The Student Room Group

Cambridge: academically superior to Oxford - but still a worse university

As an Oxford student who knows a lot of Tabs, it seems with every month I discover another fact which suggests that, academically, the filth are just on another level. Going through it on a (major) subject by subjct basis:

Maths: Tabs way ahead, the most respected undergrad course in the world. Have a special exam to justify it!

Sciences: Tabs have a notoriously difficult course with six days of lectures a week, and loads of depth. Again, more respected than Oxford and again I'd argue the most respected in the world.

Engineering: I'm not to sure about this. I've heard the Tab course is more respected but don't really know.

Medicine: Not on such sure ground but from what I've heard at Oxford, our medics think the Tabs work harder.

So in the sciences the Tabs are way ahead, everyone knows that. But I can't see much justification for Oxford's supposed advantage in the arts:

Economics: Oxford teaches this with hardly any of the mathematical riguor needed for research and which the Tabs have.

Politics: Oxford is ahead here, at least in terms of prestige. No idea about the rigour of PPE/MHP vs SPS.

Philosophy: I'd guess Cambridge is ahead here too as Oxford doesn't teach this as a single school.

English: No idea.

History: At Oxford history is rightly known as a complete doss of a course, whereas my friend at Cambridge is working her butt off because they just have much more work than us.

Law: No idea, though the Oxford course is tough.

Classics: This is the last properly tough course at Oxford so far as I'm concerned, and Oxford does hold a genuine advantage here so far as I know.

Geography: Don't know personally, but the only person I know who studied Geography said the Cambridge course was much better.

Languages: Don't know. Oxford course has a year out for no useful reason though, not great!

So in toto Cambridge seems significantly more academically rigurous than Oxford. But perhaps as a result of this, it falls short in other areas. The extra-curricular scene at Oxford seems considerably more vibrant. The student newspapers and the Union are much more successful in Oxford. My experience has seen far more Oxford students wandering about the City, and this is reflected in the Graduate of the Year awards, which have seen four out of 14 Oxford finalists (including a winner and two runners up) in the last year and no Tabs. If you're not going to be an academic, which most of us aren't...it seems it's still Dark Blues by 5 lengths...

Scroll to see replies

Reply 1
I don't quite understand why the oxford union is so much busier than the cambridge union. Personally I see little point in the union - they hold a lot of talks with some well known faces appearing occasionally, but other than that they dont offer anything I can't get elsewhere. So what is it the oxford union offers which makes it such a draw?
Reply 2
While I would agree with the general sentiment, and completely agree on the sciences, I think you've done Oxford arts down a little. Simply because Oxford does combinations that it thinks works rather than single subjects doesn't make them worse courses.

Isaiah Berlin
Politics: Oxford is ahead here, at least in terms of prestige. No idea about the rigour of PPE/MHP vs SPS.

I'd say Oxford is as far ahead as Cambridge is in maths. PPE is one of the most respected degrees in the country, yet a couple of years ago every single SPS undergrad signed a petition about the bad tuition they'd had. I'm sure it's improved a lot, but the difference is still marked.

Isaiah Berlin
Philosophy: I'd guess Cambridge is ahead here too as Oxford doesn't teach this as a single school.

However Oxford's still higher ranked. Cambridge only does it as a single course, whereas Oxford has it as a part of three courses, with Maths & Phil and PPE regarded as some of Oxford's very best courses. I don't think you can say Oxford's behind.

Isaiah Berlin
Languages: Don't know. Oxford course has a year out for no useful reason though, not great!

I think years our for languages are brilliant, which is why they're used almost anywhere. When learning a language, there's no experience like speaking it solidly, with native speakers, for a year.

Isaiah Berlin
So in toto Cambridge seems significantly more academically rigurous than Oxford. But perhaps as a result of this, it falls short in other areas. The extra-curricular scene at Oxford seems considerably more vibrant. The student newspapers and the Union are much more successful in Oxford. My experience has seen far more Oxford students wandering about the City, and this is reflected in the Graduate of the Year awards, which have seen four out of 14 Oxford finalists (including a winner and two runners up) in the last year and no Tabs. If you're not going to be an academic, which most of us aren't...it seems it's still Dark Blues by 5 lengths...

I think this is spot on. As much as the courses aren't, Oxford's geared up better towards practical careers. To go with the politics reputation, we have a far better used Union that acts as a springboard for many aspiring politicians. To go with economics and management based courses we have entrepreneurship and business societies that do far more than at Cambridge. Even the way we have half applied questions on the core, theoretical economics exams.

I wouldn't say Cambridge is a worse university, but I would say it's both academically superior (overall) and extra-curricular-wise/practically inferior. Although I think this is more by ethos than design: it's not that Cambridge students are taught better, it's that they have a higher workload, leading to less time for ECs. Perhaps that's because of tutors, perhaps it's even because the type of students who are there, or the lack of already set up societies and clubs and bars that leads to more time being spent on work. They're different, but which is better depends on what you want to do after, and what subject you study.
Reply 3
Thanks IB for dispelling all them there stereotypes :rolleyes: Useful as ever.
Reply 4
Willa
I don't quite understand why the oxford union is so much busier than the cambridge union. Personally I see little point in the union - they hold a lot of talks with some well known faces appearing occasionally, but other than that they dont offer anything I can't get elsewhere. So what is it the oxford union offers which makes it such a draw?

The bar - cheapest in Oxford, the facilities, having better speakers, and the fact that almost everyone joins. Balls, speakers, debates and other events are only open to members and if your friends are members, you want to go to. Plus the publicity - everybody knows about the Oxford Union, both from it's history and the freshers handbook/newspaper ads and everything else they do.
Reply 5
Well as far as there being no point in a year out for languages - if there's no point then why does almost every single university do it? What could be more useful than being full submerged? I think I became more fluent in 2 weeks in Germany than I did studying it for 2 years

As far as sciences - I think the fact that at Ox you actually specialise in the science you want to study is a massive advantage - far more depth.
Reply 6
Isaiah Berlin
So in the sciences the Tabs are way ahead, everyone knows that. But I can't see much justification for Oxford's supposed advantage in the arts:

Economics: Oxford teaches this with hardly any of the mathematical riguor needed for research and which the Tabs have.

I think Cambridge is better for preparing you for an academic career in economics while Oxford is better for preparing you for a generally economics or business-related career.

Isaiah Berlin
Politics: Oxford is ahead here, at least in terms of prestige. No idea about the rigour of PPE/MHP vs SPS.

Fair point.

Isaiah Berlin
Philosophy: I'd guess Cambridge is ahead here too as Oxford doesn't teach this as a single school.

Like Drogue said, the fact that Cambridge offers a single course doesn't make it better. Personally, I think philosophy for philosophy's sake sounds a little bit pointless! It obviously is useful when you take the ideas and apply them to real problems, though.

Isaiah Berlin
English: No idea.

History: At Oxford history is rightly known as a complete doss of a course, whereas my friend at Cambridge is working her butt off because they just have much more work than us.

Both of these seem to have a good rep at Cambridge, but for some reason I think I'd prefer to study them at Oxford, purely because Oxford seems like the place to study those sorts of things... I'm shallow.

And for the record... History is a doss subject in Cambridge as well. :wink::p:

Isaiah Berlin
Law: No idea, though the Oxford course is tough.

Again, my natural tendency would be to choose Oxford, although some people have told me they work harder at Cambridge, apart from in the final year.

Isaiah Berlin
Classics: This is the last properly tough course at Oxford so far as I'm concerned, and Oxford does hold a genuine advantage here so far as I know.

I'd give Oxford the advantage because they have a bigger department, although both universities have a very good reputation.

Isaiah Berlin
Geography: Don't know personally, but the only person I know who studied Geography said the Cambridge course was much better.

Cambridge wins hands down. I've heard that many times. But then... it's geography - does anyone really care?

Isaiah Berlin
Languages: Don't know. Oxford course has a year out for no useful reason though, not great!

I've heard Cambridge is better for modern languages, although I don't know what the differences are. Both involve a year out before finals, though.

Isaiah Berlin
So in toto Cambridge seems significantly more academically rigurous than Oxford. But perhaps as a result of this, it falls short in other areas. The extra-curricular scene at Oxford seems considerably more vibrant. The student newspapers and the Union are much more successful in Oxford. My experience has seen far more Oxford students wandering about the City, and this is reflected in the Graduate of the Year awards, which have seen four out of 14 Oxford finalists (including a winner and two runners up) in the last year and no Tabs. If you're not going to be an academic, which most of us aren't...it seems it's still Dark Blues by 5 lengths...

How much of this is just hearsay? I think Cambridge has a pretty vibrant social scene to be honest. It's arguably got a better drama scene than Oxford, and we do have two student newspapers (Varsity and TCS). The Union is definitely doing less well in Cambridge, though for what reason I don't know. Aside from that, everyone gets involved in sports and all the usual societies, so what's the difference? A few less hacks, perhaps... shame. :rolleyes:
Reply 7
RichE
Thanks IB for dispelling all them there stereotypes :rolleyes: Useful as ever.


I'm not going to apologise for posting a thought provoking and reasonably original thread amidst the sea of turgid, trivial, could've-googled-it-in-20-seconds question that dominate this forum.

If you think I'm wrong - prove it. I'll be very happy to find out more.
Reply 8
Bekaboo

As far as sciences - I think the fact that at Ox you actually specialise in the science you want to study is a massive advantage - far more depth.


I was led to believe that at the end of a Cambridge NatSci degree you'd covered as much material in your final subject as any other student at another university would have done? The reason why it's so intense is that they have to develop the level of depth as well as breadth.

I'm not really into Cambridge's university-wide EC scene, as it's not my thing - I have no aspirations to become a city-whore management consultant and can't stand politicians. I am a member of the Union but haven't been since first year because most of my friends aren't interested, and the more I see of it, the more it seems to just be full of power-happy self-obsessed types trying to get CV points by stabbing each other in the back.
Out of interest Helenia, what do you actually do, and how do you find time to moderate this forum too?
sTe\/o
How much of this is just hearsay? I think Cambridge has a pretty vibrant social scene to be honest. It's arguably got a better drama scene than Oxford, and we do have two student newspapers (Varsity and TCS). The Union is definitely doing less well in Cambridge, though for what reason I don't know. Aside from that, everyone gets involved in sports and all the usual societies, so what's the difference? A few less hacks, perhaps... shame. :rolleyes:


Not that much. I can't remember a year when Oxford's two student newspapers didn't both get nominations for national awards; I can't remember ever seeing TCS or Varsity do the same. TCS/Varsity have people who sit on both editorial boards ffs - unimaginable in the intensely competitive world of Oxford student journalism.

The Oxford Union is substantially better in terms of speakers, debates, scale, resources, and student interest, despite what you may hear.

Drogue is in a better position to know than most (Ox student with ex-Tab bro) about his speciality, which is business/economics societies and he thinks we're way ahead. National awards once again agree. My pooled knowledge of competitive internships suggests a similar trend.

Your argument is interesting in the respect that Drogue and I both have fairly similar perspectives on this, in terms of interest in 'the real world'. But ultimately, that is where most Oxbridge students will end up, and consequently, it is very important.

My title was deliberately provoking, but I think it is both interesting and valuable to highlight slighty contrasts in ethos. I know people who admit the Oxford course is inferior to Cambridge but they came here because of the EC opportunities. They've done hugely well out of their decision.
Reply 11
Isaiah Berlin
I'm not going to apologise for posting a thought provoking and reasonably original thread amidst the sea of turgid, trivial, could've-googled-it-in-20-seconds question that dominate this forum.

If you think I'm wrong - prove it. I'll be very happy to find out more.


Clearly if you'd wanted thought-provoking you should have studied at Cambridge.
There's more to life than academics RichE. Despite what some tutors say :wink:
Reply 13
For the record, SPS is a load of pap. From what I've read it's as much anthropology and Psychology as PPE, and an inferior mix to boot. Nothing like the quality and rigour of the Oxford version.

Tutor I've met who's taught at both says that Oxford history has the edge, but only just.

A minor point: Cambridge, I believe, has a branch of Respect Coalition. Bizarre and a little bit embarrassing.
Reply 14
Drogue
The bar - cheapest in Oxford, the facilities, having better speakers, and the fact that almost everyone joins. Balls, speakers, debates and other events are only open to members and if your friends are members, you want to go to. Plus the publicity - everybody knows about the Oxford Union, both from it's history and the freshers handbook/newspaper ads and everything else they do.


Some of the college bars in cambridge (e.g. emma's) are pretty much the cheapest around? Are oxford college bars student run or not? Could that be why it's more expensive? I would say my college bar is plenty cheap, hence why the union's bar is hardly a draw.
The facilities of cambridge union arent great either, but perhaps that's because there isn't the demand for them since most colleges seem perfectly capable of providing great facilities. Perhaps that's a product of the larger colleges here.
I dont think cambridge union getting better speakers will draw more people, not to the level of participation at the oxford union.

So are we saying that at cambridge, the colleges are capable of providing what the oxford union does in oxford, which oxford colleges do not?
Reply 15
Platocrates
Out of interest Helenia, what do you actually do, and how do you find time to moderate this forum too?


Medicine, I presume.
Willa
Some of the college bars in cambridge (e.g. emma's) are pretty much the cheapest around? Are oxford college bars student run or not? Could that be why it's more expensive? I would say my college bar is plenty cheap, hence why the union's bar is hardly a draw.
The facilities of cambridge union arent great either, but perhaps that's because there isn't the demand for them since most colleges seem perfectly capable of providing great facilities. Perhaps that's a product of the larger colleges here.
I dont think cambridge union getting better speakers will draw more people, not to the level of participation at the oxford union.

So are we saying that at cambridge, the colleges are capable of providing what the oxford union does in oxford, which oxford colleges do not?


No, we're emphatically not. You've just decided to focus on one point (about which I think you're wrong anyway - no college provides the sort of speakers the Union does, nor balls every term, nor free club entry, and I'd be surprised if a majority provide a bar open almost all day with £1 pints and food) whereas the discussion is much more general.
Reply 17
Isaiah Berlin
Not that much. I can't remember a year when Oxford's two student newspapers didn't both get nominations for national awards; I can't remember ever seeing TCS or Varsity do the same. TCS/Varsity have people who sit on both editorial boards ffs - unimaginable in the intensely competitive world of Oxford student journalism.

The Oxford Union is substantially better in terms of speakers, debates, scale, resources, and student interest, despite what you may hear.


Cambridge has always been a very competitive place. It's supposed to have grown out of the Maths Tripos or something. Perhaps it's a little less like that in Oxford, though I wouldn't know.

I am well aware that the Union is better at Oxford, and probably more internationally famous as well. I just think it's a little odd, considering that our Union is:

1) the original,
2) located in the centre of town,
3) just as successful in debating championships.

I think it must be because the Oxford Union have catered to what students want. The Oxford Union even has its own club. The best the Cambridge Union can offer is a Ben and Jerry's evening, which involves queuing for hours just to get one (small) tub of ice cream. The CU is a bit of a waste of money, but alas I have a life membership. Anyway, you can't condemn the whole 'scene' at Cambridge based on the Union, since it is simply not an important part of Cambridge life for most students.

Isaiah Berlin
Drogue is in a better position to know than most (Ox student with ex-Tab bro) about his speciality, which is business/economics societies and he thinks we're way ahead. National awards once again agree. My pooled knowledge of competitive internships suggests a similar trend.

Cambridge economists get absolutely loads of attention. Have you heard of Cambridge Futures? We also have the most successful Careers Service in the country, whereas the Oxford one is by all accounts failing. This is direct from someone who works in the Cambridge Careers Service, but there is hard evidence to prove it if you google the subject.

Isaiah Berlin
Your argument is interesting in the respect that Drogue and I both have fairly similar perspectives on this, in terms of interesting in 'the real world'. But ultimately, that is where most Oxbridge students will end up, and consequently, it is very important.

To be honest, I think both degrees will get you into any area you want, whether that be an academic or a 'real-world' job. The question should be 'what kind of course are you more interested in?', not 'which type of job will you probably end up in?'. I don't believe there is any evidence that Oxford economists have more success in landing internships, as the Cambridge economists I know have had no trouble getting them in the top companies.

Isaiah Berlin
My title was deliberately provoking, but I think it is both interesting and valuable to highlight slighty contrasts in ethos. I know people who admit the Oxford course is inferior to Cambridge but they came here because of the EC opportunities. They've done hugely well out of their decision.

I think it's a good debate and I have no qualms about people starting these kinds of threads (not that I have any say in the matter :p:). Better than the "are my GCSEs good enough?" threads!
Reply 18
Isaiah Berlin
(Ox student with ex-Tab bro)

While I hate to nit-pick, a current Tab brother - 6th year now (2nd year PhD).

Willa
Some of the college bars in cambridge (e.g. emma's) are pretty much the cheapest around? Are oxford college bars student run or not? Could that be why it's more expensive? I would say my college bar is plenty cheap, hence why the union's bar is hardly a draw.

Many here are student run, some aren't. They are very cheap too - ~£1.20-1.70 a pint, in a city where £2.70 a pint is common. The union is £1 a pint. Our college bars aren't more expensive, but the Union is *very* cheap. When you pay £150 for membership, the facilities aren't set up to make profits.

Willa
I dont think cambridge union getting better speakers will draw more people, not to the level of participation at the oxford union.

Depends how good. Some nights the Oxford Union isn't buzzing, simply because the speaker isn't that big a name. However when a national President or world famous star comes to speak, it gets packed very quickly.

Willa
So are we saying that at cambridge, the colleges are capable of providing what the oxford union does in oxford, which oxford colleges do not?

I would dispute that. What do Cambridge colleges provide that Oxford ones don't? Cheap bar, a JCR, bops 2-4 times a term, hall, library, computers... anything else Cambridge ones provide?

The big draw at the Union are the speakers and debates. That's what draws the big crowds, that's what they publicise and that's what made it famous. I didn't pay £150 for a cheap bar, cheap club and snooker hall, I paid it to see very famous people speak and watch/take part in debates about interesting topics with world-reknowned speakers. Adnd for the 5-10 times a term social events :smile:
By the way, Stevo - I notice a spirited fight from you on the Tab EC side, but no disagreement that the Tabs are more academic!