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Why would it be a bad thing to destroy the whole human race? watch

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    Because the Matrix was a monsterously-stupid philosophical proposition?

    I'll agree with that.
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    (Original post by ForeverIsMyName)
    Because the Matrix was a monsterously-stupid philosophical proposition?

    I'll agree with that.
    Yes. The Matrix frequently seems to come up in my philosophy seminars. For some inexplicable reason my tutor frequently makes comparisons or references to it yet constantly follows it up by re-iterating how we should not place any worth in it.
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    (Original post by Laika)
    Do you ever think we've evolved to such a point that the human psyche cannot cope with life? If we are to place stock in the theory of evolution, then surely the goal of species is merely to survive and pro-create, whereas humans have evolved into such complex beings, that these primary functions have become secondary actions. We search for further meanig to life above and beyond those functions that evolution has taught us, but that search is ultimately futile, and thus we can only measure of life's meaning in terms of our accomplishment within society. But the value of 'accomplishing' within socieities expectations are surely driven for political reasons - to contribute well to society and produce wealth - goals not driven towards internal happiness but aesthetic and material gain. In summary, we'd all do well to jump off a cliff.
    This is the point I am trying to make.

    A number of people have made the point that they would like to live. I know that. I am not for one moment making the serious suggestion that we actually nuke the world - I am not advocating compulsory genocide. My question is not whether you want to live because I assume all of you do, but why do you want to live?
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    (Original post by Laika)
    Do you ever think we've evolved to such a point that the human psyche cannot cope with life?
    No

    If we are to place stock in the theory of evolution, then surely the goal of species is merely to survive and pro-create, whereas humans have evolved into such complex beings, that these primary functions have become secondary actions. We search for further meanig to life above and beyond those functions that evolution has taught us, but that search is ultimately futile, and thus we can only measure of life's meaning in terms of our accomplishment within society. But the value of 'accomplishing' within socieities expectations are surely driven for political reasons - to contribute well to society and produce wealth - goals not driven towards internal happiness but aesthetic and material gain.
    And you don't think that contributions to society can bring internal happiness?

    You don't think that the act of evolving, achieving things, making the world better for other people, can bring internal happiness?

    I see nothing futile about our existance.

    In summary, we'd all do well to jump off a cliff.
    You may jump if you wish, but my life has more purpose, I am happy, and I see much more evolution to come, I see much purpose in life in general, and have no desire to jump off a cliff.
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    (Original post by mikesgt2)
    This is the point I am trying to make.

    A number of people have made the point that they would like to live. I know that. I am not for one moment making the serious suggestion that we actually nuke the world - I am not advocating compulsory genocide. My question is not whether you want to live because I assume all of you do, but why do you want to live?
    Because we are at the beginning of a giant journey of discovery, not at the end.

    Why would you want to abort before the end?

    Why would you want to abort before you had all the data needed to decide whether aborting was the right course of action?
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    (Original post by mikesgt2)
    question is not whether you want to live because I assume all of you do, but why do you want to live?
    err because being deads boring? :rolleyes:

    p.s. yay my account was finally activated
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    Destroying the Human race is tantamount to destroying the universe from a human perspective.
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    (Original post by mikesgt2)
    Why do I ask this thoroughly depressing question? While I am personally not at all depressed, I have never been able to remove the thought from my mind that life is ultimately futile. It seems to me that all meaning attached to life is entirely self imposed - it is part of human nature and the workings of the mind to value life and attach value to the actions we undertake. It is part of human nature to ignore the fact that life is futile, to convince oneself that your actions are worthwhile - ignorance is bliss.

    So, I've obtained good exam results, got into Oxford uni, captained the boat club etc... On a cursory inspection most people would say I'd got a good start in life. But on what grounds are such judgements made? Why is it good to perform well in exams, to go to a good university? Suppose instead I had dropped out of school, taken up petty crime, developed an alcohol habit etc... Why would that have been worse? Why would it be considered better for me to become a doctor rather than develop a heroine addiction? Indeed, on what grounds would you discourage me from suicide? (don't worry, I'm not being serious)

    Suppose I made the proposal that we send nukes all over the world and destroy the whole human race, why would that be a bad idea? Presumably it would be, right? Is there any rational argument available, or is it merely human nature that keeps us from recognising the absurdity of life?


    (I don't really know what response to expect, but please don't tell me to lighten up as I already know I need to!)
    Congratulations: you've just made the first, tentative step towards nihilism.
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    (Original post by mikesgt2)
    Why do I ask this thoroughly depressing question? While I am personally not at all depressed, I have never been able to remove the thought from my mind that life is ultimately futile. It seems to me that all meaning attached to life is entirely self imposed - it is part of human nature and the workings of the mind to value life and attach value to the actions we undertake. It is part of human nature to ignore the fact that life is futile, to convince oneself that your actions are worthwhile - ignorance is bliss.
    Ho hum. Have you read Nietzsche yet? :rolleyes:

    (Original post by mikesgt2)
    So, I've obtained good exam results, got into Oxford uni, captained the boat club etc... On a cursory inspection most people would say I'd got a good start in life. But on what grounds are such judgements made? Why is it good to perform well in exams, to go to a good university? Suppose instead I had dropped out of school, taken up petty crime, developed an alcohol habit etc... Why would that have been worse? Why would it be considered better for me to become a doctor rather than develop a heroine addiction? Indeed, on what grounds would you discourage me from suicide? (don't worry, I'm not being serious)
    I don't have to discourage you from suicide. But I can point out the difference between Oxford you and petty crime you. I'm not bothered about the alcohol, but if you committed petty crime you would be taking away the rights of others, interfering with other people's property and personhood.

    (Original post by mikesgt2)
    Suppose I made the proposal that we send nukes all over the world and destroy the whole human race, why would that be a bad idea? Presumably it would be, right? Is there any rational argument available, or is it merely human nature that keeps us from recognising the absurdity of life?
    1. Everyone should have property rights over themselves.
    2. If one has property rights over oneself, then another should respect those rights.
    3. If you dropped a nuclear weapon that destroys human life, you destroy the associated property - because a human cannot use the property of himself once he has died.
    4. It's immoral to kill everyone.
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    Wanting to live- personally because of all the experiences that are possible during life

    Fun experiences ie doing stuff that makes you tick, and other stuff, spiritual experiences. I dont go to church except on occasion, but without spirituality i would be empty. For me its in relationships with other living beings

    The way i see it is your here, appreciate the good bits, see your life almost as a project to work on. It generally passes quickly anyway

    As for meaning of life, meaning can be found in everyday stuff. A moment of intense connection with your partner where you are seen as simply yourself- something that has a profound effect on you both in a positive way etc. Thats precious

    Us members of the human condition are capable of understanding(perhaps only on a subconscious level) and feeling things that are so very worthwhile
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    (Original post by Laika)
    Do you ever think we've evolved to such a point that the human psyche cannot cope with life? If we are to place stock in the theory of evolution, then surely the goal of species is merely to survive and pro-create, whereas humans have evolved into such complex beings, that these primary functions have become secondary actions. We search for further meanig to life above and beyond those functions that evolution has taught us, but that search is ultimately futile, and thus we can only measure of life's meaning in terms of our accomplishment within society. But the value of 'accomplishing' within socieities expectations are surely driven for political reasons - to contribute well to society and produce wealth - goals not driven towards internal happiness but aesthetic and material gain. In summary, we'd all do well to jump off a cliff.
    Very good post & agree. We don't seem far away from destroying ourselves.
    It would be nice to come up with a 'purpose' to life.
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    (Original post by Paul Bedford)
    No

    And you don't think that contributions to society can bring internal happiness?

    You don't think that the act of evolving, achieving things, making the world better for other people, can bring internal happiness?

    I see nothing futile about our existance.

    You may jump if you wish, but my life has more purpose, I am happy, and I see much more evolution to come, I see much purpose in life in general, and have no desire to jump off a cliff.
    Good for you.
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    Perhaps it wouldnt. But what is the point of.....? is futilism, which although the only ideology derived from a priori knowledge, it results in circular logic and also destroys itself...what is the point of futilism? So you have to pick an arbitrary purpose based on axioms...otherwise you are following an impossible pattern of behaviour. You shouldnt do anything, because there's no point, You shouldnt not do anything, because there's no point. So arbitrary purposes which don't adhere to futilism have to be created to structure your time. Survival happens to be the most predominantly chosen one. If it werent, we probably wouldnt be here to ask the question.
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    (Original post by mikesgt2)
    Suppose I made the proposal that we send nukes all over the world and destroy the whole human race, why would that be a bad idea?
    Am I the only person to find this question fantastically intriguing?

    I have never thought of it. If the destruction of human beings was caused by another human then it'd clearly be immoral and unethical. But what if this was done by aliens? Would it be so wrong then? Since aliens are not humans, morality does not apply to them.
    Or suppose all human beings disappered NOW, what would happen? Nothing? Absolutely nothing. But why do we consider this thought so frightening? There has been a time no humans existed.

    (Original post by mikesgt2)
    So, I've obtained good exam results, got into Oxford uni, captained the boat club etc... On a cursory inspection most people would say I'd got a good start in life. But on what grounds are such judgements made? Why is it good to perform well in exams, to go to a good university? Suppose instead I had dropped out of school, taken up petty crime, developed an alcohol habit etc... Why would that have been worse? Why would it be considered better for me to become a doctor rather than develop a heroine addiction? Indeed, on what grounds would you discourage me from suicide? (don't worry, I'm not being serious)
    This on the other hand is just silly.
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    "There has been a time no humans existed".

    Is that a 'fact' or a presumption? There is a theory that anything 'exists' ony if it is observed.
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    (Original post by deedee7)
    "There has been a time no humans existed".

    Is that a 'fact' or a presumption? There is a theory that anything 'exists' ony if it is observed.
    Surely there has to be an external 'thing' in order to observe it in the first place. Otherwise everything is an internal product or imagination.

    Even if the world is not how we see the images in our head, we can be sure that the physical world exists.
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    (Original post by deedee7)
    "There has been a time no humans existed".

    Is that a 'fact' or a presumption? There is a theory that anything 'exists' ony if it is observed.
    It's not a fact.
    The Big Bang however suggests that the universe started 10-20 billion years ago where we come to a conclusion humans have not existed always and probably will cease to exist at some point (the Sun).
    In addition, the Quran, Bible and Torah all suggest God has created us, which also means we have not existed always.
    What was so wrong with saying that?
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    The planet would be better off if humans didn't exist.
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    (Original post by Byronic)
    The planet would be better off if humans didn't exist.
    No, the planet would be better off if the sort of humans who say stupid crap like this didn't exist.
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    (Original post by tommorris)
    No, the planet would be better off if the sort of humans who say stupid crap like this didn't exist.
    Go **** yourself.

    I never said the world would be a better place (Duh, there would be nobody here to make such a judgement). However, it is an undeniable fact that mother-nature is very happy without the fingers of humanity getting involved.
 
 
 
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