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    (Original post by Elmer Fud)
    Farming is a dying industry in Britain. Our countryside is becoming a theme park for the Urban majority. Is that how you want to see the British countryside.
    Some countries don't have a countryside in the way that we do.
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    (Original post by presebjenada)
    however, the countryside, by which i mean the land and wildlife within the land, requires constant and careful management to maintain a functioning ecosystem.
    We like to play mother nature and God. My my...
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    Animals in the wild hunt together as a bonding ritual. Animals in the wild fight an kill things that are unwanted on their territory. Why is there such a presumption that humans are so superior?
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    (Original post by Amb1)
    Why is there such a presumption that humans are so superior?
    How do you mean?
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    (Original post by Amb1)
    Animals in the wild hunt together as a bonding ritual. Animals in the wild fight an kill things that are unwanted on their territory. Why is there such a presumption that humans are so superior?
    You see this is one of the arguments that seems to be used so much. When people want us to be better than animals like in the case of animal testing then we are and that is the justification for it that Humans are more intelligent than animals and therefor it is ok for us to treat them however we want using our advanced machinery ect. But then the same people will use the argument that humans are just like animals to justify eating meat and now fox hunting. You can't have it both ways we are either no better than animals and therefore have no right to treat them as badly as we do or we are superior and should have more of a conscience. There are many ways that humans can bond without going off and killing foxes. The type of hunting isn't even the same as it is with animals.
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    I don't think we're that intelligent as scientists make out we are. There was a time when we thought the world was flat
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    (Original post by randdom)
    You see this is one of the arguments that seems to be used so much. When people want us to be better than animals like in the case of animal testing then we are and that is the justification for it that Humans are more intelligent than animals and therefor it is ok for us to treat them however we want using our advanced machinery ect. But then the same people will use the argument that humans are just like animals to justify eating meat and now fox hunting.
    Could it not be both? We are animals. We still have instincts. When it comes to the crunch we fight to the death / we hunt other animals for food and kill other animals to protect ourselves. We also use our advanced intelligence to our benefit in other ways. Many studies that have been carried out on animals have contributed greatly to our understanding of our own species. Just because it's done in a lab and not in the wild, it doesn't mean it's not a natural evolutionary progression, ensuring the survival of the human species.

    You can't have it both ways
    yes you can.
    [QUOTE]we are either no better than animals or we are superior [QUOTE] We can be superior but still display the same attributes.
    There are many ways that humans can bond without going off and killing foxes. The type of hunting isn't even the same as it is with animals.
    Humans do bond in many other ways. That doesn't mean that bonding through huntnig isn't valid. Why isn't it the same? It's grouping togehter to get rid of an unwanted being in our environment.
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    (Original post by Amb1)
    Humans do bond in many other ways. That doesn't mean that bonding through huntnig isn't valid. Why isn't it the same? It's grouping togehter to get rid of an unwanted being in our environment.
    Human are more intelligent as you said earlier. Surely this should mean that we shouldn't have to resort to blood sports which are inhumane to bond. When people hunt they use machines (guns) and other animals (hounds) they don't just go out to hunt together for food which is the bonding part in the animal kingdom they hunt together and bond due to a mutual need for food. Humans do not hunt for the sames reasons or in the same way as animals.
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    (Original post by randdom)
    Human are more intelligent as you said earlier. Surely this should mean that we shouldn't have to resort to blood sports which are inhumane to bond. When people hunt they use machines (guns) and other animals (hounds) they don't just go out to hunt together for food which is the bonding part in the animal kingdom they hunt together and bond due to a mutual need for food. Humans do not hunt for the sames reasons or in the same way as animals.
    I think humans hunt more as a form of pest control.
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    (Original post by roxy potter)
    I think humans hunt more as a form of pest control.
    I am aware of that I was just responding to a point made by someone. In reguards to the pest control they wouldn't be a pest if the farmers did more to protect their animals. There are other ways of reducing the fox population if it would even expand without fox hunting (which I doubt) but I have put my arguments about this forward on this thread already.
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    (Original post by Amb1)
    Humans do bond in many other ways. That doesn't mean that bonding through huntnig isn't valid. Why isn't it the same? It's grouping togehter to get rid of an unwanted being in our environment.
    "Figures published by the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food in their booklet 'Lamb Survival' show that 95% of lamb deaths are due to abortions/stillbirths, exposure/starvation, infectious diseases and congenital defects. The remaining 5% include misadventure as well as predation (appendix I, fig 12).

    The fox is clearly not a significant pest but the common sense recommendation from the MAFF is that all lamb losses can be reduced by improving husbandry techniques to ensure that the ewes are in good condition thereby reducing the number of weak lambs who are most at risk."

    http://www.huntinginquiry.gov.uk/evidence/csgah.htm

    the fox is clearly not a significant pest. If hunters want to bond- they can do so on a drag hunt.
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    My my, I'm surprised this thread's still going! I remember my first post on UKL, it was here, arguing for the rights of foxes *nostalgic moment*

    I still think it should be banned, but it's too late for me to try to argue against fox hunting at the moment. I'll be back in the morning though!
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    (Original post by riffraff)
    "Figures published by the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food in their booklet 'Lamb Survival' show that 95% of lamb deaths are due to abortions/stillbirths, exposure/starvation, infectious diseases and congenital defects. The remaining 5% include misadventure as well as predation (appendix I, fig 12).

    The fox is clearly not a significant pest but the common sense recommendation from the MAFF is that all lamb losses can be reduced by improving husbandry techniques to ensure that the ewes are in good condition thereby reducing the number of weak lambs who are most at risk."

    http://www.huntinginquiry.gov.uk/evidence/csgah.htm

    the fox is clearly not a significant pest. If hunters want to bond- they can do so on a drag hunt.
    really? i didn't even know that lambs came into the equation.
    did you ever see the remains of a chicken after a fox has been at it?
    do you even know how drag hunts are run?
    but just for the record my local hunt is a drag hunt.
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    (Original post by Fleff)
    My my, I'm surprised this thread's still going!
    I'm not
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    Animals have killed animals from the dawn of time.
    Why on earth do we need to change that? It's worked so far for millions of years so why do animal rights campaigners feel they have the intellect to form a reason for changing all that?
    Animal rights campaigners are usually the ones with little to not intellect who oppose the flow of science in our quest for knowledge.
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    (Original post by roxy potter)
    really? i didn't even know that lambs came into the equation.
    it was an example

    did you ever see the remains of a chicken after a fox has been at it?
    yes- and I still don't think it is any justification for fox hunting

    do you even know how drag hunts are run?
    but just for the record my local hunt is a drag hunt.
    as far as I am aware, a drag hunt is when a sack of a smelly substance is dragged along the ground to set a trail for the hounds to follow. I apologise if this is not the case.
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    (Original post by Gaz031)
    Animals have killed animals from the dawn of time.
    Why on earth do we need to change that? It's worked so far for millions of years so why do animal rights campaigners feel they have the intellect to form a reason for changing all that?
    Animal rights campaigners are usually the ones with little to not intellect who oppose the flow of science in our quest for knowledge.
    Most animal rights campaigners wether it be against battery farming on testing on animals do so because they want to see a more ethical treatment of animals in all scenarios including the culling of foxes.
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    (Original post by Gaz031)
    Animals have killed animals from the dawn of time.
    Why on earth do we need to change that? It's worked so far for millions of years so why do animal rights campaigners feel they have the intellect to form a reason for changing all that?
    Animal rights campaigners are usually the ones with little to not intellect who oppose the flow of science in our quest for knowledge.
    animals kill animals out of need- not for pleasure.

    Also, by your argument, we should not hunt foxes to prevent them from killing livestock, as "animals have killed animals from the dawn of time"

    the intellect of animal rights campaigners is not relevant to the topic of this debate
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    (Original post by randdom)
    Most animal rights campaigners wether it be against battery farming on testing on animals do so because they want to see a more ethical treatment of animals in all scenarios including the culling of foxes.
    But why should we have to treat animals perfectly? Types of sharks won't think twice about eating you, lions and tigers will kill a grown man. In history, animals have also killed men. The mutual relationship has worked in the past and it will continue to work in the future.
    Animal rights campaigners are often idiotic romantacists who find that campaigning for animal welfare gives them a purpose in life and allows them to go home feeling good about themselves at the end of the day. In my opinion they should get a fulfilling worthwhile lifestyle that helps others members of our species. There's enough humans in pain and suffering. I think we would do better to remember that and focus on assisting them, rather than animals who do not have the intelligence of most members of our species.
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    (Original post by riffraff)
    animals kill animals out of need- not for pleasure.

    Also, by your argument, we should not hunt foxes to prevent them from killing livestock, as "animals have killed animals from the dawn of time"
    Animals kill other animals for many many reasons. If animals didn't enjoy killing they wouldn't kill. When an animal kills another it usually doesn't lick it completely clean. Most animals can live off vegetation alone. Yet they still eat meat - for pleasure.
    We should hunt foxes if it pleases us. We should do whatever means necessary to further the society of mankind.
 
 
 
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