GOGSoc Episode VI: The GoG, the Bad and the Ugly

Reply 580

13

To be fair, yes, the makeup of my coursemates will naturally affect that. Mrs Lyceum thinks its also because I'm too hard on/expect to much of my coursemates academically. This is unfair, I do not expect too much, I just get (rationally) annoyed that you get privileged little ****s who have had all these opportunities thrown at them, often from 11+ and then think its funny/acceptable to pursue a post-graduate degree in the Classics without Greek, for example. Its not acceptable, its lazy and it reflects badly both on said person and the rest of us studying at x department.

I've also said, it is apparently racist, but we need to seriously re-examine how we rate Classicists coming here from French and German and Scandinavian unis. Yes, people mock the nationalism in places like Greece and even, at times, Italy, but whatever their theoretical and contextual issues I've never met a Greek or an Italian Classicist who didn't know two languages well. The discipline would be much, much, much, better if UK unis like Oxford and Cambridge where more happy to co-opt these Mediterranean students. Obviously this is about Classics. And wow, that turned out to be massive.

Aeschylus you're right, it is a problem with funding. The mad thing is you can literally see how some disciplines in some universities are ****ing up their patrimony by bad decisions too, so its not all at the feet of the government/university/wider society.

Reply 581

Craghyrax

17

Original post

by Bluth.

I have to admit, my 'safe' decision to stick with my undergrad uni was influenced by the fact that I won't have to form a support network/social life from scratch. Although I realise it is not going to be the same at all- most people I know have left by now.

I think it makes a lot of sense to do your Masters either at your undergrad institution, or the institution you plan to do your PhD at. 9 or 10 months isn't really enough time to settle in and feel at home anywhere. Everyone's different, of course, but that was a factor in me staying at Cam for my MPhil, certainly!
But a PhD offers enough time to set up new roots and gather momentum with relationships.

Reply 582

llacerta

19

Craghyrax

x

I can see why such a stereotype might get irritating, and I understand that activities and societies and so on are a good way of forming friendships- it's something I've really enjoyed even as an undergraduate- but from my experiences it seems that very few postgraduates do get involved with clubs and societies and so on. It might be a time constraint thing, in which case making friends where you live, in halls or in a house, would be the easiest route, but as others have said, postgraduate halls tend to be quiet. I also fear whether I'd be as welcome as a postgraduate to clubs and societies (but my preconceptions might be more to do with my undergraduate uni lacking an integrative postgraduate culture). Plus even as a third year, although I have friends who are freshers and who are lovely, I definitely relate better to those who are also in third year. I can imagine that as a postgraduate it might be more difficult to relate to undergraduates and it would be nice to have fellow postgraduate friends who you can share the ups and downs of postgraduate life with.

Anyway, to be fair it seems like my viewpoint is quite skewed by my experiences at my current university where there is very much an undergraduate/postgraduate divide, and I agree with what you're saying- that if someone feels a bit lonely as a postgraduate, there are certainly opportunities to get out there and meet people.

QHF

x

Yeah, I see how it's sort of similar to someone in a normal job having to structure their social life. Probably good practice for the future to be fair, haha. It's good that you've had positive experiences of being part of a society as well- that gives me hope!

Reply 583

Bluth.

16

Original post

by Craghyrax

I think it makes a lot of sense to do your Masters either at your undergrad institution, or the institution you plan to do your PhD at. 9 or 10 months isn't really enough time to settle in and feel at home anywhere. Everyone's different, of course, but that was a factor in me staying at Cam for my MPhil, certainly!
But a PhD offers enough time to set up new roots and gather momentum with relationships.

I'm going straight to PhD, but sticking with my department is offering me a surprising amount of 'new' opportunities. It is rapidly changing but in exactly the right direction for me (change of research priorities, actively expanding the behavioural sciences group, employing new staff, forming collaborations with other depts, a fair bit of funding about...).

That's my rationalisation anyway :tongue:

Reply 584

Craghyrax

17

Original post

by llacerta

I can see why such a stereotype might get irritating, and I understand that activities and societies and so on are a good way of forming friendships- it's something I've really enjoyed even as an undergraduate- but from my experiences it seems that very few postgraduates do get involved with clubs and societies and so on. It might be a time constraint thing, in which case making friends where you live, in halls or in a house, would be the easiest route, but as others have said, postgraduate halls tend to be quiet.

As people said earlier, that's true of people in the same age group who go into regular jobs. Its a time of life thing, not a postgraduate thing. (Having less time and being less engaged socially) So on that basis, being wary of postgraduate study for social reasons is pointless because its inevitable wherever you go :p:

I also fear whether I'd be as welcome as a postgraduate to clubs and societies (but my preconceptions might be more to do with my undergraduate uni lacking an integrative postgraduate culture).

They won't notice the difference. If you just turn up, people don't really ask or care how old you are. You'll find you tend to get forgotten when events or activities are publicised, but that's not because people don't want you around, but because they forget or assume postgrads aren't interested. As to postgrad-undergrad hostility, if anything it goes the other way round. Postgrads tend to see undergrads as immature, but I don't think undergrads have any problem interacting with postgrads.

Plus even as a third year, although I have friends who are freshers and who are lovely, I definitely relate better to those who are also in third year. I can imagine that as a postgraduate it might be more difficult to relate to undergraduates and it would be nice to have fellow postgraduate friends who you can share the ups and downs of postgraduate life with.

Tbh I don't think you'll struggle finding other sociable postgraduates to meet. It will just be that there's a smaller pool of them and that you can't be picky about things like subject. Both Universities I've been a student of have had active postgraduate unions and a social space and bar at least. If you go along to these things you always find other people there who are similarly keen to socialise. I've never bothered because I'm quite picky... I'm interested in meeting people with very similar research interests, which is something I only manage at conferences, not at my Uni. But if you're not worried about anything like that, meeting other postgrads is easy.

Reply 585

Aeschylus

17

I've been a bit more antisocial since my postgraduate degree compared to my undergraduate but I do enjoy working by myself. I still do all the sports and societies I ran in my undergrad so it's not as if I have a small circle of friends.

Reply 586

apotoftea

OP

19

Original post

by Craghyrax

I.e. large communal spaces with a gazillion societies, sports, cultural activities and the like to get involved in.

IF you're at a university that offers the above. I have none of the above UNLESS I use the undergrad focused London Union. That said, the ULU doesn't offer that much because the likes of King's, LSE, Imperial, UCL, QMUL all do. Furthermore, my recent experience of the ULU is that they're not interested in postgrads and are not their target area. I'll mix with all ages, I have friends of all ages but it is nice to be around other postgrads rather than 18 yr olds occasionally.

To be honest, my other university experience as a postgrad, the one I chose, was much the same, despite picking it as a social, active, meant to be pro postgrad place - what you mention was tailored at undergrads. The clubs I did get involved with had the 'oh we don't normally get postgrads' attitude. Christ sake, once the summer term had finished, they actually shut everything on campus bar the library, forgetting that close to 200 postgrads were still living in halls!! Interesting that both llacerta and I have found the same about the same institution but from opposite sides of the coin!

Maybe it's a History thing? I can count on one hand the PhD students I know in my own institution and that's not without trying to organise social events. Three quarters of them don't even read their university emails. A good friend has the same issue and she's in a department 4 times the size of mine...

Reply 587

obi_adorno_kenobi

Original post

by apotoftea

Maybe it's a History thing? I can count on one hand the PhD students I know in my own institution and that's not without trying to organise social events. Three quarters of them don't even read their university emails. A good friend has the same issue and she's in a department 4 times the size of mine...

History lends itself to being very singular and lonely. I've heard quite a few people describe it recently as a modern-day cottage industry, a metaphor that is strangely, and sadly, apt.

Reply 588

QHF

11

Original post

by llacerta

It's good that you've had positive experiences of being part of a society as well- that gives me hope!

Yeah, it must vary from club to club. I think I was lucky as the one I wound up in already had members who live in the city but aren't students -- a couple help run it -- plus some who were on four-year courses with integrated masters, so they were used to a bit more variation in membership.

Reply 589

Craghyrax

17

Original post

by apotoftea

IF you're at a university that offers the above. I have none of the above UNLESS I use the undergrad focused London Union. That said, the ULU doesn't offer that much because the likes of King's, LSE, Imperial, UCL, QMUL all do. Furthermore, my recent experience of the ULU is that they're not interested in postgrads and are not their target area. I'll mix with all ages, I have friends of all ages but it is nice to be around other postgrads rather than 18 yr olds occasionally.

Sure, but luckily she is still deciding whether to apply, which means its the easiest thing in the world to check that out before choosing Universities. And your institution is pretty unusual.

Reply 590

apotoftea

OP

19

Original post

by Craghyrax

Sure, but luckily she is still deciding whether to apply, which means its the easiest thing in the world to check that out before choosing Universities. And your institution is pretty unusual.

It is the easiest thing the world to do in but it doesn't necessarily mean it'll be true once you get there (which is what I found for my MA). Far better to actually ask which is what they have :smile:

It is unusual yes, but I don't believe for one second that it doesn't occur to a lesser extent elsewhere regarding open access to postgrads. I've got no idea what the other 8 institutions that make up the uni are like though - might ask actually as have a central meeting at some point :smile:

Reply 591

The_Lonely_Goatherd

20

I was a right loner at Goldsmiths. Well, in second year I always had a notetaker with me but that doesn't count :p:

I really liked doing the Masters over two years though. By the second year, I knew what I was doing and where things were and felt more at home :h:

Original post

by evantej

Gah, working like crazy on my dissertation which is due this Friday. Feel like it is a pile of crap. I am contacting Bristol because my local bus service has been cut again because of the bad weather. I was planning on going to Newcastle to get the thing bound and posted off, but there is a very realistic chance I will be stuck here...

Everything crossed for you :yes:

Reply 592

Craghyrax

17

Original post

by apotoftea

It is the easiest thing the world to do in but it doesn't necessarily mean it'll be true once you get there (which is what I found for my MA). Far better to actually ask which is what they have :smile:

I'm not sure what you thought I meant, but I meant that she ought to seek out current postgraduate students at prospective institutions and ask them for an insider view of the facilities and community for grads :confused:

Reply 593

*Corinna*

16

Original post

by Craghyrax

I think it makes a lot of sense to do your Masters either at your undergrad institution, or the institution you plan to do your PhD at. 9 or 10 months isn't really enough time to settle in and feel at home anywhere. Everyone's different, of course, but that was a factor in me staying at Cam for my MPhil, certainly!
But a PhD offers enough time to set up new roots and gather momentum with relationships.

This however assumes that 1. you did your undergrad at a university that was (and still is) one of your top choices and most importantly that 2. you know where you will end up for your PhD. Especially the latter is more or less impossible to know as everything depends on funding.

Reply 594

*Corinna*

16

Original post

by Craghyrax

I've always found the complete opposite. But then you did choose Classics :wink:

Who's stereotyping now? :tongue:

As a European classicist let me just tell you that this idea of classicist=posh is only (partly) true in the UK. In Greece doing classics is associated with completely different things (all girls who will end up boring/mean literature teachers at school - maybe a bit closer to the English literature stereotypes here?)

Original post

by flying plum

problem is, while scholarships and grants are still seen as indicators and differentiators of students later on (for example, when seeking out PhD funding), this isn't going to happen.

A very good way to solve this problem would be to do what we do in Greece where if you win an award/scholarship (say for being in the top 5 of your class) you only get money with it if your parents are below certain income. So say x rich person is first in line for AHRC, this person gets the title of having been selected for the AHRC without any money and the money goes to the 2nd person in line.

Reply 595

Craghyrax

17

Original post

by *Corinna*

Who's stereotyping now? :tongue:

As a European classicist let me just tell you that this idea of classicist=posh is only (partly) true in the UK. In Greece doing classics is associated with completely different things (all girls who will end up boring/mean literature teachers at school - maybe a bit closer to the English literature stereotypes here?)

We've had this conversation many times. I was just poking fun at the Lyceum.

Original post

by *Corinna*

This however assumes that 1. you did your undergrad at a university that was (and still is) one of your top choices and most importantly that 2. you know where you will end up for your PhD. Especially the latter is more or less impossible to know as everything depends on funding.

Obviously. Although in the social sciences you know where you'll be for your PhD if you secure 1+3 funding, which is the main way that the ESRC funds doctoral research.

I was just agreeing with Bluth's sentiment that if you're happy where you are already, its not a bad idea to factor that into your decisions about where to do your Masters.

Reply 596

ice_cube

17

I got my ball ticket after all. Went to the swearing in ceremony this morning at 5am, froze, cried, met Toby from the West Wing (grumpy like Toby) went to ball. Over the course of the day saw Beyonce, Kelly Clarkson, John Legend, Fun., John Mayer and STEVIE WONDER. I just about died.

Reply 597

Minerva

17

Original post

by ice_cube

I got my ball ticket after all. Went to the swearing in ceremony this morning at 5am, froze, cried, met Toby from the West Wing (grumpy like Toby) went to ball. Over the course of the day saw Beyonce, Kelly Clarkson, John Legend, Fun., John Mayer and STEVIE WONDER. I just about died.

Sounds like the trip was worth it after all :smile:

Reply 598

sj27

14

Original post

by ice_cube

I got my ball ticket after all. Went to the swearing in ceremony this morning at 5am, froze, cried, met Toby from the West Wing (grumpy like Toby) went to ball. Over the course of the day saw Beyonce, Kelly Clarkson, John Legend, Fun., John Mayer and STEVIE WONDER. I just about died.

Reply 599

hobnob

14

Original post

by Minerva

The issue is that it is not government policy (and this is not a party specific policy, none of them has suggested changing it) to provide public funding for post-graduate study other than through the increasingly constrained and under-funded research councils. That is not Oxford's fault.

(Sorry about the late bump; I only just saw this).
That's part of the issue - and for what it's worth, I completely agree with you that it's not specifically Oxford's fault and the same problem exists at pretty much all other universities.
Having said that, one thing that I suppose you could blame Oxford for (and which also seems to be part of the issue in that case) is arbitrarily setting the living costs that form the basis for the financial guarantee far too high. According to their estimate of 'minimum' living costs a single person will spend over £50 a week just on food, and another £50 on socialising and other expenses, and the amount stated for rent and utility bills is high even by Oxford standards. Unless you lead quite an extravagant lifestyle you probably won't need anywhere near as much money as set out in the financial guarantee. Basically the sum is set so high to prevent people from applying to the university hardship funds if they run into difficulties later on during their course. Understandable from their point of view, of course, but it still seems slightly underhand to try and do this by inflating the actual costs of living in Oxford. :erm:

(edited 12 years ago)

GOGSoc Episode VI: The GoG, the Bad and the Ugly

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