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Cornopean
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#1
Report 18 years ago
#1
Is it unfair to expect a pupil to participate in school orchestra or band if they receive free
tuition at school?

I tend to think not. Any comments?

--
Cornopean
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Mo
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#2
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"Cornopean" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
[q1]> Is it unfair to expect a pupil to participate in school orchestra or band if they receive free[/q1]
[q1]> tuition at school?[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> I tend to think not. Any comments?[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> --[/q1]
[q1]> Cornopean[/q1]

I agree. Apart from simple arguments of give and take, group skills are important as a musician,
whatever ability level. GCSE requires group performance and A-Level Music Technology requires you to
list performances you've taken part in during the course.

I've hit on this a few times in the past and my solution was to look at my instrumental tuition
contract. (bit like home-school agreement, isnt enforceable but sets out everyone's expectations.) I
added a clause about participating in a certain number of school events. Made the same thing part of
the GCSE option package.

The issue of payment for lessons is unimportant I think because of the musical skills they need to
build by taking part in groupwork. I had the same policy for payers and non-payers.

FWIW.
Mo.
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Slieber24
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#3
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#3
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
(Cornopean) writes:

[q1]>Is it unfair to expect a pupil to participate in school orchestra or band if they receive free[/q1]
[q1]>tuition at school?[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>I tend to think not. Any comments?[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]

It is unfair, because some pupils simply are not performance-oriented. It would be horrific for a
shy child who wants to learn to play an instrument to have to peform, as well.

I'm about to give free tuition in music to my entire class, once a week, on 4 or 5 different
instruments at the same time. I would like to make them into a little band, if possible, at some
point, but I won't force the issue. I do want them to enjoy the feel of playing an instrument (more
or less) and accomplishing something beyond the singing of hymns in hymn practice or the dry lessons
imposed by QCA.

It also means more or less cacophony for me, but I think I can take it once a week!! (Violin,
keyboard, chimes, recorder - descant and tenor, guitar)

Ghu help me....

----------------------------------------------------
Sandi

Remove NoSpam to reply.
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Beauty123
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Yes I think it IS unfair to expect a pupil to participate in a school orchestra if they do not want
to. I think it's fair to talk to them about loyalty and giving to the community (without putting
pressure on them), but surely we're trying to teach children that they have the right to make
informed choices and the right to exercise their freedom, and besides: if they don't want to be in
the orchestra, what's the point?

On a side-issue, you seem to be saying that if they DID pay for their tuition then the choice could
be theirs.

I don't think that's fair.

The issue of free tuition seems to me to be separate from whether they should or should not play in
the orchestra.

If the school is prepared to provide free tuition, then let them do it out of the integrity of that
provision - not to get some "payback" which may look good for the School.

Beauty123

Cornopean <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
[q1]> Is it unfair to expect a pupil to participate in school orchestra or band if they receive free[/q1]
[q1]> tuition at school?[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> I tend to think not. Any comments?[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> --[/q1]
[q1]> Cornopean[/q1]
0
Mo
Badges:
#5
Report 18 years ago
#5
"SLieber24" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
[q1]> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected][/q1]
[q1]> (Cornopean) writes:[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q2]> >Is it unfair to expect a pupil to participate in school orchestra or band if they receive free[/q2]
[q2]> >tuition at school?[/q2]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> >I tend to think not. Any comments?[/q2]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> It is unfair, because some pupils simply are not performance-oriented. It[/q1]
would
[q1]> be horrific for a shy child who wants to learn to play an instrument to[/q1]
have to
[q1]> peform, as well.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> I'm about to give free tuition in music to my entire class, once a week,[/q1]
on 4
[q1]> or 5 different instruments at the same time. I would like to make them[/q1]
into a
[q1]> little band, if possible, at some point, but I won't force the issue. I do[/q1]
want
[q1]> them to enjoy the feel of playing an instrument (more or less) and accomplishing something beyond[/q1]
[q1]> the singing of hymns in hymn practice or[/q1]
the dry
[q1]> lessons imposed by QCA.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> It also means more or less cacophony for me, but I think I can take it[/q1]
once a
[q1]> week!! (Violin, keyboard, chimes, recorder - descant and tenor, guitar)[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Ghu help me....[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> ----------------------------------------------------[/q1]
[q1]> Sandi[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Remove NoSpam to reply.[/q1]

Shy kids who get to play in groups get so much pleasure and confidence from the experience. The
success depends on the sensitivity of the teacher in being able to pick the right moment, the right
piece, the right group to play in and the right audience.

Music helps us communicate, reflect, relax, relate etc etc. It is a very limited experience if kept
to yourself.

By doing your group lesson you are actually providing group music. You don't have to be called a
band / orchestra, if you start by playing together the rest follows naturally.

Group music making shouldn't be portrayed as difficult or frightening by other teachers. I wouldn't
dare suggest children should never read aloud in class because they are shy.

Mo.
0
Beauty123
Badges:
#6
Report 18 years ago
#6
Mo <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> "SLieber24" <[email protected]> wrote in message[/q1]
[q1]> news:[email protected]...[/q1]
[q2]> > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Cornopean)[/q2]
[q2]> > writes:[/q2]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q3]> > >Is it unfair to expect a pupil to participate in school orchestra or band if they receive free[/q3]
[q3]> > >tuition at school?[/q3]
[q3]> > >[/q3]
[q3]> > >I tend to think not. Any comments?[/q3]
[q3]> > >[/q3]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> > It is unfair, because some pupils simply are not performance-oriented.[/q2]
It
[q1]> would[/q1]
[q2]> > be horrific for a shy child who wants to learn to play an instrument to[/q2]
[q1]> have to[/q1]
[q2]> > peform, as well.[/q2]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> > I'm about to give free tuition in music to my entire class, once a week,[/q2]
[q1]> on 4[/q1]
[q2]> > or 5 different instruments at the same time. I would like to make them[/q2]
[q1]> into a[/q1]
[q2]> > little band, if possible, at some point, but I won't force the issue. I[/q2]
do
[q1]> want[/q1]
[q2]> > them to enjoy the feel of playing an instrument (more or less) and accomplishing something[/q2]
[q2]> > beyond the singing of hymns in hymn practice or[/q2]
[q1]> the dry[/q1]
[q2]> > lessons imposed by QCA.[/q2]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> > It also means more or less cacophony for me, but I think I can take it[/q2]
[q1]> once a[/q1]
[q2]> > week!! (Violin, keyboard, chimes, recorder - descant and tenor, guitar)[/q2]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> > Ghu help me....[/q2]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> > ----------------------------------------------------[/q2]
[q2]> > Sandi[/q2]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> > Remove NoSpam to reply.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Shy kids who get to play in groups get so much pleasure and confidence[/q1]
from
[q1]> the experience. The success depends on the sensitivity of the teacher in being able to pick the[/q1]
[q1]> right moment, the right piece, the right group to play in and the right audience.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Music helps us communicate, reflect, relax, relate etc etc. It is a very limited experience if[/q1]
[q1]> kept to yourself.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> By doing your group lesson you are actually providing group music. You[/q1]
don't
[q1]> have to be called a band / orchestra, if you start by playing together the rest follows naturally.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Group music making shouldn't be portrayed as difficult or frightening by other teachers. I[/q1]
[q1]> wouldn't dare suggest children should never read aloud[/q1]
in
[q1]> class because they are shy.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Mo.[/q1]

There are obviously big benefits to playing in a group.

Nevertheless if a child just wants to learn AND ENJOY playing in private, then that should be fine.

It's a bit like the person who likes to pray at home to God, but doesn't like trooping off
to church.

It's a matter of choice. A matter of temperament.

The discussion, the decision, the choice... should be carried out at home.

Then you should respect the child's wishes.

It's not our place, as teachers, to pressurize kids into doing something they don't want to do. Just
let the kid enjoy learning her instrument, for goodness sake! Respect her choice and her own
temperament.

And maybe, in time, the child will WANT to belong to an orchestra.

As for the attitude "Well we give her FREE tuition so shouldn't we EXPECT her to join the
orchestra"... well I give my children free tuition in English but I don't expect them to "pay
me back"...

It's especially sensitive, if a child cannot AFFORD music tuition if you load any kind of guilt trip
on the child.

Beauty123
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