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    (Original post by riffraff)
    sieg heil!
    :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
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    what does sieg heil mean??
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    (Original post by Amb1)
    :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
    hehehe roflmao

    sorry.
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    (Original post by Dill)
    what does sieg heil mean??
    it's what they used to say to hitler
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    (Original post by riffraff)
    hehehe roflmao

    sorry.
    I'm really up for opening a bit can of whoop ass on you right here but I have to go.:mad: :rolleyes: D'oh! Catch up soon........
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    (Original post by Amb1)
    I'm really up for opening a bit can of whoop ass on you right here but I have to go.:mad: :rolleyes: D'oh! Catch up soon........
    auf wiedersehen!
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    (Original post by riffraff)
    6% is not effective and does not justify damaging countryside all for the pleasure of a couple of people and their hangers on.
    we want to control the fox numbers, not exterminate them all. and in what way is hunting damaging to the countryside?

    Study by the University of Kent (29 May 03).

    "We found that landowners participating in field sports [hunting and shooting] maintained the most established woodland and planted more new woodland and hedgerows than those who did not, despite the equal availability of subsidies. Therefore, voluntary habitat management appears to be important for biodiversity conservation in Britain."
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    Okay...so maybe landowners who shoot&hunt plant more new woodland but there are some negative aspects of hunting, illustrated in these pieces of info. here.


    FEB 2002 South Cornwall FH - Several hounds killed on railway line

    FEB 2002 Bicester FH - Hound killed on railway line

    JAN 1999 Hounds killed by passenger train when pack strayed onto line

    NOV 1999 New Forest FH - Six hounds killed when they strayed onto a railway line.

    JAN 1998 West Kent FH - 11 hounds killed on the tracks

    OCT 1998 South Pembrokeshire FH - 10 hounds killed by train



    JAN 2003 Motorist driving along main road from Chard to Taunton collided with a hound. The hound limped off before the driver could check its injuries; the car was extensively damaged & the police informed. (Taunton Vale Foxhounds)

    JAN 2003 Hunt almost caused an accident on the A14 after invading private land. (Croome & W Warwickshire Hunt)

    JAN 2003 Hounds seen on the A350 - a major lorry route (Portman Hunt)

    NOV 2002 3 horsemen & a dog galloping down the centre of the A30 - incident reported to police (Portman Hunt again)

    OCT 2002 Bicester Hunt lost control of hounds whilst cubhunting - invaded 2 nature reserves & ran riot on a busy road.

    AUG 2002 2 hounds killed when hunt strayed onto the A74 at Lockerbie.

    FEB 2002 Heythrop FH
    Hound hit by a car when crossing busy road


    There have been incidents of hounds invading private homes, diving through open windows and doors and scattering throughout the house. Many such incidents are never recorded in the media because hunt officials, eager to avoid bad public relations, are quickly on the scene to apologise and offer compensation. This is often accepted because this kind of trespass is still a civil offence and the average farmer or rural resident is not in a financial position to take such a case to court.
    However, over the last few years, the League Against Cruel Sports has offered advice to farmers and landowners who have persistently suffered unwelcome invasions or damage by hunts. The League has assisted in more than 500 legal cases, usually winning compensation for the victim and on occasions securing court undertakings or injunctions against hunts. In 1985 the League Against Cruel Sports took court action for trespass against the Devon and Somerset Staghounds following several invasions of the League's wildlife sanctuaries. The court awarded damages and costs to the League of £85,000 and imposed an injunction on the Hunt Masters.
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    i dont doubt that there is the occasional and very unfortunate accident
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    (Original post by Dill)
    Okay...so maybe landowners who shoot&hunt plant more new woodland but there are some negative aspects of hunting, illustrated in these pieces of info. here.


    FEB 2002 South Cornwall FH - Several hounds killed on railway line

    FEB 2002 Bicester FH - Hound killed on railway line

    JAN 1999 Hounds killed by passenger train when pack strayed onto line

    NOV 1999 New Forest FH - Six hounds killed when they strayed onto a railway line.

    JAN 1998 West Kent FH - 11 hounds killed on the tracks

    OCT 1998 South Pembrokeshire FH - 10 hounds killed by train

    JAN 2003 Motorist driving along main road from Chard to Taunton collided with a hound. The hound limped off before the driver could check its injuries; the car was extensively damaged & the police informed. (Taunton Vale Foxhounds)

    JAN 2003 Hunt almost caused an accident on the A14 after invading private land. (Croome & W Warwickshire Hunt)

    JAN 2003 Hounds seen on the A350 - a major lorry route (Portman Hunt)

    NOV 2002 3 horsemen & a dog galloping down the centre of the A30 - incident reported to police (Portman Hunt again)

    OCT 2002 Bicester Hunt lost control of hounds whilst cubhunting - invaded 2 nature reserves & ran riot on a busy road.

    AUG 2002 2 hounds killed when hunt strayed onto the A74 at Lockerbie.

    FEB 2002 Heythrop FH
    Hound hit by a car when crossing busy road
    This has nothing to do with fox hunting. As I said earlier if you're going to argue this point you should be campaigning to get rid of roads and railways that are tearing through the coutryside, not hunting.
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    (Original post by Amb1)
    This has nothing to do with fox hunting. As I said earlier if you're going to argue this point you should be campaigning to get rid of roads and railways that are tearing through the coutryside, not hunting.
    These incidents occurred because fox hunting is still allowed.

    Yes, I would like to get rid of the railways and roads that are tearing through the countryside- but that might make it a bit difficult for food to be transported from farms to shops, for commuters to get to work etc. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by riffraff)
    These incidents occurred because fox hunting is still allowed.

    Yes, I would like to get rid of the railways and roads that are tearing through the countryside- but that might make it a bit difficult for food to be transported from farms to shops, for commuters to get to work etc. :rolleyes:
    Hunting was around way before the roads + railways!
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    (Original post by Amb1)
    Hunting was around way before the roads + railways!
    horse and cart were around way before the bicycle. flint tools were around way before metal work. porridge was around way before rice pudding. so what?
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    (Original post by riffraff)
    horse and cart were around way before the bicycle. flint tools were around way before metal work. porridge was around way before rice pudding. so what?
    So why does hunting have to be got rid of and not the roads + railways? I can't be bothered arguing about this anyway - it's a seperate issue to banning hunting for the welfare of foxes, which is what this debate is about.
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    (Original post by riffraff)
    so what?
    accidents happen when an age-old pastime mixes with the advances of technology. its hardly a reason to get rid of the former.
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    (Original post by riffraff)
    found something here: http://www.foxes.org/urbanfox/part2.html

    it says that the numbers of foxes are not affected by the level of fox control
    level of control..not control. hardly a deeply reliable article but since you cite it....

    "In areas where foxes were controlled, that control was the most common cause of death. In areas where they were not, specimens recovered for research had most often been killed on the nearby roads. Similar mortality rates are seen in rural populations from human action, most commonly trapping or hunting."

    control has effect on population numbers but succeeds in reducing the number of foxes existing into old age.

    "This juvenile mortality is higher still in areas where foxes are controlled, resulting in a population weighted heavily in favor of younger foxes (because fewer survive to be old, the surviving foxes breed at an earlier age than they might in a more stable population)."
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    accidents happen when an age-old pastime mixes with the advances of technology. its hardly a reason to get rid of the former.
    it is hardly a reason to get rid of the latter- advances in technology have helped us to save millions of lives and improve the quality of life for billions more. besides- if controlling the fox population is such an issue- then we should keep the roads as they kill far more foxes a year than fox hunting. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    level of control..not control. hardly a deeply reliable article but since you cite it....

    "In areas where foxes were controlled, that control was the most common cause of death. In areas where they were not, specimens recovered for research had most often been killed on the nearby roads. Similar mortality rates are seen in rural populations from human action, most commonly trapping or hunting."

    control effects population numbers but succeeds in reducing the number of foxes existing into old age.

    "This juvenile mortality is higher still in areas where foxes are controlled, resulting in a population weighted heavily in favor of younger foxes (because fewer survive to be old, the surviving foxes breed at an earlier age than they might in a more stable population)."
    what is your point?
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    (Original post by Amb1)
    So why does hunting have to be got rid of and not the roads + railways? I can't be bothered arguing about this anyway - it's a seperate issue to banning hunting for the welfare of foxes, which is what this debate is about.
    there are the pro-fox hunting debaters and the we-hate-anything-that-causes-death-or-harm-to-an-animal debaters. while this argument falls under their argument, it is of no interest to us.
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    (Original post by riffraff)
    what is your point?
    erm, read the post?
 
 
 

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