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New And Old Labour?????

hey dudes,

can anyone help me.... i need to know the differences between old and new labour and why the party changed...

Cheers
Liam :smile:

Reply 1

Agent Smith

11

You could read "The Curious Incident of the WMD in Iraq". It's rabidly anti-Blair stuff, but if you can manage to filter out the opinions and just see the facts it might explain the change from Old to New Labour. Obviously there are plenty of better books than that, but I don't know what they are.

Reply 2

dictionaryqueen

4

whistlinduck

hey dudes,

can anyone help me.... i need to know the differences between old and new labour and why the party changed...

Cheers
Liam :smile:

Old labour stood for traditional socialist values, and while this was successful after WW2 with the introdution of the welfare state, it soon fell from favour. Since the 1970's the middle classes began to grow and many poeple no longer saw themselves as working class (not helped by Thatcher and her 'buy your council house' ploy). The Labour party experienced a succession of defeats durning the eighties, primarily because they were considered too left wing and radical. When Tony Blair became leader in the early 90's, one of his first moves was the abandonment of Clause IV - this is the most socialist clause of the labour consitution, which called for complete nationalisation. In doing this Blair sought to shed Labour's deep rooted socialist ideals in favour of a more moderate agenda that would appeal to middle England. He was successful, and a Labour government came to power on a seemingly middle-to-right wing manifesto. New Labour is concerned more with businesses than trade unions, and is slowly becoming more and more like the Tories, with legislation such as the new education bill.

I, by the way, am a believer in Old Labour. We should return to true socialist ideals!!

Reply 3

L i b

19

This is the repealed Clause IV mentioned---

"To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service."

With the loss of this, Labour effectively moved from socialism to being a social democratic capitalist party.

It was replaced by:

"The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party. It believes that by the strength of our common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone, so as to create for each of us the means to realise our true potential and for all of us a community in which power, wealth and opportunity are in the hands of the many, not the few. Where the rights we enjoy reflect the duties we owe. And where we live together, freely, in a spirit of solidarity, tolerance and respect."

Although they mention socialism by name, it's pretty much lip-service.

Reply 4

Agent Smith

11

Thanks for that. I'd always wondered what Clause IV actually said. :biggrin:

Reply 5

FadeToBlackout

15

dictionaryqueen

Old labour stood for traditional socialist values, and while this was successful after WW2 with the introdution of the welfare state, it soon fell from favour. Since the 1970's the middle classes began to grow and many poeple no longer saw themselves as working class (not helped by Thatcher and her 'buy your council house' ploy). The Labour party experienced a succession of defeats durning the eighties, primarily because they were considered too left wing and radical. When Tony Blair became leader in the early 90's, one of his first moves was the abandonment of Clause IV - this is the most socialist clause of the labour consitution, which called for complete nationalisation. In doing this Blair sought to shed Labour's deep rooted socialist ideals in favour of a more moderate agenda that would appeal to middle England. He was successful, and a Labour government came to power on a seemingly middle-to-right wing manifesto. New Labour is concerned more with businesses than trade unions, and is slowly becoming more and more like the Tories, with legislation such as the new education bill.

I, by the way, am a believer in Old Labour. We should return to true socialist ideals!!

Couldn't have said it better myself. :smile:

I would also add that NEw labour is becoming a very Centrist party, and is not as left-wing as it has been in the past. it has been criticised for being merely a facade of spin, with a carefully crafted public image that tells the people what they want to hear and yet fails to properly deliver. I don't believe this to be entirely true; Old Labour had become bogged down in the past, and more extreme members of teh party such as Benn gave it a reputation in teh early 1990s as hard left wing.

New Labour, instead, seems to be committed to some policies which seem Thatcherite, such as market values.

Reply 6

Toscar

11

dictionaryqueen

Old labour stood for traditional socialist values, and while this was successful after WW2 with the introdution of the welfare state, it soon fell from favour. Since the 1970's the middle classes began to grow and many poeple no longer saw themselves as working class (not helped by Thatcher and her 'buy your council house' ploy). The Labour party experienced a succession of defeats durning the eighties, primarily because they were considered too left wing and radical. When Tony Blair became leader in the early 90's, one of his first moves was the abandonment of Clause IV - this is the most socialist clause of the labour consitution, which called for complete nationalisation. In doing this Blair sought to shed Labour's deep rooted socialist ideals in favour of a more moderate agenda that would appeal to middle England. He was successful, and a Labour government came to power on a seemingly middle-to-right wing manifesto. New Labour is concerned more with businesses than trade unions, and is slowly becoming more and more like the Tories, with legislation such as the new education bill.

I, by the way, am a believer in Old Labour. We should return to true socialist ideals!!

of course, what you have to remember is that 'old' labour themselves tried to remove clause IV back in the 50's (hugh gatekill (spl?), and in the 60's Barbara Castles got herself fired when she produced the white paper, in place of strife, suggesting Trade Union reforms.... so Labour as a whole were never fully committed to the wording of the clause.... the actual difference is that of STYLE.

Reply 7

Person

13

'Labour has never been a socialist Party, but it used to have a lot of socialists in it' - Tony Benn

Reply 8

Greyhound02

7

dictionaryqueen

I, by the way, am a believer in Old Labour. We should return to true socialist ideals!!

In that case I assume you prefer Labour being in opposition to government

Reply 9

DemonDemonic

Greyhound02

In that case I assume you prefer Labour being in opposition to government

Policies must help the least well-off, not the rich :confused:

Who said that?

Reply 10

Anthony Arundel

1

dictionaryqueen

New Labour is ... slowly becoming more and more like the Tories

I think you can take the word 'slowly' out of that. Economically, it is pretty much a Thatcherite party. Socially, it is skyrocketing gleefully into the fascisphere.

Reply 11

whistlinduck

OP

2

good work peeps, much appriciated!!!

Reply 12

eddie lodge

communist twit, look at what the socialist policies did to the people of eastern Europe

Reply 13

Saoirse:3

19

Original post by eddie lodge

communist twit, look at what the socialist policies did to the people of eastern Europe

a) He was only asking for help understanding the difference b) This topic is more than a decade old.

Reply 14

popcornjpg

14

edit - didn't realise post was 10 years old ._.

Reply 15

username1799249

19

Original post by dictionaryqueen

Old labour stood for traditional socialist values, and while this was successful after WW2 with the introdution of the welfare state, it soon fell from favour. Since the 1970's the middle classes began to grow and many poeple no longer saw themselves as working class (not helped by Thatcher and her 'buy your council house' ploy). The Labour party experienced a succession of defeats durning the eighties, primarily because they were considered too left wing and radical. When Tony Blair became leader in the early 90's, one of his first moves was the abandonment of Clause IV - this is the most socialist clause of the labour consitution, which called for complete nationalisation. In doing this Blair sought to shed Labour's deep rooted socialist ideals in favour of a more moderate agenda that would appeal to middle England. He was successful, and a Labour government came to power on a seemingly middle-to-right wing manifesto. New Labour is concerned more with businesses than trade unions, and is slowly becoming more and more like the Tories, with legislation such as the new education bill.

I, by the way, am a believer in Old Labour. We should return to true socialist ideals!!

I think that is a shame. I have a lot of time for Tony Blair with the exception of the Iraq War. Yes - he is a capitalist, but he was also a socialist to an extent. I remember at the time the streets were littered with homesless people, the NHS has 18 month waiting lists and education was rubbish. All of that changed under TB. Education saw a massive improvement in investment, waiting lists were eventually reduced to almost nothing and the homeless disappeared. After 8 years of Tory rule if feels like the early 90s again, with the NHS creaking and the homesless back on the streets.

New And Old Labour?????

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