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3 out of 4 'danger doctors' are immigrants. Watch

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    the general medical council has just revealed that 3 out of every 4 doctors who have been struck off in the last 5 years have been trained abroad.

    • Three quarters of doctors struck off the medical register this year were trained abroad.

    • Doctors trained overseas are five times more likely to be struck off than those trained in the UK.

    • The country with the biggest single number of doctors who have been removed or suspended from the medical register, is India, followed by Nigeria and Egypt.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9771022/Revealed-3-in-4-of-Britains-danger-doctors-are-trained-abroad.html


    for someone like me who is a passionate supporter of the NHS and the welfare state, it absolutely appals me to see the NHS hiring these cheap, poorly trained foreign doctors when half of all newly qualified british GP's cannot get permanent work in this country.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/3241853/Half-of-newly-qualified-GPs-cannot-find-permanent-jobs-doctors-survey-finds.html


    the NHS is putting peoples lives at risk for the sake of cheap labour -- and the more it imports cheap labour, the more it will push out british trained doctors and the downward spiral will continue.

    ( edit: cheap because NHS does not have to train them and a saturated job market stagnates pay for everyone )

    british people must stop being so naive and wide eyed about these matters -- standards in some other countries are simply not as high as here.
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    (Original post by Procastinator)
    Doctors from India and other Asian countries are here because they are needed. They have more experience in dealing with a billion different cases, most which doctors here would have not even heard of. Much of the NHS is run on foreigners, if you get rid of them - do you think you are smart enough to handle it all?

    I think it's the language problem, but at least they can adjust so quickly to a completely different culture and setting.

    why are they needed when half of all british doctors cannot find work?

    they cannot find work because the NHS is hiring cheap alternatives. it has nothing to do with qualifications. the NHS, because of its reliance on cheap labour, has driven down wages and is no longer an attractive option for the very best doctors and nurses who are going abroad for better pay and conditions.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9573813/NHS-facing-massive-loss-of-doctors-overseas.html






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    (Original post by kombu)
    the general medical council has just revealed that 3 out of every 4 doctors who have been struck off in the last 5 years have been trained abroad.

    • Three quarters of doctors struck off the medical register this year were trained abroad.

    • Doctors trained overseas are five times more likely to be struck off than those trained in the UK.

    • The country with the biggest single number of doctors who have been removed or suspended from the medical register, is India, followed by Nigeria and Egypt.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9771022/Revealed-3-in-4-of-Britains-danger-doctors-are-trained-abroad.html


    for someone like me who is a passionate supporter of the NHS and the welfare state, it absolutely appals me to see the NHS hiring these cheap, poorly trained foreign doctors when half of all newly qualified british GP's cannot get permanent work in this country.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/3241853/Half-of-newly-qualified-GPs-cannot-find-permanent-jobs-doctors-survey-finds.html


    the NHS is putting peoples lives at risk for the sake of cheap labour -- and the more it imports cheap labour, the more it will push out british trained doctors and the downward spiral will continue.

    british people must stop being so naive and wide eyed about these matters -- standards in some other countries are simply not as high as here.
    You are so ignorant / little knowledge is bad!
    :facepalm:
    Niall Dickson, chief executive of the GMC, said the health service would not have survived without the contribution from overseas doctors, and that it was important not to demonise tens of thousands of professionals who had brought their skills to this country.

    and...

    also read this

    Dr Umesh Prahbu, national vice-chairman of the British International Doctors Association, said he believed the reasons why overseas doctors are far more likely to be struck off were complex and varied.
    He said: “The NHS is known for having problems with discrimination and racism and I think this is part of it.”
    Dr Prahbu said that patients were no more likely to lodge complaints about doctors trained overseas than they were about those from the UK, yet when it came to referrals from NHS trusts, foreign doctors were far more likely to be referred to the GMC.
    Analysis of the 2008 to 2012 figures shows that among cases of those struck off, 17 per cent of those involving UK-trained doctors began with a complaint from a patient, compared with 11 per cent in the case of those from abroad.
    Dr Prahbu, medical director of Wrightington, Wigan and Leigh NHS foundation trust, said other problems stemmed from cultural differences and communication problems, more than from differences in clinical training.
    Dr Prahbu, who trained in India, said the technical training was very similar to that in the UK, but it was more difficult to learn about the “softer” skills and ensure that patients felt treated with courtesy.
    A Department of Health spokesman said the checks being introduced would “ensure that the small number of dangerous, often overseas trained, locum doctors who do not understand the British medical system are stopped from treating patients.”
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    Did you ever think that the doctors NHS hire are better/more qualified than some of the British alternatives?


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    (Original post by kombu)
    why are they needed when half of all british doctors cannot find work?

    they cannot find work because the NHS is hiring cheap alternatives. it has nothing to do with qualifications. the NHS, because of its reliance on cheap labour, has driven down wages and is no longer an attractive option for the very best doctors and nurses who are going abroad for better pay and conditions.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9573813/NHS-facing-massive-loss-of-doctors-overseas.html






    Your argument is null and void, because foreign doctors are no cheaper to hire than British doctors. That highlights the fact that they are hired because they are actually needed, it doesn't save the NHS any money by doing so.

    And here's a tip: Foreign doctors are at least as qualified (if not more qualified) to practice in comparison to British doctors.
    Personally I don't know any bad foreign trained doctor but I know a few crappy ones trained here. My current GP for example.
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    (Original post by Procastinator)
    You are so ignorant / little knowledge is bad!
    :facepalm:
    Niall Dickson, chief executive of the GMC, said the health service would not have survived without the contribution from overseas doctors, and that it was important not to demonise tens of thousands of professionals who had brought their skills to this country.

    and...

    also read this

    Dr Umesh Prahbu, national vice-chairman of the British International Doctors Association, said he believed the reasons why overseas doctors are far more likely to be struck off were complex and varied.
    He said: “The NHS is known for having problems with discrimination and racism and I think this is part of it.”
    Dr Prahbu said that patients were no more likely to lodge complaints about doctors trained overseas than they were about those from the UK, yet when it came to referrals from NHS trusts, foreign doctors were far more likely to be referred to the GMC.
    Analysis of the 2008 to 2012 figures shows that among cases of those struck off, 17 per cent of those involving UK-trained doctors began with a complaint from a patient, compared with 11 per cent in the case of those from abroad.
    Dr Prahbu, medical director of Wrightington, Wigan and Leigh NHS foundation trust, said other problems stemmed from cultural differences and communication problems, more than from differences in clinical training.
    Dr Prahbu, who trained in India, said the technical training was very similar to that in the UK, but it was more difficult to learn about the “softer” skills and ensure that patients felt treated with courtesy.
    A Department of Health spokesman said the checks being introduced would “ensure that the small number of dangerous, often overseas trained, locum doctors who do not understand the British medical system are stopped from treating patients.”

    who is demonising tens of thousands of foreign staff??????

    it is just basic economics. if you rely on importation of cheap foreign alternatives ( even if they are well trained ) then it is going to become very hard for homegrown doctors to find work.

    but, the facts are foreign doctors are 5 times more likely to be struck off. they are not as well trained as british doctors......racism??? please. how utterly offensive to those who have suffered at the hands of these poorly trained doctors.

    it takes 5 or 6 years and costs the state 250,000 to train doctors in britain. that half of these cannot find work, and are increasingly looking abroad to secure jobs is what Dr Ben Molyneuxm, incoming chairman of union of doctors called a 'perfect storm' for the NHS.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...-overseas.html
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    To those saying doctors get paid based on position etc and not race, I'm pretty sure the OP is talking about the cost of training rather than salaries.

    Or maybe not, I dunno, because if that were the case then the state is wasting even more money if some doctors can't find jobs according to some sources posted here. Which would actually make them more expensive alternatives.


    Just re-read it, the OP said cheap labour - so yeah, that argument is flawed.
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    (Original post by PureMathsigma)
    Your argument is null and void, because foreign doctors are no cheaper to hire than British doctors. That highlights the fact that they are hired because they are actually needed, it doesn't save the NHS any money by doing so.

    And here's a tip: Foreign doctors are at least as qualified (if not more qualified) to practice in comparison to British doctors.
    Personally I don't know any bad foreign trained doctor but I know a few crappy ones trained here. My current GP for example.


    but, it is much cheaper for the NHS to hire from overseas. for example, in 2011 there were just 9 training posts in paediatric surgery. so just 9 people were being trained up in britain for that opportunity. it is very expensive to train up a paediatric surgeon so it is much easier and cheaper for the NHS to go abroad.

    but, its impossible for wages to raise in a saturated job market. thats just economics 101.

    again, foreign trained doctors are 5 times more likely to be struck off british trained. so to say they are better trained is just not true.

    these countries do not have the same standards of training or experiences of running a national health service like britain. so it is no wonder their training is not as good.
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    (Original post by Waterstorm)
    To those saying doctors get paid based on position etc and not race, I'm pretty sure the OP is talking about the cost of training rather than salaries.

    Or maybe not, I dunno, because if that were the case then the state is wasting even more money if some doctors can't find jobs according to some sources posted here. Which would actually make them more expensive alternatives.


    Just re-read it, the OP said cheap labour - so yeah, that argument is flawed.
    sorry, it is cheap labour if you cut out the costs of training. maybe the salaries are the same but wages cannot rise if the job vacancies are so competitive.
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    One of the best eye doctors (he does surgery too) in the local eye infirmary (Royal Eye Infirmary, Plymouth) is foreign. I was also seen in London by a foreign ophthalmologist who managed to diagnose me with something that others failed to spot.

    There are good foreign and British doctors and there are rubbish ones too.
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    (Original post by kombu)
    why are they needed when half of all british doctors cannot find work?

    they cannot find work because the NHS is hiring cheap alternatives. it has nothing to do with qualifications. the NHS, because of its reliance on cheap labour, has driven down wages and is no longer an attractive option for the very best doctors and nurses who are going abroad for better pay and conditions.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9573813/NHS-facing-massive-loss-of-doctors-overseas.html






    that is soooo wrong and inaccurate on sooo many scales that I don't even know where to start
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    (Original post by OU Student)
    One of the best eye doctors (he does surgery too) in the local eye infirmary (Royal Eye Infirmary, Plymouth) is foreign. I was also seen in London by a foreign ophthalmologist who managed to diagnose me with something that others failed to spot.

    There are good foreign and British doctors and there are rubbish ones too.

    yes, when i was ill a couple of years ago i was seen by a very highly skilled foreign specialist. i was told he was one of the best in his field and was lucky to a have him.

    but, this is not my point. i am not suggesting for a second the NHS does not need foreign doctors or that all foreign doctors are poorly trained.

    i am simply saying clearly there is an over reliance on them -- which has many negative knock on effects -- and that the vetting process is simply not good enough.
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    I couldn't care less where my doctor is from, so long as he is properly qualified and able to speak clear English.
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    I have had an incompetent doctor who was an immigrant. She didn't believe me that I had a tumour and prescribed me paracetamol and ibuprofen several times to help the pain because she kept telling me I had pulled a muscle even after months. She also sent me away for physio which was obviously not going to help. I changed doctors after that and some of the doctors born here were just as bad. A year later something is finally being done about it.
    Obviously not all immigrant doctors are bad. As long as they're properly trained and are actually decent doctors then I don't care where they're from.
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    (Original post by kombu)
    the general medical council has just revealed that 3 out of every 4 doctors who have been struck off in the last 5 years have been trained abroad.

    • Three quarters of doctors struck off the medical register this year were trained abroad.

    • Doctors trained overseas are five times more likely to be struck off than those trained in the UK.

    • The country with the biggest single number of doctors who have been removed or suspended from the medical register, is India, followed by Nigeria and Egypt.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9771022/Revealed-3-in-4-of-Britains-danger-doctors-are-trained-abroad.html


    for someone like me who is a passionate supporter of the NHS and the welfare state, it absolutely appals me to see the NHS hiring these cheap, poorly trained foreign doctors when half of all newly qualified british GP's cannot get permanent work in this country.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/3241853/Half-of-newly-qualified-GPs-cannot-find-permanent-jobs-doctors-survey-finds.html


    the NHS is putting peoples lives at risk for the sake of cheap labour -- and the more it imports cheap labour, the more it will push out british trained doctors and the downward spiral will continue.

    ( edit: cheap because NHS does not have to train them and a saturated job market stagnates pay for everyone )

    british people must stop being so naive and wide eyed about these matters -- standards in some other countries are simply not as high as here.

    You havent noted for what these doctors were struck off for- you can be struck off for not paying your GMC or BMA fees regulalry.
    i wouldnt call overseas doctors 'cheap labour' generally nhs arnt importing junior medics, the are bringing highly qualified consultant and consultant surgeons that so your comparision to the average unemplyed newly grad, is daft. We do bring in a lot of doctors - over 25000 from india according to your stats, but then why would nhs do so if they didnt actually need them
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    I believe that foreigns should NOT be considered until ALL british candidates have been. This is Britain. The British MUST come first.
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    being foreign doesnt mean substandard....just because theyre from abroad doesnt mean you can imply they are effectively cheap sweatshop labourers... foreigners can be just as good as any other
    and surely anyone who is brought into the uk would have to meet british standards before being allowed to work...
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    (Original post by Azarimanka)
    I believe that foreigns should NOT be considered until ALL british candidates have been. This is Britain. The British MUST come first.
    So you'd rather have a worse doctor if you were ill in favour of a better foreign one? (Seeing as most positions are based on abilitu rather than nationality.) Or if you were diagnosed with a rare illness, have a mediocre doctor that may not be able to help, or the worlds best in that field who is foreign?

    With doctors, people's lives are involved. We should aim to have the best so we can provide the best care, not unnecessarily risk lives due to nationality.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    You havent noted for what these doctors were struck off for- you can be struck off for not paying your GMC or BMA fees regulalry.
    i wouldnt call overseas doctors 'cheap labour' generally nhs arnt importing junior medics, the are bringing highly qualified consultant and consultant surgeons that so your comparision to the average unemplyed newly grad, is daft. We do bring in a lot of doctors - over 25000 from india according to your stats, but then why would nhs do so if they didnt actually need them

    to save money. it saves the NHS billions hiring doctors and other specialists from overseas as they do not have to invest in training.

    as a side note, this practice is called 'poaching' and as well as being highly immoral, is actually illegal (UN Resolution 2417 forbids poaching specialist professionals )
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    (Original post by kombu)
    to save money. it saves the NHS billions hiring overseas as they do not have to invest in training.

    as a side note, this practice is called 'poaching' and as well as being highly immoral, is actually illegal (UN Resolution 2417 forbids poaching specialist professionals )


    meaning then if they didnt import dcotors the nhs would have to spend the extra billions (it doesnt have) and then operate with less doctors.

    is this your solution then
 
 
 
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