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naivesincerity
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#41
Report 12 years ago
#41
(Original post by walshie)
You will also notice that those boxers who have respect always go on to succeed. Those that don't, fail.
Surely it's vice versa, they get respected 'cos of how good they've proven themselves to be?
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Né Stig
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#42
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#42
That's just it. Those with respect go on to succeed. They win the fights because they take it seriously and don't go bad mouthing opponents and treat them with equal respect. That is a professional boxer. Those normally win the fights against opponents who are 'all talk, and no action'.

There is very few of them. Can honestly say there has only been a few:
- Naseem Hamad (cocky sod - but was good)
- Mayweather (one of the best)

Look what happened to Naseem Hamad when he boasted about beating Barerra black and blue? - he got beat becasue he knew he was a strong candidate. It a bit like the bully meets his match.

Real boxers take the sport extremely seriously and have very high respect of their opponents. You get taught that from a young age with the right coaching. Those that don't get brought into the limelight too fast.

- Jeff Lacy was another who was supposed to rip Calzaghe's head off. Did he? Nope - he got beaten so badly, the fight shoudl have been stopped by his cornermen.
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Alan Smithee
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#43
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#43
(Original post by walshie)

As for Judah knocking out Hatton - don't think so. Judah couldn't live with Tszyu, how do you think he will live with Hatton?
Oh yes, because I forgot Hatton has a punch like Kostya's.

Have you ever heard of the adage; 'styles make fights'?
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Né Stig
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#44
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#44
(Original post by Platocrates)
Oh yes, because I forgot Hatton has a punch like Kostya's.

Have you ever heard of the adage; 'styles make fights'?
Every person Zab Judah has fought, he has ended up losing against:
- Carlos Baldomir
- Kostya Tszyu
- Maywaeather
- Corey Spinks

Even Junior Witter took him the distance before a unanimous decision. Zab is a fake, and Hatton would expose him badly. Just my opinion, so don't bite my head off.

Name me a reputable fighter that Zab has beaten when they were in their prime, because I can't think of any?

I'm not on the bandwagon of Hatton, I have just been watching him for some time, and his record is second to none. Zab has had a beating! Even the ref would of had him had his trainer not intervened!
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Alan Smithee
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#45
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#45
(Original post by walshie)

Even Junior Witter took him the distance before a unanimous decision.
This shows me you have probably never boxed in your life. If you DO know what it's like to box someone negative who doesn't want to get hit then this is an unusual comment. If however, you DON'T know what it's like then it's a mere 'armchair boxing fan' comment and most likely based on ignorance.

Name me a reputable fighter that Zab has beaten when they were in their prime, because I can't think of any?
Cory Spinks KO 9.

DeMarcus Corley PTS 12.
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Né Stig
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#46
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#46
Corley has, like Zab, lost to anyone worth their sort.

Sorry; who has Hatton lost to again?

To say fighting negatively is beneficial to Witter is laughable. If he was so negative, any boxer worth their sort would of taken him to the cleaners. They see an opportunity and grab it. A unanimous decision is not good, and Witter is far stronger now anyway, so I'd very much like to see him take on Zab again.

Zab fans are normally blind anyway - if you can seriously rate Zab on those 2 fights, it just about shows how bad he actually is. If you mentioned Kostya or Coralles, then I would respect a hidden talent that I have never seen. I have watched many a video of Zab against mediocre opponents.
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Alan Smithee
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#47
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#47
I don't rate Zab at all. I think he is a great athletic talent with mediocre boxing skills.

Witter fought negatively in that fight because he had no intention of trying to win. This is because it was too early for him and it was more for the money and experience. I never said it was a good thing, what I was intimating was that if you have ever fought someone that doesn't want to get hit and isn't throwing anything back, it's extremely difficult to do anything with them.

Have you ever seen guys who are so awkward and elusive that they can make ANY fighter look bad? Witter is one of those fighters.

Like I said, from your comments I assume you have never been in the ring so you will find it difficult to understand. Ask any decent fighter who the worst type of people to fight are.

Hatton has fought ONE championship class fighter in his whole career - Tszyu. He had been out for a year so he was hardly at the top of his form. Not to take anything away from Ricky, but that fight was all about the right timing. He fought Collazo and look what happened! He nearly lost (I thought he did) to a guy nobody had heard of. Hatton is not a great fighter by anyone's reckoning. He is super fit and tough. That's about it for me.
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Né Stig
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#48
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#48
(Original post by Platocrates)
I don't rate Zab at all. I think he is a great athletic talent with mediocre boxing skills.

Witter fought negatively in that fight because he had no intention of trying to win. This is because it was too early for him and it was more for the money and experience. I never said it was a good thing, what I was intimating was that if you have ever fought someone that doesn't want to get hit and isn't throwing anything back, it's extremely difficult to do anything with them.

Have you ever seen guys who are so awkward and elusive that they can make ANY fighter look bad? Witter is one of those fighters.

Like I said, from your comments I assume you have never been in the ring so you will find it difficult to understand. Ask any decent fighter who the worst type of people to fight are.

Hatton has fought ONE championship class fighter in his whole career - Tszyu. He had been out for a year so he was hardly at the top of his form. Not to take anything away from Ricky, but that fight was all about the right timing. He fought Collazo and look what happened! He nearly lost (I thought he did) to a guy nobody had heard of. Hatton is not a great fighter by anyone's reckoning. He is super fit and tough. That's about it for me.
4th paragraph - wrong. Look at the 1st page of this thread.

So erm - I'm sorry bud, but the training I done was based more so on respect and athleticism. I was given the chance to take up either Boxing or Judo as a kid. I did Judo, and couldn't quite get the timide approach. I used to have kids moan about me and my brother being a bit too strong for them! It was more like a pilates class. So we opted for Boxing instead down near where my parents live
Did it until I was 15 and gave it up because Friday night drinking with my mates was too much of a weakness. :laugh:

Have you ever done it? And where?
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Alan Smithee
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#49
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#49
Yeah but I mean competitively. Have you ever lived it?

If you have you would know what it's like to fight unorthodox switch hitters. Even if you are Zab Judah.

Go watch Roy Jones vs Montell Griffin I and you will know what I mean.
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Né Stig
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#50
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#50
(Original post by Platocrates)
Yeah but I mean competitively. Have you ever lived it?

If you have you would know what it's like to fight unorthodox switch hitters. Even if you are Zab Judah.

Go watch Roy Jones vs Montell Griffin I and you will know what I mean.
No. Never went fully into the amateur boxing bouts like so many around me in the Gym.
Mother thought of boxing as a defensive sport, not something whereby we should be offensive to others. Basically she never allowed us to go on to do a proper contest. I was 14 at the time, and my school wouldn't of been impressed with 2 black eyes.

Rounds were short; IIRC something like 90 secs a round, and there was only 3 of them. The whole boxing scene was geared to fitness. I made some fantastic mates though; ones that you want on your side!

So, no you could say I'm quite naive when it comes to fully comitting yourself.

So then, like I said, have you ever done it?
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Alan Smithee
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#51
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#51
Yes.
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Klinsmannic
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#52
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#52
(Original post by naivesincerity)
Can I come on to say the thing that boxing fans detest? There's no dignity in it, it's a sport for bloodthirsty sickos to watch etc etc. Muhammed Ali?? The man's such a legend, so I'm told by every tom, **** and harry.:rolleyes: No, he's a fool who beats people up for a living and look how he's turned out. A cautionary tale I think.
The characters in Boxing are just as important as the fights themselves, hence the bulid-up. Boxing has evolved from bare-knuckle where it was truly a bloodthirsty fight to the death. Every single boxing fan detests serious injury or, in the rare instance, death in the modern ring. Boxing is a game of skill and has moved on from it's earlier roots with a lot more protection for fighters. The gloves for a start, medics and doctors following the fighters everywhere, gum shields, protection, responsible referees etc. Me and most fans I've come accross will suppost their favourite, similar to any other sport. If a referee feels stopping a fight is in the interest of safety, boxing fans won't mind as long as their guy wins or put up a good fight. Boxing fans (there are a lot of us in the real world) watch boxing because it's a remnant of days gone by, traditional yet skillful encounters pitting guys against each other- fighting has been around for thousands of years. We don't all love watching people smack tennis balls back and forth over a net as hard as possible. The level of skill exhibitted by boxers is immense, you need to be a genius in the ring to be considered as one of the greats.

Ali was a legend because of his character in addition to his talent as a boxer. He's arguably the most charasmatic sportsman ever, and the various films of his life draw attention to his character before his boxing, however good he was. Parkinson didn't want any old boxer to come on his show, he wanted the persona of Ali. Same with Eubank, he's not a tv personality for his boxing but for his character. A lot of fans are endeered to the character in addition to the boxer. These are what help to make boxing even more appealing than it is already.
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naivesincerity
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#53
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#53
(Original post by Klinsmannic)
Ali was a legend because of his character in addition to his talent as a boxer. He's arguably the most charasmatic sportsman ever, and the various films of his life draw attention to his character before his boxing, however good he was. Parkinson didn't want any old boxer to come on his show, he wanted the persona of Ali. Same with Eubank, he's not a tv personality for his boxing but for his character. A lot of fans are endeered to the character in addition to the boxer. These are what help to make boxing even more appealing than it is already.
I've thought about what you've said, but I think it appeals to base instincts and is a bad thing-put it this way, I wouldn't be proud to enjoy it. As for the bit about Ali, I guess it's just down to personal tastes, but I really don't ever side with the man or find him 'charismatic'
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Né Stig
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#54
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#54
(Original post by naivesincerity)
I've thought about what you've said, but I think it appeals to base instincts and is a bad thing-put it this way, I wouldn't be proud to enjoy it. As for the bit about Ali, I guess it's just down to personal tastes, but I really don't ever side with the man or find him 'charismatic'
Getting beaten up in the ring is not as bad as running out of energy.
You will see most boxers hitting their opponents ribs or stomach to draw out the energy from their opponent. Once done with accuracy, even a simple clean punch to the facial area will see the opponent take a knee or fall due to energy levels deteriorating. The boxer most of the time is just knackered and not so much in pain. Pain doesn't come into it in the ring.

When a boxer gets knocked out, he does so because he's either very unstable, low on energy due to the wind being taken out of him. Of course pain is a factor, but not as much as people think. I've been dying to use this excuse to post this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o7A3...kostya%20Tszyu

A classic example of Zab getting knocked the hell out! but he was because he was unbalanced and not because he was brutally hurt.

So the moral of the story - it's not about physically hurting your opponent as much as possible, but being able to out-box them so you gain more points and being able to use your defence as best as possible to protect your score. Rememebr - its pound for pound.
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Né Stig
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#55
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#55
Calzaghe hurting his hand again is an amazing acheivement.
Glen Johnson is now going to go on the glory trail stating how Calzaghe is avoiding him :rolleyes:

To be honest, Calzaghe should have never taken a fight with such short notice. It's better that he does have time to prepare for a select opponent.

And the Americans are making me laugh with their wage demands. Calzaghe is on top of his division ,and they are still demanding more dosh. Roy Jones Jnr - gonna', Johnson - gonna'.

The only great fight out their for Calzaghe is Ronald Wright. Calzaghe should then retire.
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"Hurricane"
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#56
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#56
Guys, I think we should add a poll to this thread. A poll like who do you think is the greatest boxer ever.
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"Hurricane"
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#57
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#57
Here is a list of the world's greatest boxers:
http://www.wanderlist.com/EAGLE
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Alan Smithee
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#58
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#58
That list in nonsense.
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"Hurricane"
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#59
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#59
(Original post by Platocrates)
That list in nonsense.
What!!!!:eek:
These are the best of the best of all times.
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Né Stig
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#60
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#60
(Original post by Platocrates)
That list in nonsense.
Explain?

I know it's hardly an exhaustive list, but many listed are still the finest pound for pound fighters you will ever likely to see. There has not been any major modern day wonders, and I think Mayweather Jnr would only appear in that list if he overcomes a few more tough cookies without loss. The fact that so many old fighters (like Chavez) boxed so many times, is a true class.

- Oh, both Sugar Ray's are there
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