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Fox hunting is barbaric and should be banned. watch

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    Theres a simple fact with hunting, ITS NOT HUNTING! Its hardly a hunt when its 100 dogs, 50 people (some on horses) vs 1 sodding fox. Hunting, if at all to be called acceptable in non hunter-gatherer society, should involve 1 on 1 man spear vs fox..now that actually would take skill! The fact is its animal cruelty and is absolutley pointless! Ban it. Also the pest control arguement doesnt hold up, people dont ban mouse traps because nobody organises mass "trappings" etc. Finally the reason fox hunting hsn't been banned is that it is a toff or wannabe toff sport (not exclusivley). Its funny how the poor man's animal sports were banned (eg **** fighting) as long as we didnt take ol Ruperts Hunt away...THATS different!...

    Hunts = Sick Sad Sods.
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    (Original post by thor)
    Theres a simple fact with hunting, ITS NOT HUNTING! Its hardly a hunt when its 100 dogs, 50 people (some on horses) vs 1 sodding fox. Hunting, if at all to be called acceptable in non hunter-gatherer society, should involve 1 on 1 man spear vs fox..now that actually would take skill! The fact is its animal cruelty and is absolutley pointless! Ban it. Also the pest control arguement doesnt hold up, people dont ban mouse traps because nobody organises mass "trappings" etc. Finally the reason fox hunting hsn't been banned is that it is a toff or wannabe toff sport (not exclusivley). Its funny how the poor man's animal sports were banned (eg **** fighting) as long as we didnt take ol Ruperts Hunt away...THATS different!...

    Hunts = Sick Sad Sods.
    Who says hunting needs to require skill to be classed as hunting? Never heard that argument before.

    I get the feeling you don't know much about how fox hunting works in practise. One hunt does not go and massacre dozens of foxes a time. Quite the opposite.

    Why, can I ask, did you make your (incorrect) point about fox hunting being a toff sport, and then instantly back-track?

    And the **** fighting comparison is flawed. **** fighting served no useful purpose and like it or loathe it, fox hunting does.
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    1. Hunting : "the work of finding and killing or capturing animals for
    food or pelts
    " Webster's. Hunting as you percieve is'nt what hunting was orginally, its just useless animal cruelty in non hunter-gatherer societies.

    2. I know how fox hunting works, my friend (farmers son) likes hunting and ive watched one with him...I was not best pleased! Very pompous and very sadistic. He is stil my m8 but does not mean we don't disagree.

    3. I did not back track, Fox hunting is a toff sport yet ALSO includes people who aspire to be toffs (aka wannabes usually from Middle England) yet are clearly not actualy toffs. It takes all sorts to be barbarians.

    4. Your retort is flawed, fox hunting serves no social or economical benefit for Britain. And if you think its economical to keep uk farming going then your sorely mistaken. Far better the CAP be scrapped, hunting be banned and the uk subsidy drain that is farming can go the same way as mining! We have more important things, like education and healthcare to spend money on. In fact the only purpose fox-hunting actually serves is toff entertainment. This is no different a purpose to **** fighting or bull fighting etc. THus foxhunting is on par with these barbarian "sports".


    Lets see you chased by gimps on horses and see how much you'd like it
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    (Original post by thor)
    Far better the uk subsidy drain that is farming can go the same way as mining! We have more important things, like education and healthcare to spend money on.
    :rolleyes: What's your problem with farming?! I don't think you'd have the same opinion if your dad was a farmer. You seem to be quite narrow-minded.
    (Original post by thor)
    Lets see you chased by gimps on horses and see how much you'd like it
    I bet you'd love it.
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    yes it should be banned
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    My dear Amb1, of course you could suggest id have a different view on farming if i were a farmers son, then i may have different view if my dad were a dealer, or if my dad worked for Brit. AMer. Tobacco. All subjective.

    My beef with farming is its massive state subsidy (one of THE largest outside Defence health and education), to support an unproductive loss making industry in long term decline is not what public money should be spent on. Far better farming were full private and then we'd see if UK farming is actually any good. Also such subsidy harms our poorer people throughout the world who cannot compete, just visit Oxfam for more info.
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    Ifthe gimps wer female i wouldnt mind being chased
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    (Original post by thor)
    My dear Amb1...
    Patronising people won't get you very far and diminishes your argument.

    (Original post by thor)
    My beef with farming is...
    You wouldn't have any beef if it wasn't for farming. Plus, this thread is about fox hunting not farming.
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    I did not intend to be patronizing, you can read what you will into what you want.

    And your wrong on both accounts. Fox hunting is directly linked to farming and its economy, just ask pro hunt groups And I do still have a beef with animal cruelty on such a sadistic scale as fox hunting, so its not just all about farming :P Ever heard of Gandhi? A nation can be judged by how it treats its animals. Says alot about us if we spend our time enjoying tearing them to pieces.
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    (Original post by thor)
    I did not intend to be patronizing, you can read what you will into what you want.

    And your wrong on both accounts. Fox hunting is directly linked to farming and its economy, just ask pro hunt groups And I do still have a beef with animal cruelty on such a sadistic scale as fox hunting, so its not just all about farming :P Ever heard of Gandhi? A nation can be judged by how it treats its animals. Says alot about us if we spend our time enjoying tearing them to pieces.
    Yes. And a nation can also be judged by how it treats it's people. Is Ghandi's India your role model? I'm sure India is very kind to cows. It's a shame they don't extend the same compassion to the millions of untouchables.
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    (Original post by thor)
    I did not intend to be patronizing, you can read what you will into what you want.
    Calling someone 'My dear' when you don't even know them is patronising.

    (Original post by thor)
    And I do still have a beef
    :rolleyes: You clearly didn't get the pun.
    (Original post by thor)
    ...with animal cruelty on such a sadistic scale as fox hunting, so its not just all about farming :P Ever heard of Gandhi?
    slightly patronising again there.
    (Original post by thor)
    A nation can be judged by how it treats its animals. Says alot about us if we spend our time enjoying tearing them to pieces.
    I'm sure the rest of the world's main concern with this country is far more political and important than a few foxes being killed.
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    Noooo...fraid gandhi's India is not my role model lol Some people just have good ideas that worth putting into practice, I would rather live in a society that treated its people well and its animals without sadistic brutality...its not much to ask is it? :P

    "I certainly hope not. I don't really want my tax dollars spent in Africa."

    Its amazing how nice you are Howard, luckily not everyone is so selfish and uncaring as you.
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    subsitute the word "foxes" for "jews" and amb you'd make a great SS soldier 60 years ago.
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    (Original post by thor)

    Its amazing how nice you are Howard, luckily not everyone is so selfish and uncaring as you.
    Neither. Gave up a decent job and a year of my life to work as a volunteer in the third world. Did you?

    I just happen to understand that merely showering Africa with cash is not going to achieve a damn thing.
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    (Original post by thor)
    subsitute the word "foxes" for "jews" and amb you'd make a great SS soldier 60 years ago.
    Hmm. Peoples lives hold greater value than foxes lives imho. Are you one of those people who would save their dog from drowning before you'd save a stranger?
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    (Original post by thor)
    1. Hunting : "the work of finding and killing or capturing animals for
    food or pelts
    " Webster's. Hunting as you percieve is'nt what hunting was orginally, its just useless animal cruelty in non hunter-gatherer societies.

    2. I know how fox hunting works, my friend (farmers son) likes hunting and ive watched one with him...I was not best pleased! Very pompous and very sadistic. He is stil my m8 but does not mean we don't disagree.

    3. I did not back track, Fox hunting is a toff sport yet ALSO includes people who aspire to be toffs (aka wannabes usually from Middle England) yet are clearly not actualy toffs. It takes all sorts to be barbarians.

    4. Your retort is flawed, fox hunting serves no social or economical benefit for Britain. And if you think its economical to keep uk farming going then your sorely mistaken. Far better the CAP be scrapped, hunting be banned and the uk subsidy drain that is farming can go the same way as mining! We have more important things, like education and healthcare to spend money on. In fact the only purpose fox-hunting actually serves is toff entertainment. This is no different a purpose to **** fighting or bull fighting etc. THus foxhunting is on par with these barbarian "sports".


    Lets see you chased by gimps on horses and see how much you'd like it
    Lets not get pedantic by examining the definition of words. Because I'll simply draw your attention to the definition in the The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. It states, amongst its definitions for hunting, as:

    1. To pursue (game) for food or sport.
    2. To make use of (hounds, for example) in pursuing game.

    So having shown you a different defintion... I'd like to ask what your point is about what is and what isn't hunting?

    If you know how hunting works, why did you wrong say it was "pointless" that "100 dogs, 50 people" go on hunts? Because if you knew how hunting works, you'd know that it doesn't matter how many people you send out a hunt will not kill many foxes.

    The "toffs" who you talk about are the professional middle class. I know people who hunt and toffs are the last word that can be used to describe them. It makes me laugh when people call people toffs because they hunt. Toff is a word born out of naivety.

    Don't accuse my "retort" of being flawed. Fox hunting provide social benefit, quite how you can thing otherwise is quite beyond me. The fact some saddlers, and kennel workers are kept in jobs by fox hunting don't provide social benefit? If these people lost their jobs, and needed to claim benefits, then economics they wouldn't be doing any favours either.

    Fox hunting does serve a purpose... meaning it exists in stark contrast to **** fighting. Fox hunting controls fox numbers, provides joy to many professional people, and keeps numerous people employed.
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    No i havent volunteered in third world as yet it would be worthwhile in doing and im glad you did it. However i believe that spending donations in the right areas is part of the way forward. Eg. On womens education in Africa and not on propping up bad governments. I do want my tax spent on Africa, in the righ way it is benefical. Throwing it in aid just won't do it.

    And no i wouldnt save a dog before a drowing stranger, id save the stranger then the dog in that order. We built welfare states and thats saved alot of people from deprivation and poverty, now we can also ban fox hunting and save some animals to
    And id agree people's lives are worth more than animals, still doesnt mean i do not care about what happens to the animals.
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    Ok 3 on 1 is getting hard to reply to so quickly!

    1.You believe that economic argument about keeping kennel and saddle people employed don't you? Very luddite to me. You might as still have cotton mills in Norwich or the whole of the mining industry to keep going. These things come and go, people are adaptable and are able to find other areas of employment or we would never progress. What happens to the bullfighters, the bull handlers etc when there market goes i could here you whine in Spain...lol its social luddism

    2.Toff, townie they are derogatory words and i use them, its not naivety its dislike.
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    Another example, of your argument would be made against the abolition of slavery White Slave owner: "if you ban slavery what will i do? I will become poor, my farmworkers will be laid off, entire ships and men will lose money and i wont be able to support them. Slavery is the backbone of our economy and we will fail without it"

    Tough! We banned slavery, we will ban fox hunting.
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    (Original post by thor)
    No i havent volunteered in third world as yet it would be worthwhile in doing and im glad you did it.
    Actually, I'm thoroughly ashamed of my involvement. Typical middle class guy that went to Guatemala as much to feel good about himself (and believe it or not that's why most people do voluntary work) and achieved nothing concrete.

    I worked in a home for street kids/drug rehabilitation center in Xela trying to ween 10 year olds off glue and prevent them from prostituting themselves.

    We succeeded with a few. Or at least we thought we did.

    When I returned to Guatemala a year later I found that most of those kids were back on the streets. So stoned they didn't even recognize me.

    I gave hope and by leaving, those hopes were dashed. It would have been better had I done nothing.

    I hate myself for trying to understand third world street children. I'm still very cut up about it 8 years later.

    I would always tell any wannabe NGO worker that if you aren't prepared to finish the job (and that might mean spending years over there) then do yourself and others a favor and don't go. Don't think you are going to parachute into the third world and turn your good intentions into anything really productive unless you are prepared to devote a sizeable chunck of your life to the cause.

    The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
 
 
 
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