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i am askink everybody in this board to read this specially "adhsur" ..thank you watch

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    Hi everybody here
    Firstly , thank you because you cared to read this and secondly , I’m a new member here and hope you will welcome me ..
    I visited this board by total chance and I read what you wrote about Islam , then I got this feeling that you are seeking the truth about the reality of Islam .I felt it’s my duty to say what I know and may be I can show you the truth . Most of what was written is not true at all although it makes a sense . if you wonder how this can be possible I will tell you . the bad things that are mentioned about Islam are not related to Islam but they made the look of Islam in your western society very bad . This is true . Most of the opinions that I read in this board are against Islam in someway and most of you believe that Islam is bad . I feel shamed to say the Muslims themselves who gave it this bad view but this is the truth . what you see there is not Islam .please don’t let what you see some Muslims do there hide the truth . Islam is so sublime , pure , sensitive , perfect and suitable for anybody anywhere and anytime .
    I swear I’m not saying this because I want to compete with anybody or just to prove I’m right or just having fun here . no, I swear this is not my purpose.. what I really seek is to move something inside anyone of you and this will be my biggest reward .
    So , you are all welcome to ask me any question about Islam , contact me , and I hope you welcome me here as a new member and as a friend ..
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    I'm sure the Koran says something about striking down non believers, doesn't sound such a peaceful religion to me.
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    (Original post by corey)
    I'm sure the Koran says something about striking down non believers, doesn't sound such a peaceful religion to me.
    It is unfair to judge any religion by what it says in its religous texts. Just because the Koran, the Bible or whatever has violent passages in them (and how violent the Bible can be!), does not mean that the people who follow that religion are violent, or that the religion itself is violent. Everything must be understood in the context of its time. Nobody, except for fundamentalists, follows the words of any religous texts word for word. The reason? They would only end up contradicting themselves.

    All religion is subjective. It exists in the minds of those who follow it not in the texts that supposedly preach it - therefore it is impossible to label and religion in its entirity as 'violent' or 'peaceful'.
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    (Original post by piginapoke)
    I don't personally believe Islam is violent, despite the misleading quotations from the Koran that frequently cited. We currently have a spate of terrorism being carried out or plotted by some people who happen to be Muslim. Condemning the entire religion because of this is madness.

    we also have terrorism being carried out by people in the name of catholicism, and protestantism, even though jesus specifically tells us to love one another ("love thy neighbour as thyself","love your enemies and bless them that curse you")
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    (Original post by piginapoke)
    Well yes, and we don't condemn Christianity now do we?
    :confused: are you agreeing or not? I was only trying to point out that there are other examples of the creed disagreeing with the practice
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    (Original post by riffraff)
    we also have terrorism being carried out by people in the name of catholicism, and protestantism, even though jesus specifically tells us to love one another ("love thy neighbour as thyself","love your enemies and bless them that curse you")
    People calling themselves Christians have always acted directly against the teachings of Jesus. I specifically remember a teaching 'If a man steals your jacket, then give him your coat as well'. Most supposed Christians would condemn the thief to 3 years hard labour. Well, at least the ones who have been in Government over the last few decades anyway.

    Its about time the (Christian) world read what Jesus had to say properly and realise this one simple fact: JESUS WAS A SOCIALIST.
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    There really should be a '********' thread for all the religious debates to go in you know. Every time I come on this site there seems to be another moron trying to preach his own brand of anti-intellectual cowpat. I'm sick of it.
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    (Original post by kingslaw)
    It is unfair to judge any religion by what it says in its religous texts. Just because the Koran, the Bible or whatever has violent passages in them (and how violent the Bible can be!), does not mean that the people who follow that religion are violent, or that the religion itself is violent. Everything must be understood in the context of its time. Nobody, except for fundamentalists, follows the words of any religous texts word for word. The reason? They would only end up contradicting themselves.

    All religion is subjective. It exists in the minds of those who follow it not in the texts that supposedly preach it - therefore it is impossible to label and religion in its entirity as 'violent' or 'peaceful'.
    You err in saying people don't follow it word for word. There's an important difference between the koran and bible. The bible in places is a historical record, or the experiences of men seen through their eyes. Much is inspired, and the message of salvation comes through, but some is just narrative, such as David's psalms of praise. Those are David's words in thanks to God, not God's words. Muslims DO NOT accept this view of the koran, since supposedly in came directly from the mouth of allah via gabriel to the mouth of mohammed. Every word is truth and literal, no other interpretations are possible, and those scholars that suggest they are are lagely rejected by the islamic community. Muslim scholars ARE MOSTLY FUNDAMENTALISTS, and they absolutely believe in it word for word.
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    (Original post by riffraff)
    :confused: are you agreeing or not? I was only trying to point out that there are other examples of the creed disagreeing with the practice
    There are parts of the creed which encourage the practice- beginning with the basis: that god made the universe knowing what he was doing, made people knowing what they will do and is going to roast most of them for ever for what they do.
    Christians only stop torturing and killing people when they are made to do so. It is inherently as cruel as islam, but, fortunately, it is much easier to switch meanings than with islam.
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    (Original post by Intermittent)
    Muslims DO NOT accept this view of the koran, since supposedly in came directly from the mouth of allah via gabriel to the mouth of mohammed. Every word is truth and literal, no other interpretations are possible...
    Are you saying then that muslims that do not follow some of the most violent passages in the Koran word for word are not really muslims???

    I know many muslims who do not follow the Koran word-for-word. Are these people no longer muslims?
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    (Original post by kingslaw)
    Are you saying then that muslims that do not follow some of the most violent passages in the Koran word for word are not really muslims???

    I know many muslims who do not follow the Koran word-for-word. Are these people no longer muslims?

    No, they are not, and this is not what I say, it is what Muslims say. Ask any Mufti or Mullah you like and tell them you are a Muslim but you do not accept to follow Quran word by word, and ask him if he believes you are a Muslim or not.

    If anybody say something else, ask him to go to Mecca and declare it loud infront of pilgrims, if he could save his life then I am wrong.
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    (Original post by shahin10205)
    No, they are not, and this is not what I say, it is what Muslims say. Ask any Mufti or Mullah you like and tell them you are a Muslim but you do not accept to follow Quran word by word, and ask him if he believes you are a Muslim or not.
    If you asked any muslim who doesn't follow the more violent passages of the Koran whether those who do (generally called 'fundamentalists) are true muslims, they would probably say they weren't as they miss (what they believe) to be the main point of Islam.

    Your arguement is severely flawed as you assume that the Mufti or Mullahs are the definite and ultimate personification of Islam - without offering any substance for believing so. The arguement of what a true muslim actually is could go round in circles forever as it is purely subjective - no-one can empirically define a muslim.
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    (Original post by kingslaw)
    If you asked any muslim who doesn't follow the more violent passages of the Koran whether those who do (generally called 'fundamentalists) are true muslims, they would probably say they weren't as they miss (what they believe) to be the main point of Islam.
    Well.as the "main point of islam" is that the koran was given by god to the archangel Gabriel, who recited it to Mohammed, who learned it perfectly, whose followers learned it perfectly and wrote it down unchanged, and every word of the koran is completely true, then people who don't follow the bloodier bits of the koran aren't muslims in the opinion of god, the archangel Gabriel or Mohammed either.
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    I know Muslims can be easy scape goats for perpetrating terror etc. But there is an awful lots of Shia v Sunni battles happening.

    Islam is no worse than Christianity... I just believe religion has a lot to answer for. It has killed millions since time began.
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    (Original post by kingslaw)
    If you asked any muslim who doesn't follow the more violent passages of the Koran whether those who do (generally called 'fundamentalists) are true muslims, they would probably say they weren't as they miss (what they believe) to be the main point of Islam.

    Your arguement is severely flawed as you assume that the Mufti or Mullahs are the definite and ultimate personification of Islam - without offering any substance for believing so. The arguement of what a true muslim actually is could go round in circles forever as it is purely subjective - no-one can empirically define a muslim.

    I do not give a sh* to Mullahs, but let's see if he said you are a kafir by insulting Islam by saying "you could be a Muslim but meanwhile not following book the of God word by word" and it is every Muslim's responsiblity to kill you then you will know who is the ultimate personification of Islam!!!

    BTW did you ask the many Muslims you know who do not believe in Koran to go to out there and say it loud!!! or they prefer to hide behind their computer screens and claim they are Muslims and still hoping to shag the 72 virgins who are waiting for them in paradise?!!
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    (Original post by shahin10205)
    BTW did you ask the many Muslims you know who do not believe in Koran to go to out there and say it loud!!!
    Excuse my memory lapses, but could you possibily remind me whereabouts I said that there are muslims that don't believe in the Koran.

    Its easy to argue against someone else's point if you simply make up what they say. Any idiot can do that, so could you please have the decency of not fabricating things in the future.

    Cheers.
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    (Original post by kingslaw)
    Excuse my memory lapses, but could you possibily remind me whereabouts I said that there are muslims that don't believe in the Koran.

    Its easy to argue against someone else's point if you simply make up what they say. Any idiot can do that, so could you please have the decency of not fabricating things in the future.

    Cheers.
    No problem for the memory problem but it does not seem to me that you are that any idiot who could not look up and you find what they said!!
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    (Original post by shahin10205)
    No problem for the memory problem but it does not seem to me that you are that any idiot who could not look up and you find what they said!!
    OK, and now that you've blatantly avoided my question, you can try actually answering it........
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    (Original post by kingslaw)
    OK, and now that you've blatantly avoided my question, you can try actually answering it........
    By bringing what you said! OK, it seems you could not find it, here it is:

    "Are you saying then that muslims that do not follow some of the most violent passages in the Koran word for word are not really muslims???

    I know many muslims who do not follow the Koran word-for-word. Are these people no longer muslims?"

    Again:

    Those who do not follow Koran word by word do not follow it. Period! Every word is from God. If you are not or have not been a Muslim to understand it, that's not my problem.

    Quran is a book from God and Muslism should follow it word by word. If not, it means you do not accept it is as a holy book which has not been changed for 1400 years and preserved as original. Even in Quran it is mentioned. It is just to say I belive in a true book that is somehow false!

    Ask it from those Muslims friends of yours who do not follow it for Gods sake!!
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    (Original post by piginapoke)
    Religion is a product of man.
    A Christian, or a Muslim, or a Jew etc would argue with the above point.
 
 
 
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