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i am askink everybody in this board to read this specially "adhsur" ..thank you watch

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    one quesion for all of you here
    firstly before i ask .. all of you believe in God and that He is the creator of the whole universe .. right , this is what all people should believe in as i think
    now my question is , why do you all think that the Quran is violent and that we shouldn't believe in it .. Quran is not violent , you can't take a specific text from the Quran alone without knowing anything about it's backgroung and say it's not suitable for human life or it is violent .. God created human beings that's why He knows the best ways to deal with them .. for example , if one invented a machine and this machine broke down , this one will be the best one who can deal with it and fix it .. so , we cannot just ignore what God says in His holy book and put instead of it laws from our mind , it doesn't make a sense
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    (Original post by AmOM3536)
    one quesion for all of you here
    firstly before i ask .. all of you believe in God and that He is the creator of the whole universe .. right , this is what all people should believe in as i think
    now my question is , why do you all think that the Quran is violent and that we shouldn't believe in it .. Quran is not violent , you can't take a specific text from the Quran alone without knowing anything about it's backgroung and say it's not suitable for human life or it is violent .. God created human beings that's why He knows the best ways to deal with them .. for example , if one invented a machine and this machine broke down , this one will be the best one who can deal with it and fix it .. so , we cannot just ignore what God says in His holy book and put instead of it laws from our mind , it doesn't make a sense
    At first prove Quran is from God!!!

    Even $20 bills have a lot of counterfeit detectors inserted in them. What are your proofs that Quran is from God and not from a mouth of a human being?

    Honestly if it was declared from a** of a camel, I would be much more
    convinced it is true!
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    (Original post by piginapoke)
    Well, as religion is a product of man, its man itself who has to answer in my book.
    I believe man is responsible for his terrible actions over the years but religion helps man hide from the reality of what he has done and is doing. As religion fades from society man may not become less violent but atleast one form of self delusion will no longer be possible.

    By ridding the world of superstitions hung over from the primitive world we can finally start on the road towards co-operation and faith in ourselves.
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    (Original post by AmOM3536)
    one quesion for all of you here
    firstly before i ask .. all of you believe in God and that He is the creator of the whole universe .. right , this is what all people should believe in as i think
    Wrong. Why should people believe in as you think? I don't see any reason to think there ios a god or gods. if there is, then division of labour may be as effective in cosmic matters as mundane. Even accepting, purely for the sake of argument, that there is a god or gods, that this god or gods did write the koran, that they didn't make any mistakes in writing it:
    question is , why do you all think that the Quran is violent and that we shouldn't believe in it .. Quran is not violent , you can't take a specific text from the Quran alone without knowing anything about it's backgroung and say it's not suitable for human life or it is violent
    The "background" of specific texts in the koran is ostensibly that it is god's detailed instructions to the human race. If it looks violent and unfair, then, in a book which is supposed to be simple to understand, it is because it is violent and unfair.
    God invented human beings that's why he knows the best ways to deal with them.. for example if someone invented amachineand this machine broke down , this one will be the best one who can deal with it and fix it .. so , we cannot just ignore what God says in His holy book and put instead of it laws from our mind , it doesn't make a sense
    Why then didn't god put the ideas in our own minds in the first place? Save a lot of bother. In fact, if you suppose god is as skilled as all that, why is god such an incompetent workman in the first place?
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    (Original post by Tednol)
    (Original post by Piginapoke)
    Religion is a product of man.
    A Christian, or a Muslim, or a Jew etc would argue with the above point.
    Might depend if they are distinguishing between religion and God
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    So much of Islam, Christianity, any organised religion has a political agenda. Religions are used to control people, and one of the best ways to control the masses is to threaten them. Unfortunately, religions (which would ideally be inherently positive things) are mixed up with the negative violence and condemnation.
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    (Original post by kingslaw)
    All religion is subjective. It exists in the minds of those who follow it not in the texts that supposedly preach it - therefore it is impossible to label and religion in its entirity as 'violent' or 'peaceful'.
    that is exactly the point i made a week ago, and i was denounced by the muslims who post on this board. tell me how many muslims can legitimately justify their religion in British society without referring to the Koran every other sentence. i very rarely contribute to such threads purely because i find religion to be rather empty as it is. arguing points of religious truths is like telling JK Rowling what to put in the next Harry Potter. if you find strength in it, i respect that, but to live your life according to a set of old fairy tales, is a sign of weakness in my book. the hypocrisy, the deferrence, the excuses, the waffle, i couldnt care less anymore. fanaticism of any ideology is dangerous. i am concerned with this current and very real strain of it which threatens the virtue of free thought and self-determination.
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    I do agree that there is a fundamental difference between the bible and the quran. First pillar of Islam is to say "there is no god but Allah and mohammed is his messenger." To say that it then follows that you believe, not interpret the holy instructions delivered from god. I don't really see how you can escape the unfavourable parts of the quran.
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    (Original post by Intermittent)
    You err in saying people don't follow it word for word. There's an important difference between the koran and bible. The bible in places is a historical record, or the experiences of men seen through their eyes. Much is inspired, and the message of salvation comes through, but some is just narrative, such as David's psalms of praise. Those are David's words in thanks to God, not God's words. Muslims DO NOT accept this view of the koran, since supposedly in came directly from the mouth of allah via gabriel to the mouth of mohammed. Every word is truth and literal, no other interpretations are possible, and those scholars that suggest they are are lagely rejected by the islamic community. Muslim scholars ARE MOSTLY FUNDAMENTALISTS, and they absolutely believe in it word for word.
    Sad, but true. This is why most Muslims refuse the concept of Islam "adapting" to modern times: the Quran is literally God's word; it cannot be changed, and there are limits to what you can interpret
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    (Original post by corey)
    I'm sure the Koran says something about striking down non believers, doesn't sound such a peaceful religion to me.
    Strictly this is only done in defense. The real problem is that Islamic law allows for "general consensus" to create any law. This, alongside the clause about people who "make trouble about the land" allows crazy laws to effect anyone within the borders of an Islamic nation.

    As with all religions, it's (relatively) ok until you want to govern from it.
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    I would start contributing to this thread since the threadstarter has (oh so kindly) directed my attention towards it. However, it is such an old thread and it has so many posts that I doubt I want to now! Why do you people bring up old threads from the grave? Make new ones!
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    (Original post by Adhsur)
    Why do you people bring up old threads from the grave? Make new ones!
    Beneficial for the server.
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    Beneficial for the server.
    Pah! What about the benefits for the living breathing thriving growing UKL community?
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    (Original post by Llamas)
    Strictly this is only done in defense. The real problem is that Islamic law allows for "general consensus" to create any law. This, alongside the clause about people who "make trouble about the land" allows crazy laws to effect anyone within the borders of an Islamic nation.

    As with all religions, it's (relatively) ok until you want to govern from it.
    But the Quran enjoins believers to try and export Islam to the whole world; peacefully, if it can be done, if not, Muslims should " Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" (Surah 9.29).

    Muslims always accuse unbelievers of concentrating on some violent verses in the Quran; the problem is, those verses are the justification for the "Islamic" terrorists, and the general tone of the book is not very peaceful
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    (Original post by Adhsur)
    Pah! What about the benefits for the living breathing thriving growing UKL community?
    Didn't know we were a thriving community.
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    (Original post by Adhsur)
    I would start contributing to this thread since the threadstarter has (oh so kindly) directed my attention towards it.
    Perhaps it was revived for your benefit.
    Why do you people bring up old threads from the grave? Make new ones!
    Possibly threads, like wine, benefit from storage.
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    Can any of the Mulims here explain away a quote like this one:

    "The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom...." - Koran 5: 33-34

    I can dig up dozens of more quotes just like this one. Can any Muslims comment on this without dismissing my post with the usual "it's out of context" justification?
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    (Original post by Made in the USA)
    Can any of the Mulims here explain away a quote like this one:

    "The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom...." - Koran 5: 33-34

    I can dig up dozens of more quotes just like this one. Can any Muslims comment on this without dismissing my post with the usual "it's out of context" justification?
    and then when they tell me their religion is drawn from ones own belief not the Koran, explain how you can denounce terrorists (who kill because they have been inspired by Allah), because they are contradicting Islamic principles as exterted in the Koran. Either you follow an interpretation of the Koran, which is essentially pretty horrific reading, or you open Islam up to the influence and guidence your higher power accords each Muslim, and those terrorists that kill in its name.
 
 
 
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