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Fox hunting is barbaric and should be banned. watch

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    (Original post by Dill)
    my cabbage joke? i didn't know i made one! but thanks! that makes me feel all fizzy and bubbly inside! (thats a good thing by the way)
    lol.. fizzy and bubbly ay?
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    oh yes, oh yes, but not in the way that makes you feel as if you want to burp, in the way that you feel you could just float up into the air. i'm not sure that doing that would be a good thing though, as you would either hit your head on the ceiling, or float off into the air and eventually die.
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    (Original post by Dill)
    oh yes, oh yes, but not in the way that makes you feel as if you want to burp, in the way that you feel you could just float up into the air. i'm not sure that doing that would be a good thing though, as you would either hit your head on the ceiling, or float off into the air and eventually die.
    lol, thats sooo.. eck. lol.. are you as high as a kite?
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    nope. but now you mention kites i tried to fly mine the other day, didn't work it's called 'the smallest kite in the world' and it's TIDDLY. i went down to the beach 'coz i thought it would be more windy, but it just flopped to the ground like a dead fish
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    (Original post by Dill)
    nope. but now you mention kites i tried to fly mine the other day, didn't work it's called 'the smallest kite in the world' and it's TIDDLY. i went down to the beach 'coz i thought it would be more windy, but it just flopped to the ground like a dead fish
    Aww... I'm sorry.
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    it broke my heart it did. i threw it into the air, ran along with a smile on my face, listening to the drumming of the sea, looked up in the air, i did not see my kite, i heard a scraping noise behind me, i looked down on the ground, it was just following me, scraping along the ground, all flopped over, you would not believe how distressed i was. poor little guy, he's so small, so fragile, he had done nothing wrong, but the wind did not help him along. oh no it didn't, my running was not fast enough, that makes me feel guilty in a way.
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    (Original post by drago di giada)
    lol.. fizzy and bubbly ay?
    effervescent?
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    (Original post by Dill)
    it broke my heart it did. i threw it into the air, ran along with a smile on my face, listening to the drumming of the sea, looked up in the air, i did not see my kite, i heard a scraping noise behind me, i looked down on the ground, it was just following me, scraping along the ground, all flopped over, you would not believe how distressed i was. poor little guy, he's so small, so fragile, he had done nothing wrong, but the wind did not help him along. oh no it didn't, my running was not fast enough, that makes me feel guilty in a way.
    sorry but those kites are kinda crap- get yourself a decent size one.
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    Kites never work... And if they do, not for long...
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    my sister bought that kite for me, she said the man who sold her it flew it real well. i have no intention of buying myself a proper sized one. i'm broke, and i am not a huge fan of kites.
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    (Original post by Dill)
    my sister bought that kite for me, she said the man who sold her it flew it real well. i have no intention of buying myself a proper sized one. i'm broke, and i am not a huge fan of kites.
    you can get cheap ones for £5
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    lol thanks but i really don't want one! hmm.. i owe my parents errrrr let me think, £1675 for a car...£105 for reading ticket, £650 for car insurance, don't think i can afford £5! :0P
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    (Original post by Fleff)
    I think all the pro-hunters have left as they've realised they lost the debate... Shame.
    actually i asked some while back for you all to propose a better option to hunting, and "no hunting at all" doesnt stand because it is necessary. Im interested to know what the starter of this thread cyst thinks of the debate as he/she seems to have disappeared..
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    (Original post by presebjenada)
    actually i asked some while back for you all to propose a better option to hunting, and "no hunting at all" doesnt stand because it is necessary.
    It's not necessary. It's never been proven to be necessary. It never will.

    I did propose a better alternative, and so did others. The following is some information I've recently found:

    Fox Hunting...
    Myth: Fox hunting is essential to control
    Fact: The fox population is governed naturally, by the fox numbers by the availability of territory and food. Across the rural countryside it is estimated that the fox population is restricted to approximately four adults (three vixens and one dog) per 1000 acres. Cubs are born during Feb, March and April, reared through the summer and driven off by the parents when they reach maturity.

    (1) Studies also show that if left to their own devices only tlle dominant vixen will breed with the others only helping to bring up the litter. Killing foxes does not reduce their numbers but provicles room for itinerant foxes to fill tlle vacuum.

    Myth: The fox is a pest
    Fact: The Ministry of Agriculture does not consider the fox to be a pest (2)

    FOX PREDATION:

    Lambs Up to 17% of all lambs are stillborn or die soon after birth. Many of these fatalities are removed by foxes. The Ministry of Agriculture considers that lamb losses to foxes are insignificant.

    Chickens: 94% of all chickens are kept inside in intensive poultry units. Free range poultry can be securely housed at night and protected during the day by use of electric fencing.

    Fox's Diet
    Small animals such as voles, mice, rabbits, beetles, frogs, worms, birds and carrion. "The staple diet of a fox is not, as so many people apparently imagine, hens and ducks. Indeed it is probably true to say that not 5% all the foxes in Christendom every taste domestic poultry at all" (3)

    1. Research work carried out by Dr. David MacDonald of Oxford University
    2. MAFF Infestation Control Board 5.12.79 BFSS leaflet 1973
    3. BFSS Leaflet

    Myth: Hounds hunt naturally
    Fact: Hounds have to be trained to hunt and those which show no inclination are destroyed.

    Myth: The fox is killed by a bite to the back of the neck by the lead hound.
    Fact: Not so... A BFSS (now Countryside Alliance) film produced to demonstrate that fox hunting is a humane method of control, clearly shows the fox being killed by being bowled over and attacked by hounds biting all parts of its body.

    Cubbing starts early August. New hounds are entered into woods which are known to house neck by the vixen and cubs. The inexperienced hounds learn to kill the foxes which are unable to escape due to the earth being blocked. Those that do attempt to escape are driven back the riders surround the wood.

    The chase can last up to four hours. A fox can outrun the hounds over a short distance. Foxhounds are built for stamina, not speed. Fox earths and badger setts are blocked to prevent the fox from going to ground."It is essential that hounds have their blood up and learn to be savage with their fox". The late Duke of Beaufort - a prominent Master of Foxhounds.

    If a fox does find refuge it will probably be flushed out by terriers or blocked in and "marked to ground'' to be dug out by terrier men after the hunt.

    Myth: Only old or sick foxes are killed
    Fact: Hounds do not differentiate between "old and young" or "sick and healthy" foxes. Once in full "cry", it is impossible to stop hounds. Indeed the killing of cats and other pet animals by hounds which have rioted is well documented.


    There we go then......

    Also, as a wee alternative to hunting:

    All forms of hunting with hounds can be replaced with Draghunting where the animal is substituted by an athletic person.

    There is no violence involved, no damage to property or the horses involved, no trespass or livestock worrying.

    There are already around 31 bloodhound/draghunts in Britain.
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    So what's your arguement now? If you don't mind me asking...
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    (Original post by Fleff)
    I think all the pro-hunters have left as they've realised they lost the debate... Shame.
    Maybe all the pro-hunters went hunting for the weekend. Nobody wins debates like this as there are so many issues to consider. I still don't think hunting should be banned. You haven't convinced me.
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    (Original post by Fleff)
    Fox Hunting...
    The fox population is governed naturally, by the fox numbers by the availability of food.
    There is more food readily available in the guise of chickens/lambs/ducks/rabbits and all of their feed.

    (Original post by Fleff)
    The fox is a pest
    Fact: The Ministry of Agriculture does not consider the fox to be a pest
    Well just because they don't it doesn't mean foxes aren't pests and don't cause havoc.



    (Original post by Fleff)
    Myth: Hounds hunt naturally,


    Myth: The fox is killed by a bite to the back of the neck by the lead hound.


    Myth: Only old or sick foxes are killed
    Of course hounds hunt naturally, they aren't domesticated pets and are purposely allowed to follow their hunting instincts. Hounds hunt in a natural way - as you see on wildlife programmes hunting animals do kill as swiftly as possible, usually with a bite to the neck/throat, and not because they want to cause less suffering to the animal, just because it is the most effective way of killing prey. You're right, the hounds don't know which foxes are the old/ill ones - but the young and healthy ones are obviously going to scarper a lot faster when they realise they may be chased, leaving the older/sicker ones behind.
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    (Original post by Amb1)
    There is more food readily available in the guise of chickens/lambs/ducks/rabbits and all of their feed.
    doesn't mean that all foxes eat chickens, lambs and ducks- in fact, hardly any do. in any case, why are you worried about foxes killing rabbits? rabbits are a far greater pest than foxes.

    Well just because they don't it doesn't mean foxes aren't pests and don't cause havoc.
    in what ways and to whom? I thought your argument earlier was that foxes were pests to farmers- yet there is evidence that they are not. and if they are not pests to farmers, who are they pests to?

    Of course hounds hunt naturally, they aren't domesticated pets
    yes they are

    and are purposely allowed to follow their hunting instincts. Hounds hunt in a natural way - as you see on wildlife programmes hunting animals do kill as swiftly as possible, usually with a bite to the neck/throat, and not because they want to cause less suffering to the animal, just because it is the most effective way of killing prey.
    it is not natural to send a huge pack of hounds cavorting across the countryside in pursuit of one prey, in the wild they wouldn't bother, calorie expenditure is too great for the amount of meat if they catch the fox.

    You're right, the hounds don't know which foxes are the old/ill ones - but the young and healthy ones are obviously going to scarper a lot faster when they realise they may be chased, leaving the older/sicker ones behind.
    once the hounds have picked up the trail of a fox, the speed of the fox doesn't matter. a fox is built for sprinting, not stamina, so whatever the health and age of the fox, it will still be caught.

    in any case, why should you want to improve the fox race by eliminating the oldest and weakest? surely, if they are as much of a pest as you say (and they are not), then you would not want to breed better foxes. your arguments are contradictory.
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    I looked on a website, it was a pro hunting one surprisingly, and one of their arguments for fox hunting was 'only 6% of all foxes are actually killed for the reason of fox hunting', i'm not sure why this is a pro hunting argument, but maybe to suggest that they don't contribute as much as other factors to the death of foxes. hmm... makes me wonder why they bother hunting at all if such a small amount of foxes are killed. seems like quite an ineffective method!
    The only reason that you say foxes cause 'havoc' is because sometimes they kill farmers chickens/other animals. why does the farmer not do anything to protect them, build something around them, make sure the fox can't get in?
    Hounds aren't 'purposely allowed' to follow their natural instincts (hunt), they are encouraged to do so. and if they don't want to hunt then they are often killed. i know this because of a man who lives near me that has jack russels and uses them to hunt, and one of the dogs was not interested in hunting, and he was going to have it killed until my sister's boyfriend's parents said they didn't want it to be killed and they would look after it. therefore they are not just 'allowed' to follow their natural instincts, they are more like made to, and if they don't, then they are often destroyed.
    What i want to know is why they choose foxhounds and other dogs like that, that are build for stamina, and not speed. surely choosing a dog like a greyhound, a lurcher or a whippet to hunt would make the chase last a smaller amount of time, so the fox would not be chased to exhaustion. why choose a dog that will take a long time to actually catch it's prey? so the spectators have more entertainment, or what?
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    (Original post by Amb1)
    Of course hounds hunt naturally, they aren't domesticated pets and are purposely allowed to follow their hunting instincts. Hounds hunt in a natural way - as you see on wildlife programmes hunting animals do kill as swiftly as possible, usually with a bite to the neck/throat, and not because they want to cause less suffering to the animal, just because it is the most effective way of killing prey. You're right, the hounds don't know which foxes are the old/ill ones - but the young and healthy ones are obviously going to scarper a lot faster when they realise they may be chased, leaving the older/sicker ones behind.
    When on wildlife programs do we see a group of hounds hunting? erm... NEVER!

    If a fox isn't caught, it is often because it has managed to get underground (considering that a lot of the entrances to any underground tunnels have been blocked beforehand) it is flushed out afterwards and then killed. So no fox ever escapes...

    The hounds would normally stay on the scent of one fox, not swapping to whichever fox seems closer, so the "young and healthy ones" would still get hunted even if they did scarper...
 
 
 
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