defnek
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#1
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I was wondering what you all thought about Flight Lieutenant Malcolm Kendall-Smith, the RAF doctor who refused to serve in Iraq becuase he thought the war was illegal. He was court marshalled and dismissed from service, and i think he was sent to prison for a few months. I think this was right, he signed the contract and he broke it. what do the rest of you think?

Also, what exactly goes on in the royal signals?
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alastair
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#2
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He was actually cour-martialled for dis-obeying a direct order to go for pre-deployment training. There is a bit of discussion about it in the Current Affairs thread.

Royal Signals provide the communications used in conflicts and normally.
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Shéamais
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(Original post by defnek)
Also, what exactly goes on in the royal signals?
What exactly goes on in the Royal Signals?

Well yeh they provide communications. But they also while on exercise sit in a n air conditioned wagon, watching DVDs and having as many brews as they want. And that's only the rankers.
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Rotters
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#4
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But they also while on exercise sit in a n air conditioned wagon, watching DVDs and having as many brews as they want. And that's only the rankers.
Jealous?
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Shéamais
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#5
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(Original post by Rotters)
Jealous?
I joined as a signaller, not what I wanted to do, so by choice when I commission want to go Infantry.
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Wzz
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#6
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This has a lot to do with Kendall-Smith, doesn't it? :rolleyes:
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Shéamais
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#7
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(Original post by defnek)
Also, what exactly goes on in the royal signals?
Wzz, Yeh I was think that was a rather random thing to add onto the Kendal-Smith bit.
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rugbyspaniel
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#8
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Kendall-Smith (note doesn't deserve to be called by his Ex-rank) has acted in my opinion, a cowardly manner, he knew when he joined up that he may have to serve in difficult situations and possibly war. KS was not forced to join the RAF he volunteered and accepted the high wages that RAF Doctors receive with the job and role that it brings.

Completing two tours in sunshine zones such as Kuwait and Quatar was easy for him but then when faced with a possible more difficult and hazardous tour of duty in Basra he becomes all conscientous!! a bit dodgy to me.

The forces are a disciplined organisation that need disciplined, organised officers with bags of moral courage, so that the troops can look up to them; Do you think the guys at the Battle of Britain or on the Somme really wanted to die? they did their job to the highest standard and put their lives on the line for the sake of others, whether they thought it was legal or not. He gets no respect from any serving personnel that I know.

He should of done the honourable thing and resigned his commission at the build up to the war and made his feelings known then, not after he had taken the pay - taxpayers cash whilst serving in an easy Med Centre and two cushy tours.

He should have been locked up longer to act as a deterrent and show that the forces do not agree with the cowardly act that this man has done and also took back the wages he has been paid whilst sorting out his defence.
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puk2184
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#9
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I agree. I believe when you sign up to join any of the forces, you have to be prepared to do your job - even if this means being involved in a conflict that you don't agree with morally. More so with him being a doctor; unlikely he'd be involved in direct conflict but highly likely his medical knowledge would've helped. I've no respect for him.
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reggie_boy
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#10
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(Original post by rugbyspaniel)
Kendall-Smith (note doesn't deserve to be called by his Ex-rank) has acted in my opinion, a cowardly manner, he knew when he joined up that he may have to serve in difficult situations and possibly war. KS was not forced to join the RAF he volunteered and accepted the high wages that RAF Doctors receive with the job and role that it brings.

Completing two tours in sunshine zones such as Kuwait and Quatar was easy for him but then when faced with a possible more difficult and hazardous tour of duty in Basra he becomes all conscientous!! a bit dodgy to me.

The forces are a disciplined organisation that need disciplined, organised officers with bags of moral courage, so that the troops can look up to them; Do you think the guys at the Battle of Britain or on the Somme really wanted to die? they did their job to the highest standard and put their lives on the line for the sake of others, whether they thought it was legal or not. He gets no respect from any serving personnel that I know.

He should of done the honourable thing and resigned his commission at the build up to the war and made his feelings known then, not after he had taken the pay - taxpayers cash whilst serving in an easy Med Centre and two cushy tours.

He should have been locked up longer to act as a deterrent and show that the forces do not agree with the cowardly act that this man has done and also took back the wages he has been paid whilst sorting out his defence.
Here Here.
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NecAsperaTerrent
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#11
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I have known rugbyspaniel for a number of years and have found that on most subjects we either agree strongly, or disagree strongly. There is no midlle ground.

I agree with most of his comments above, however would not have wasted quite so many words on the coward.

I'd have used three letters...

LMF
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TonyL
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#12
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I have been in the RAF for over 20 years now and getting sent away for 4 months at a time has never gotten any easier. But that is what we do..

He challenged the system and got what he deserved.
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spunk trumpet
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#13
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(Original post by Tonylott)
I have been in the RAF for over 20 years now and getting sent away for 4 months at a time has never gotten any easier. But that is what we do..

He challenged the system and got what he deserved.
Are RAF tours only 4 months? Or is that only for scab pickers?
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Wzz
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#14
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(Original post by spunk trumpet)
Are RAF tours only 4 months? Or is that only for scab pickers?
Tours may be longer than 4 months, but deployments generally aren't. Same for all the services.
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Shéamais
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#15
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(Original post by Wzz)
Tours may be longer than 4 months, but deployments generally aren't. Same for all the services.
Deployment is time in theatre? Most of the army do 6 months in Iraq, minus R+R, then there's OPTAG and leave as well so works out about 9months for the whole thing - is that a tour?
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spunk trumpet
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#16
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(Original post by DPM)
Deployment is time in theatre? Most of the army do 6 months in Iraq, minus R+R, then there's OPTAG and leave as well so works out about 9months for the whole thing - is that a tour?
It is for a STAB ATM. Mobilisation is 9 months, time in theatre is 6 months (+ climatisation?). Provided that us part timers are doing the same pre deployment as our full time colleagues then we have the same "tour" as them.
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Wzz
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#17
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(Original post by DPM)
Deployment is time in theatre? Most of the army do 6 months in Iraq, minus R+R, then there's OPTAG and leave as well so works out about 9months for the whole thing - is that a tour?
No. A tour is time in a specific job; i.e. OC GD Flt at RAF Somewhere, an air traffic controller at RAF Somewhereelse, a pilot on 4394839 Sqn, a platoon commander with X Coy the Royal Whoevers etc.

Within this tour, you may find yourself deployed out of area. Hence our air trafficker, spending 3 years on a tour as a controller at RAF Somewhereelse, may get a signal telling him to pack his bags and attend pre deployment training as he's off to Basra in a few months. He goes there, acclimatises, does 3-4 months then comes home to finish his tour.
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TomD
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#18
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#18
Or he gets posted out of his current job to an overseas detachment area, receives an OJAR for the pleasure (if 6 months) or a detachment insert slip (if longer than 30 days but less than 6 months), which can still count as an annual appraisal, and then gets posted into another job on his return - that would be classed as a tour surely not!
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TonyL
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#19
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#19
(Original post by spunk trumpet)
Are RAF tours only 4 months? Or is that only for scab pickers?

LOL What is a scab picker?
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GR4pilot
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#20
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#20
Looking at Kendal-Smith's argument I think some of the comments made are a little unfair. I know that he was convicted of cowerdice but his piont is a fair one; the war with Iraq was of definately questionable legality - the commission holds him to refuse illegal orders etc etc. So if this were to have happened at the outbreak of war or before I believe he would have been justified.

However as far as all were concerned at the time the war was perfectly legit; and this little episode didn't happen until after the war proper had ended and a legal UN action was in progress. Thus Kendal-Smith wasn't disobeying an illegal order (as would arguably have be the case in 2003) but a legal one - thus it was totally justified to kick him out.
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