the opposite is definitely true for undergrad), but the History departments at Oxbridge are much more recognised than TCD, I just couldn’t get in there.

    I may reapply for PhD to Oxford after my masters, but if I like TCD or London a lot and find a really great supervisor then I might want to stay there. Finding a good supervisor who you like and get on with is the most important thing about postgrad research in the humanities, you can be totally screwed by a supervisor who doesn’t like you, they can drag on your PhD for years by telling you to make further changes - this is a miserable experience that a friend of mine went through (took her 2 years longer than it could have). Postgrad study at doctoral level (perhaps not at taught masters level) is a very solitary experience which you must mostly find the motivation for yourself, you have to be happy with the place and the supervisor and that is the most important thing, as lots of PhD's are never finished. Even for a masters this can be said to be the most important factor, because the key thing is to get very good results to help you in your PhD applications, it can be said that getting into a better place might motivate you to work harder, but I think the opposite can be the case - I was too lazy as an undergrad having gotten into Oxford - so I ended up with a II.i, and you can only have a really good chance of getting into Oxbridge at postgrad if you get a 1st.

    Well there are my thought, I will elaborate further if you are interested.
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    (Original post by yeung3939)
    Very insightful :rolleyes:
    Are you aware that the roll eyes :rolleyes: emoticon is intended to indicate sarcasm?
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    Oh! No! I don't aim at 諷刺.

    Your reply was really insightful. (this time I dare not use any icon since icon does induce unnecessary thought)

    Sorry for my misusing icon. ^^
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    I did not aim at offending anyone.
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    (Original post by yeung3939)
    Very insightful :rolleyes: ............. thank you for your detailed answer!

    You are also from Hong Kong? You went to UK when you were a primary school or secondary school or university student?

    Actually, I am now a LLB year two student of University of Hong Kong. I wish to get into a UK politics undergraduate degree programme because I really don't like law and really love international politics, especially international security.

    May you help me?

    Since my GPA is only 2.71 (around the class median), I did not apply to top schools and only got offer from SOAS, Aberystwyth and Essex (all politics).

    Which one do you think is the best, provided that I want an academic career goal (postgraduate research studies)? Aber and Essex's departments are excellent (Both 5*) and SOAS has excellent area focus and overall prestige.

    Or you think I should remain in the LLB programme.

    I am very determined to pursue an academic career. If not, I need not move to UK for a politics degree at all. (you know, a HKU law degree is good enough)

    Ar.... Actually, what are you studying?

    Thank you.
    I went through all my schooling in HK in the ESF, and then went to Oxford for undergrad.

    I am studying history, all Oxford graduates receive the BA(hons) or whatever other degree they are doing after finishing, but then several years later without any additional work they can pay a small fee to receive an MA, it is widely known that this is not a real masters but an honorary one given by Oxford, Cambridge and TCD. It is because these universities believe their graduates are capable of going straight onto a PhD without a masters, it also confers a higher status within the university and voting rights superior to postgrad students at Oxbridge who received their bachelors somewhere else.

    To be honest HKU is not a very strong university in international terms, but it is perfectly respectable. And the thing is that within the UK people expect that people will often do their first degree in their own country, and HKU is the best university in Hong Kong, and the most compatible with western models of education in China, so it does not prevent you from getting into elite universities in the UK. Many people who went to HKU, especially those doing law, are accepted into LLM programs at top London colleges, I would think it would be possible to get into Oxbridge with a lot of luck too. London university has several colleges which are internationally very prestigious, SOAS is very well respected in the area of Asian and African related studies. Nobody thinks of London University as a whole though, if they did its research output and funds would make it at least the equal of Oxbridge (although in terms of historical name recognition it will never be as elite). You need amazing results, and very strong references for postgraduate at top universities, if you have these from HKU you have a chance of getting into places like Oxford and LSE.

    To do very well anywhere you must be intelligent, love your subject and work very very hard. Can you get a top result for law? And do you enjoy the subject? If so stick with it and you can definitely get in somewhere decent for postgrad. If not ask yourself the question would you do much better studying politics? Do you really love politics? If you cannot get a 1st studying politics, which would be very hard, in the UK I would say stay at HKU. A law degree is a lot more useful than a politics degree, unless you would do much better studying politics.

    If you are seriously thinking about switching I would say this - at undergraduate level the university is much more important than the department. This is mostly true, but you should ask someone who knows about your subject, which I do not, but SOAS is much further up in most peoples estimation, and seeing as China is seen by everyone in the UK if not world as having a great future, studying Asian related politics would be both explicable especially from a person from HK, and a good move generally. If you are going to the UK I would say go to SOAS, but London isnt a great place to be a student, its expensive and there are no campuses so it can be quite lonely.

    What are you thinking? What would you really like to do?
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    (Original post by yeung3939)
    Oh! No! I don't aim at 諷刺.

    Your reply was really insightful. (this time I dare not use any icon since icon does induce unnecessary thought)

    Sorry for my misusing icon. ^^
    laughs dont worry about it I just thought you were mocking my opinions for a second!

    :p: These are all good ones, you can use those, people feel better when they see emoticons!

    is laughing

    smiling

    :p: sticking out your tongue (in a teasing friendly way)

    winking, can be friendly, can also be flirtatious if aimed at a member of the opposite sex.
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    (Original post by jo131278)
    hi! do you think i will have any chance of getting into oxford for postgrad (PhD) with a 2.1. in my undergraduate degree (a relevant degree) and a MSc. (again relevant) from Manchester Business School???????? I have around 6 years work experience and also have the professional qualification related to my field of study (management)????????????

    any info would b great?????

    luv jo.xxx
    Where is your undergrad degree from? How well recognised is Manchester Business school's MSc? I don’t know about business/economics. Look at the league tables (Times and Guardian - google it) and figure it out for me.

    What were you results from the MSc like? What was the average mark within your undergrad degree II.i? These things are important. I would say that if you have a very high average mark for undergrad (ie just missed a 1st), or if you got a distinction/top mark in your MSc then you have a good shot at getting into Oxford for a PhD. Otherwise not, unless Manchester is a very top place for your subject. Still apply anyway, what do you have to loose, just be sure to apply to lots of other places including insurance places that you can definitely get into, and don’t let all your hopes ride on any one place.
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    (Original post by pendragon)
    [Oxford MA], it is widely known that this is not a real masters but an honorary one given by Oxford, Cambridge and TCD. It is because these universities believe their graduates are capable of going straight onto a PhD without a masters,
    Um, no it isn't... it's because historically the first degree members of the older universities were admitted to was the MA, after studying the trivium for three years and then the quadrivium for four years. They were admitted to the 'holding' degree of BA after the trivium to indicate their partial completion of the course; over the centuries, the material from the quadrivium seeped down into the lower degree until eventually they were admitted to the MA 7 years after matriculation with no further work.

    TCD, Oxford and Cambridge do it this way, whilst the Scottish Universities just admit the student straight to the MA after the initial four years of study. Some of the older English universities (e.g. Durham) also used to admit students to the MA in the same way as Oxbridge/TCD, but switched over to just the BA in the 50s.


    Incidentally, most UK first degrees entitle you to proceed straight to PhD/DPhil study, certainly in the sciences. There's no special entitlement for those admitted to the Oxbridge or Scottish or TCD MA - they're generally just regarded as equivalent to a BA elsewhere.

    The reason for voting rights and seniority is because the MA was regarded as making one a member of the "guild! of the university, similar to corporate membership in a body. Nowadays certainly Oxford at least (not sure about Cambridge) admits holders of higher degrees to its convocation, but historically it was just made up of the Masters in the University, i.e. the MAs

    (Original post by pendragon)
    you can only have a really good chance of getting into Oxbridge at postgrad if you get a 1st.
    Incidentally, I have been admitted to Oxford for a DPhil starting in October with ... a (very) low 2:1 from a non-Oxbridge university, so you shouldn't need a first if the other areas of your application (references, personal statement/research proposal, etc) are strong enough.
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    (Original post by fredsmith365)
    Um, no it isn't...

    Incidentally, I have been admitted to Oxford for a DPhil starting in October with ... a (very) low 2:1 from a non-Oxbridge university, so you shouldn't need a first if the other areas of your application are strong enough.
    That has been a grounds on which it has been recently defended against people who have called on Oxbridge to abandon the practice (that Oxbridge undergrad degrees require a lot more work than other universities) which is why I included it to explain the concept to my new friend from HK, I am aware of the historical causes for the MA, but that would be a very lengthy explanation and I was mainly focused on conveying the present perception. One of those causes is so that Oxfords own grads outrank postgrads like yourself once they become full members.

    What subject are you doing? For history, my subject, it is difficult to get in without a high average mark in a II.i degree. Publications and amazing scholarships might help you over the hurdle I suppose. But I had very strong references and a II.i that was not very low and did not get in, though I heard from an inside source (my tutor) that I came very close.
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    Also did you go straight from a very low II.i into a DPhil? Or did you get a good masters?

    What uni did you go to?
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    I've done (or, rather, am doing) an M.Sc., but my DPhil offer is unconditional due to my 2:1 (from Durham), and the M.Sc. is in an (utterly) unrelated branch of the field - was largely done because they'd pay me for a year .

    My M.Sc. marks aren't exactly what you'd call stellar either: practical marks in the 1st class range, but exam marks well down in the 2:2 range, if you map the marks onto first degree classifications. (Possibly because exams only test your ability to do exams, rather than to be a good experimental scientist...)
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    (Original post by fredsmith365)
    I've done (or, rather, am doing) an M.Sc., but my DPhil offer is unconditional due to my 2:1 (from Durham), and the M.Sc. is in an (utterly) unrelated branch of the field - was largely done because they'd pay me for a year .

    My M.Sc. marks aren't exactly what you'd call stellar either: practical marks in the 1st class range, but exam marks well down in the 2:2 range, if you map the marks onto first degree classifications. (Possibly because exams only test your ability to do exams, rather than to be a good experimental scientist...)
    Ah science... I am out of my depth already. But you probably have amazing references especially if they are paying you to do a MSc, and Durham is a top UK university.

    Another point is that they often make higher demands of international students, because it is less easy to gauge how good they are than it is with UK graduates.
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    (Original post by pendragon)
    That has been a grounds on which it has been recently defended against people who have called on Oxbridge to abandon the practice (that Oxbridge undergrad degrees require a lot more work than other universities)
    But by that token, any first degree from one of the Scottish Ancients (or Dundee, which also admits members to the MA as a first degree due to it's historical background) similarly would require a lot more work than a degree from other universities, given that they also award the MA to people aged 21 (assuming no gap years etc; the Scottish MA is 4 years, but they enter a year earlier, and most English students with decent A-level grades can enter in the second year reducing it to the standard English 3 years).

    And yet it would be...unusual... to argue that an MA(Glasgow), MA(St. Andrews), MA(Aberdeen), MA(Dundee) or MA(Edinburgh) required vastly more work than say, a BA(LSE), BA(Dunelm) or BA(York). Even if this was argued, then on what grounds is the MA(Dundee) vastly better than, e.g. the BA(Heriot-Watt), given the two universities are typically fairly close under most metrics used and both operate within in the Scottish system?

    The fact that the first degree is the MA does not in any way imply a higher degree of scholarship; it's merely a misunderstanding of the historical background involved.
 
 
 
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