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3 out of 4 'danger doctors' are immigrants. Watch

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    (Original post by Azarimanka)
    I believe that foreigns should NOT be considered until ALL british candidates have been. This is Britain. The British MUST come first.
    Boneheaded nationalism will be the death of this country. If a foreign doctor is better you are saying we shouldn't take him just because he is not British? Ringfencing jobs for British citizens only does not solve the problem, improving British doctor training will.
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    meaning then if they didnt import dcotors the nhs would have to spend the extra billions (it doesnt have) and then operate with less doctors.

    is this your solution then
    the first solution is to stop the brain drain of NHS trained workers to overseas.

    the other absurdity about all of this, is the fact that the NHS even has an oversupply of trained doctors.

    if it has an oversupply, then why is it hiring abroad?

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7aba53de-7...#axzz2GXBmSMNr
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    I had a rather negative experience with an Indian psychiatrist. He prescribed me two drugs to be taken at the same time, Phenelzine and Paroxetine, that are severely contraindicated with one another. Probably wouldn't be writing this if I had followed his directions as the combination of those drugs is likely to kill you. Obviously though he does not represent the entire foreign-trained doctor population.

    /end personal anecdote
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    (Original post by kombu)
    the first solution is to stop the brain drain of NHS trained workers to overseas.

    the other absurdity about all of this, is the fact that the NHS even has an oversupply of trained doctors.

    if it has an oversupply, then why is it hiring abroad?

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7aba53de-7...#axzz2GXBmSMNr
    But surely the 'brain drain' is a good thing? If doctors move to other countries, then the supply of doctors in Britain is reduced, which is what you wanted in the first place.
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    (Original post by pi=3)
    But surely the 'brain drain' is a good thing? If doctors move to other countries, then the supply of doctors in Britain is reduced, which is what you wanted in the first place.

    well, yes i agree. so why the reliance of foreign doctors? i would have thought if an oversupply existed then there would be no need for foreign doctors? -- thats why i say its an absurd situation that the NHS has got itself into.
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    (Original post by kombu)
    the first solution is to stop the brain drain of NHS trained workers to overseas.

    the other absurdity about all of this, is the fact that the NHS even has an oversupply of trained doctors.

    if it has an oversupply, then why is it hiring abroad?

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7aba53de-7...#axzz2GXBmSMNr

    then you are simply contradicting your earlier statement of "not enough domestic doctors being trained up" Anyone would tell you in the last 10 years there has been a massive uptake of med degrees in uk universties

    according to the BMA-
    "chair of the BMA’s consultant committee, told the newspaper that urgent action was needed to “stop the stupidity of people qualifying for jobs that aren’t going to exist.”



    NHS are employing overseas consultants etc that have relavnt clinical or surgical experience to fill gaps in our current system - but thats not to say they have neglected training up new doctors- clearly according to your articale and the bma they have over trained
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    (Original post by kombu)
    well, yes i agree. so why the reliance of foreign doctors? i would have thought if an oversupply existed then there would be no need for foreign doctors? -- thats why i say its an absurd situation that the NHS has got itself into.
    The NHS is hiring skilled professionals more qualified than those available in Britain
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    This isn't an isuue of being under-qualified. Sometimes you make mistakes and sometimes you don't. I dont think you can actually point the finger at immigration, theres no direct evidence to prove it and I believe this article was written out of bias / to satisfy an agenda. Calling them danger doctors is ridiculous.
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    (Original post by kombu)
    well, yes i agree. so why the reliance of foreign doctors? i would have thought if an oversupply existed then there would be no need for foreign doctors? -- thats why i say its an absurd situation that the NHS has got itself into.
    hmm...is the oversupply necessarily a bad thing when compared to undersupply? If there was an undersupply, then would it not drive up the cost of paying doctors, according to simple supply-demand laws? On the other hand, if the oversupply persists, surely the NHS can afford pay less in wages and still ensure every post is filled?
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    Hell, some people here are making the assumption that being trained abroad equates to being under-qualified when they dont even know which university these "danger doctors" have studied at.
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    bluudy immigints, dey took our jerbs, now dey takin our lives!
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    (Original post by Algorithm69)
    Your anecdotal evidence is meaningless. The statistics speak for themselves. No one is suggesting all foreign doctors are hacks. Stop straw manning the argument.

    Seriously, you lefties will do everything possible to protect your failed ideology.
    eh? I was just talking about my own experience.:confused:
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    then you are simply contradicting your earlier statement of "not enough domestic doctors being trained up" Anyone would tell you in the last 10 years there has been a massive uptake of med degrees in uk universties

    according to the BMA-
    "chair of the BMA’s consultant committee, told the newspaper that urgent action was needed to “stop the stupidity of people qualifying for jobs that aren’t going to exist.”



    NHS are employing overseas consultants etc that have relavnt clinical or surgical experience to fill gaps in our current system - but thats not to say they have neglected training up new doctors- clearly according to your articale and the bma they have over trained

    well, no, i never said not enough domestic doctors i said domestic doctors are facing very tough competition from abroad -- according to this report half of all GPs cannot find work.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/32...vey-finds.html

    it seems impossible that the NHS is dealing with a combination of unemployment, brain drain and oversupply all at once -- it only makes any sense if you factor in its insistence on hiring foreign doctors.

    which, the more i look into the situation, the more i cannot understand -- especially in the area of GPs. maybe there is some kind of conspiracy i am missing?? lol
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    (Original post by pi=3)
    hmm...is the oversupply necessarily a bad thing when compared to undersupply? If there was an undersupply, then would it not drive up the cost of paying doctors, according to simple supply-demand laws? On the other hand, if the oversupply persists, surely the NHS can afford pay less in wages and still ensure every post is filled?
    well, its a bad thing if the NHS is spending 250,000 training up doctors.
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    (Original post by kombu)
    why are they needed when half of all british doctors cannot find work?

    they cannot find work because the NHS is hiring cheap alternatives. it has nothing to do with qualifications. the NHS, because of its reliance on cheap labour, has driven down wages and is no longer an attractive option for the very best doctors and nurses who are going abroad for better pay and conditions.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9573813/NHS-facing-massive-loss-of-doctors-overseas.html






    You don't know what you're talking about practically every British trained doctor gets a job.
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    (Original post by kombu)
    but, it is much cheaper for the NHS to hire from overseas. for example, in 2011 there were just 9 training posts in paediatric surgery. so just 9 people were being trained up in britain for that opportunity. it is very expensive to train up a paediatric surgeon so it is much easier and cheaper for the NHS to go abroad.
    They needed doctors for paediatric surgery, and needed them now? As I said other countries have just as high if not higher standards of medical training. Foreign GPs for example are used to dealing with (and dealing with effectively) much more than light colds and tummy aches (unlike here in Britain).

    again, foreign trained doctors are 5 times more likely to be struck off british trained. so to say they are better trained is just not true.
    As another poster has already stated, patients are no more likely to report a foreign doctor than a 'native' one. However NHS supervisors, for whatever reason are more likely to do so.

    This is most likely because 'native' doctors will be able to handle false cases better than foreign ones new to the system. The fact that a higher proportion of foreign doctors have been struck off does not mean their training was of a lower quality.

    these countries do not have the same standards of training or experiences of running a national health service like britain. so it is no wonder their training is not as good.
    Would you like to provide the proof that they "do not have the same standards" other than your ignorant belief that everything British, everything western is heaven on earth? I at least have honest evidence that GPs in developing nations are better than many British trained GPs.

    There was a girl who lived in my area who used to constantly feel ill and vomit uncontrollably. What did the amazing British doctors think? "She's homesick". Then, she goes with her family to Pakistan on holiday to relieve this "home sickness". The GP in Pakistan correctly diagnoses her with having a brain tumour.
    If you go to my current GP with serious pain in part of your body, he will tell you to do no work and that you will have to live with this impediment (indefinitely). If you go to a doctor in Pakistan they will prescribe medication, and realistic forms of treatment (such as exercises) rather than living with the inability to do most things.

    I don't want to offend you but this has to be said: You sound like a pseudo-educated British girl who thinks that she is enlightened with the 'education' the 'developed' country in which she resides has given her. The 'liberal' views in her mind are such that she cannot even spell British or Britain with a capital B. Further, she refuses to accept that foreign doctors are just as good as British ones. If they weren't, the NHS would not employ them.

    Trust me, this country does have some better things going for it than other countries, for which I am grateful. An education in this country for most other professions is regarded exceptionally highly as opposed to many other nations. However, the medical profession is not one of them. If you train to be a doctor almost anywhere, you are fit to be a doctor here.
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    Sorry. I am one of these nasty foreigners too. Which makes most of that psuedo-babble pointless.
    saying standards in other countries are better than Britain, if not better, is not proof. Yes some may be better but there will be many developing countries where this is not the case.....it's not doctors from America who are being struck Off is it?
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    Amazing to see how about 10% of people have posted sensible arguments,
    with information to back it up and the other 90 is split up into the ones with a
    desperate need to prove they're not racist, or "decent human beings" who don't discriminate
    and to a lesser extent people who got enraged by the post and thought, those damn immigrants!

    Veeeery interesting! :holmes:
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    I do hate how people will always say there is institutional racism in every British institution and people just accept it.

    I'd like to see Dr Umesh Prahbu's proof of this.
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    (Original post by PureMathsigma)
    They needed doctors for paediatric surgery, and needed them now? As I said other countries have just as high if not higher standards of medical training. Foreign GPs for example are used to dealing with (and dealing with effectively) much more than light colds and tummy aches (unlike here in Britain).

    As another poster has already stated, patients are no more likely to report a foreign doctor than a 'native' one. However NHS supervisors, for whatever reason are more likely to do so.

    This is most likely because 'native' doctors will be able to handle false cases better than foreign ones new to the system. The fact that a higher proportion of foreign doctors have been struck off does not mean their training was of a lower quality.

    Would you like to provide the proof that they "do not have the same standards" other than your ignorant belief that everything British, everything western is heaven on earth? I at least have honest evidence that GPs in developing nations are better than many British trained GPs.

    There was a girl who lived in my area who used to constantly feel ill and vomit uncontrollably. What did the amazing British doctors think? "She's homesick". Then, she goes with her family to Pakistan on holiday to relieve this "home sickness". The GP in Pakistan correctly diagnoses her with having a brain tumour.
    If you go to my current GP with serious pain in part of your body, he will tell you to do no work and that you will have to live with this impediment (indefinitely). If you go to a doctor in Pakistan they will prescribe medication, and realistic forms of treatment (such as exercises) rather than living with the inability to do most things.

    I don't want to offend you but this has to be said: You sound like a pseudo-educated British girl who thinks that she is enlightened with the 'education' the 'developed' country in which she resides has given her. The 'liberal' views in her mind are such that she cannot even spell British or Britain with a capital B. Further, she refuses to accept that foreign doctors are just as good as British ones. If they weren't, the NHS would not employ them.

    Trust me, this country does have some better things going for it than other countries, for which I am grateful. An education in this country for most other professions is regarded exceptionally highly as opposed to many other nations. However, the medical profession is not one of them. If you train to be a doctor almost anywhere, you are fit to be a doctor here.
    Sorry. I am one of these nasty foreigners too. Which makes most of that psuedo-babble pointless.

    saying standards in other countries are better than Britain, if not better, is not proof. anecdotal evidence is not proof.

    Yes some may be better but there will be many developing countries where this is not the case.....it's not doctors from America who are being struck Off is it?

    the medical council say its indians who are most likely to be struck off. so let me ask you, why are british indians trained over here not being struck off at disproportionate levels?
 
 
 
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