Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

How can anyone seriously be against capital punishment? Watch

    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by josh_v)
    If the British court convicts people based evidence beyond reasonable doubt, can you please explain to me why the British court put an innocent man to death?

    Further, you think the way to deal with crowded prisons is to introduce execution? How many people do you think would be executed a year to solve this problem of overcrowding?
    Define innocent
    Online

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sevchenko)
    Can you provide the case where a innocent person was put to death ? Repeat offenders of serious crimes should be put to death. It would reduce the amount of people in prisons.
    Certainly.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Evans

    Care to define "Repeat serious offences"?
    Online

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by xiyangliu)
    Innocent ?? Wtf are u talking abt ?!!? Are u crazy !? Those six men are not innocent !!!!!!
    Which six men? I dont really know what youre talking about.

    (Original post by xiyangliu)
    Define innocent
    Innocent: Not guilty of a crime or offence
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    It's worth mentioning this happened in India, a nation which already implements the death sentence for certain crimes. I imagine unthinkable acts are done in every corner of this world, regardless of what the law says, and so I have strong doubts as to the effectiveness of this measure as a deterrent.

    What's also worth mentioning is that from reading the reactions of people to these sort of horrible incidents, the cry for the guilty to be executed is motivated by vengeance but culturally, as well as legally, we've chosen not to accept revenge as compatible with justice.

    So the question is this: is the OP baffled as to why some do not seek vengeance or do they really believe executing these men will achieve anything?
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by josh_v)
    Certainly.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Evans

    Care to define "Repeat serious offences"?
    That was the 50's mate, I think we can both agree that forensic science and the technology the police have at their disposal has considerably advanced since then and detecting criminals is easier.

    What I mean by Repeat serious offences is criminals with multiple offences should die. 3 counts of murder. 7 counts of GBH. Multiple sexual offences etc
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    It depends on the society and what works- I hate when people say "I would NEVER support this/ support this" and refuse to be pragmatic and understand that certain things they don't like may work within a specific context.

    In countries such as Norway, there's no death penalty and yet the system works absolutely fine, the reoffending rates are minuscule and rehabilitation seems to work a treat for most people. In contrast from my own experience and that of friends, harsh punishments including the death penalty are almost a mandatory requirement in countries such as Pakistan and India. Arguments like "the state shouldn't have the power to kill" are purely hypothetical and utterly futile in face of the fact that often the death penalty acts a deterrence in certain environments and is for the betterment of society.

    I for one fully support the rapists of this poor woman having their Achilles heels surgically removed and then being left to the mob. Potential rapists will think twice if they knew this would happen to them which at the end of the day should be one of the main priorities of the justice system: to prevent further similar crimes happening NOT have philosophical debates about the role of the state in society.

    EDIT: When the death penalty is implemented, it should only be done so when it is 100% sure as to who committed the crime and yes without going into too much detail, it is certainly possible to be certain of this. For example (hypothetically speaking), if the murderer shot his victim and was caught doing it on Live TV.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by thunder_chunky)

    I think it's nonsensical to believe that a few innocent people being put to death is acceptable in any way.
    Not that I support innocent people being put to death in anyway or form but what is your opinion of the Allied bombing of German cities during WW2 where resulted in the inevitable deaths of millions of innocent German citizens? I mean after all your argument appears to be that it is highly immoral to sacrifice even one human life for the greater good, am I right?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    It depends on the society and what works- I hate when people say "I would NEVER support this/ support this" and refuse to be pragmatic and understand that certain things they don't like may work within a specific context.

    In countries such as Norway, there's no death penalty and yet the system works absolutely fine, the reoffending rates are minuscule and rehabilitation seems to work a treat for most people. In contrast from my own experience and that of friends, harsh punishments including the death penalty are almost a mandatory requirement in countries such as Pakistan and India. Arguments like "the state shouldn't have the power to kill" are purely hypothetical and utterly futile in face of the fact that often the death penalty acts a deterrence in certain environments and is for the betterment of society.

    I for one fully support the rapists of this poor woman having their Achilles heels surgically removed and then being left to the mob. Potential rapists will think twice if they knew this would happen to them which at the end of the day should be one of the main priorities of the justice system: to prevent further similar crimes happening NOT have philosophical debates about the role of the state in society.

    EDIT: When the death penalty is implemented, it should only be done so when it is 100% sure as to who committed the crime and yes without going into too much detail, it is certainly possible to be certain of this. For example (hypothetically speaking), if the murderer shot his victim and was caught doing it on Live TV.
    deterrence based justice system is outdated, the justice system is not there to revenge, but to rehabilitate. I refuse to compromise on issues like this, because I know where humanity is heading, and death penalty is going out on a whimper. I see no need to compromise on a topic that I have an absolute decision on, a justice system that tortures or murders is acting out a moral hypocrisy, unless you are for a totalitarian government, I don't see how can you support a justice system that tortures and murders to continue holding the absolute authority over criminal issues, the moment the system start to torture or kill, is the moment it loses the moral high ground to prosecute people.
    I don't know why you would hate people who uphold their fundamental principles. Do you seriously like the kind of person who's "on the edge" on same sex marriage in 2007, and finished "evolution" on that topic,and come out in support of it in 2012. Is that the kind of person you'd rather like?
    I was against death penalty before, I am against it now, and I will still be against on my death bed grasping for my last breath. That's how firmly I hold to my view.
    As for being pragmatic, well India executed 1 person in the last 8 years, yet still has a far lower homicide rate than US, ops, there goes your theory.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Norway is the pinnacle of human society, the model society for all, the most developed nation on earth. Of course its direction would be and should be more discussed than the direction Pakistan is heading. On any societal issue discussion I tend to look at developed nation only, why would I look at backward societies in search of future directions?
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by xiyangliu)
    Innocent ?? Wtf are u talking abt ?!!? Are u crazy !? Those six men are not innocent !!!!!!
    Wtf are you talking about? Have they been proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt. In a court of law? No. So they are still innocent.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by noisy06)
    What makes you a conservative if all your social opinions are leftist though? Are you willing to at least sign the petition against gay marriage?
    I think you have to understand the difference between UK and US conservatives. The three big issues: Abortion, Gun Controls, Death Penalty...on all of them I would be the opposite to the GOP.

    I am in favour of gay marriage. Not for the state to say who can and can't get married. What I am not in favour of is forcing religious institutions to perform ceremonies. Why do you oppose gay marriage? It can't be on religious grounds of course, as to many, religion is a load of nonsense.

    Tags like 'conservative' are very broad. Jon Huntsman is a conservative as is Ron Paul. Perhaps I am socially liberal.

    What makes me conservative, well I'd favour further reductions in spending by the UK government, I'm in favour of Bush's foreign policy, I want a radical cut in Immigration, I (more recently) want to leave the EU, I want to see the welfare state in this country rolled back and I am very pro-America and pro-Israel.
    • TSR Support Team
    • Very Important Poster
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by xiyangliu)
    Innocent ?? Wtf are u talking abt ?!!? Are u crazy !? Those six men are not innocent !!!!!!
    They are innocent until proven otherwise in a court of law.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    Not that I support innocent people being put to death in anyway or form but what is your opinion of the Allied bombing of German cities during WW2 where resulted in the inevitable deaths of millions of innocent German citizens? I mean after all your argument appears to be that it is highly immoral to sacrifice even one human life for the greater good, am I right?
    I'm not talking about war and I'm certainly not talking about world war two. Its an irrelevant comparison. I'm talking about in the realms of the justice system.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by xiyangliu)
    Innocent ?? Wtf are u talking abt ?!!? Are u crazy !? Those six men are not innocent !!!!!!
    In the past innocent people have been sent to prison for crimes they did not actually commit. Before the death penalty was revoked in this country one or two were put to death.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    I'm not talking about war and I'm certainly not talking about world war two. Its an irrelevant comparison. I'm talking about in the realms of the justice system.
    In which case you would agree that there are instances where we can be 100% sure as to the identity of the criminal yes?

    Just put to it out there, I consider a state which refuses to kill a criminal for the greater good for society to have far weaker moral standing than one that does. As to what greater good constitutes, it depends on the society and circumstances at the time- you can rarely have absolutes with these kind of things.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    In which case you would agree that there are instances where we can be 100% sure as to the identity of the criminal yes?

    Just put to it out there, I consider a state which refuses to kill a criminal for the greater good for society to have far weaker moral standing than one that does. As to what greater good constitutes, it depends on the society and circumstances at the time- you can rarely have absolutes with these kind of things.
    Very Grindewald there.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sheldor)
    Very Grindewald there.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Even Dumbledore agreed in his younger years and the Peverell brothers definitely did. I' am not going to lie, wizard dominance over Muggles coupled with responsibility and benevolence is not such a bad idea
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Barden)
    Because capital punishment is simply the state saying, "you can't kill, but we can".
    Ok well by that logic, prison is the state saying: "You can't lock people up in cells, but we can."
    • TSR Support Team
    • Very Important Poster
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by thecookiemonster)
    Ok well by that logic, prison is the state saying: "You can't lock people up in cells, but we can."
    But these people are locked up for their own safety / safety of others. Therefore, the reasons are justified.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    Even Dumbledore agreed in his younger years and the Peverell brothers definitely did. I' am not going to lie, wizard dominance over Muggles coupled with responsibility and benevolence is not such a bad idea
    But as we know, powerful Most Ancient families like the malfoys wouldn't have been particularly benevolent. And with their power in the Wizengamont, the muggles definitely wouldn't get a good deal. Although saying that, the new generation Ministry may be better with people who fought in the Battle of Hogwarts now leading.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    What newspaper do you read/prefer?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.