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How can anyone seriously be against capital punishment? Watch

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    delhi has very high number of rapes and the demonstrations you see are not just about this shocking incident but the general level of violence directed against women in delhi.

    it would interesting if the demonstrators got their way and these people were executed for their appalling crimes -- it would be good to see what would happen to the rape rates.
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    (Original post by mcdaniel)
    No. Someone capable of gang-raping an innocent girl so violently she died from the attack will NEVER change.
    (Original post by the mezzil)
    You can not rehabilitate a murderer. If you can't get through to them in the first place that killing is wrong, then they are beyond hope. I'm sorry, but that is reality.
    What are you basing this on? You assumption that all murderers are evil?

    People kill for a whole manner of reasons. Even in the most extreme example, they will justify it to themselves, just as people justify capital punishment. Not everyone is lucky enough to be born in a situation who has the capability to be taught and learn that murder is wrong. Ranging from being taught that murder is fine in certain cases (as per capital punishment/some religious circles), to psychological issues with empathy and/or learning. Nobody sits down and goes, "you know what, I think ill just murder someone today" for no reason, there are events and circumstances which lead to that.

    (Original post by combbrah)
    This is the most pathetic bleeding heart liberal tripe I have ever had the displeasure of reading
    It might be pathetic bleeding heart liberal tripe, but its true. Were you born to the same parents, and brought up in the same environment as a violent murder, you too would become one. So placing blame for reasons other than rehabilitation are down-right arrogant.

    (Original post by combbrah)
    Yes, lets just blame everyone else except the fully grown and fully aware adult human being who is making the active decision to murder innocents. Literally lost for words, holy ****
    Not blaming other people, but the system itself. The purpose of the justice and criminal system is primarily to protect the public. If someone is released and then kills someone, there is something seriously wrong with the system.

    In most cases its a mixture between an arbitrary sentence with no aim to rehabilitate.

    No matter how you look at it, if this person was going to commit the crime again, why was he let out?
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    (Original post by Ronove)
    I'm sorry, but that is you bull****ting. Going to need some evidence that no-one convicted of murder has ever been successfully rehabilitated.
    here's one for how rehabilitation doesn't work - http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...-crime-figures

    and murderers - http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/fr...00/8321296.stm

    would look for some more but i'm going out.
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    (Original post by Ronove)
    How the hell does 1--1 represent 'doing a negative act to a negative person'? Serious clutching at straws here.
    A negative act (the - bit) to a negative person (the -1 bit)
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    (Original post by Sheldor)
    And raise the chances of killing innocent people?

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    Not if you reform the system, as I said.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    You can not rehabilitate a murderer. If you can't get through to them in the first place that killing is wrong, then they are beyond hope. I'm sorry, but that is reality.
    Absolute nonsense, not only is it simply innacurate as hundreds of thousands of rehabilitated individuals can attest to, it also sorts all instances of murder into one context and type which is completely wrong.

    There is a world of different between the act of murder where the person is in a blind rage brought on by a severe and sudden incident in there lives. Then afterwards faced with the consequences of there break, is instantly remourseful , repentant and accepting of the wrongfulness of there actions.

    And a pre-meditated , planned and cold-blooded murder.

    Even then there is a difference between a pre-meditated murder and a pre-meditated murder that is brought about because of pychological or social trauma, say the wife who has been beaten, abused, raped and degraded over ten years, searching for any desperate way out and due to her mental conditioning seeing the murder of her abuser husband as the only alternative, and resolving to do it that weekend.

    Then again what defines murder changes from perspective, I when in the Military took life, I did it in self-defence, and the defense of others.
    However I have no doubt that the family of my victims who I have killed view me and my ilk as evil oppressors and there loved ones as murderd freedom fighters.

    And I can honestly tell you, despite taking life before and often thinking that the taking of life I have performed could well have been Murder..and I could be a murderer...I don't feel any urge to go kill again.

    To state that no murder can be rehabilited, and that every murder is the same is just plain stupid.
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    Capital punishment will not reverse the crime commited. The death penalty is not justice, its revenge.

    Plus, if someone is put to death for a crime, they no longer have to suffer. If they are kept alive at least they can be made to suffer for their crime.
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    (Original post by combbrah)
    Lol. because all murderers really "rot away" in prison. Its not like they can laze around all day, socialise, hit the gym, watch tv, read, play sports, all whilst being fed 3 free meals a day and given free healthcare, and then eventually and in the majority of cases be released after a similar amount of time that someone caught for selling weed would be.
    That is a different argument all together. We seriously need to reform prisons because I saw an interview in which the prisoner said the worst thing was he had to watch EastEnders! I think they should rot in jail-not what happens though.
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    (Original post by W-Three)
    What are you basing this on? You assumption that all murderers are evil?

    People kill for a whole manner of reasons. Even in the most extreme example, they will justify it to themselves, just as people justify capital punishment. Not everyone is lucky enough to be born in a situation who has the capability to be taught and learn that murder is wrong. Ranging from being taught that murder is fine in certain cases (as per capital punishment/some religious circles), to psychological issues with empathy and/or learning. Nobody sits down and goes, "you know what, I think ill just murder someone today" for no reason, there are events and circumstances which lead to that.



    It might be pathetic bleeding heart liberal tripe, but its true. Were you born to the same parents, and brought up in the same environment as a violent murder, you too would become one. So placing blame for reasons other than rehabilitation are down-right arrogant.



    Not blaming other people, but the system itself. The purpose of the justice and criminal system is primarily to protect the public. If someone is released and then kills someone, there is something seriously wrong with the system.

    In most cases its a mixture between an arbitrary sentence with no aim to rehabilitate.

    No matter how you look at it, if this person was going to commit the crime again, why was he let out?
    Pretty good asumption, I mean they aren't exactly good people, nor are they "normal" or anything else. They are evil, if you don't think they are profoundly immoral and malevolent, then there is something wrong with you.

    And for the last bit, it doesn't matter what reason they killed for, I don't exactly care. What they did was immoral and wrong, argue the other way.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    Pretty good asumption, I mean they aren't exactly good people, nor are they "normal" or anything else. They are evil, if you don't think they are profoundly immoral and malevolent, then there is something wrong with you.

    And for the last bit, it doesn't matter what reason they killed for, I don't exactly care. What they did was immoral and wrong, argue the other way.
    It would be extremely ignorant of you to assume you wouldn't kill given the right circumstances.

    The assumption that all murders are evil, is simply wrong.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    Alright let me rephrase - doing a negative act to a negative person = a postive outcome e.g 1--1=2. That is what I meant. Anyway, lets get back on track. A person who murders should be punished by murder/ torture. I don't care if it harms their human rights, they lost those rights when they lost their humanity.
    And who will implement this torture? Are you not creating more murderers? What is to be the fate of these murderers?
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    What they did was immoral and wrong, argue the other way.
    Agreed, what they did was wrong.

    But people do wrong things all the time, I have no doubt you in your life time have done many wrong things on various scales.

    However, you cannot just Blanket all murders and all taking of life under one absolute statement, reality is not as black and white as your warped sense of morality.

    I have killed people, in self-defense, should I be given the death-penalty?
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    (Original post by Izzyeviel)
    Capital punishment is all about revenge, it's not a deterrent and won't stop crime. We need more emphasis on preventing crime then punishing it.


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    You took the words out of my mouth... I completely agree, its wrong and in my opinion, makes us as bad as the criminal. I think that life imprisonment is a much better deterrent and is not revengeful, it is justice.
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    don't really think its about evil, or revenge, or any of that stuff. its just about making sure the person can never reoffend.

    convicted murderers who are released from jail commit on average 3 more murders a year in britain. obviously that number would be zero if they were executed -- not sure what the reoffending rate is in general but they must also commit lots of other violent crimes.

    i am not saying i agree with capital punishment but clearly the present system which releases so many dangerous and violent people back out on the streets to reoffend is barbaric.

    people always go on about innocent people being executed and yes, it may happen. but what about the innocent people who become victims of already convicted violent criminals? these people are victims of the state as well.

    however you see it. the current system has to change as it is simply barbaric at the moment.
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    (Original post by 08rbut)
    You took the words out of my mouth... I completely agree, its wrong and in my opinion, makes us as bad as the criminal. I think that life imprisonment is a much better deterrent and is not revengeful, it is justice.
    but why is it about revenge? i have never seen it as revenge. maybe it is for the family involved, but who are you to say that is wrong for them?

    as for socity. it is just about making sure the person can never reoffend and sending out messages that these behaviours are simply not tolerated -- at the moment, the average murderer spends just 15 years in jail. thats hardly a deterrent message for such a serious crime.
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    (Original post by Templar49)
    Where are you getting this from? It's not true, hahaha. A petty criminal might get these luxuries, but you clearly have no idea how a prison of any real security actually works.
    LOL, because every murderer always serves in a supermax prison wearing a straightjacket many hours a day hannibal lecter style
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    (Original post by combbrah)
    After reading cases like the Delhi rape incident. "The victim was found with only 5% of her intestines left inside of her. A doctor at the hospital later stated that the "rod was inserted into her and it was pulled out with so much force that the act brought out her intestines along. That is probably the only thing that explains such severe damage to her intestines."

    Why are people who do things like this still considered human and treated as such. **** is wrong with the world
    There's only one reason that I'm not completely all for CP, and that's because I personally feel it's to easy a punishment. I've been following the news on the aformentioned rape case, and those savages deserve to suffer and endure the excruciating pain that the victim was put through. A prison sentence is certainly not enough. Have them castrated and tortured.
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    (Original post by W-Three)
    It would be extremely ignorant of you to assume you wouldn't kill given the right circumstances.

    The assumption that all murders are evil, is simply wrong.
    I would kill on the battlefield yes, but I would also expect for someone to kill me in return. Gang rape and kill a woman, no.
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    (Original post by W-Three)

    It might be pathetic bleeding heart liberal tripe, but its true. Were you born to the same parents, and brought up in the same environment as a violent murder, you too would become one. So placing blame for reasons other than rehabilitation are down-right arrogant.



    Not blaming other people, but the system itself. The purpose of the justice and criminal system is primarily to protect the public. If someone is released and then kills someone, there is something seriously wrong with the system.

    In most cases its a mixture between an arbitrary sentence with no aim to rehabilitate.

    No matter how you look at it, if this person was going to commit the crime again, why was he let out?
    There is absolutely zero justification for murdering an innocent person. The fact that you are trying to defend these scum is rather worrying. Stealing food to feed your starving family? Although a crime, it can be understood somewhat. Raping and murdering can never be justified, and being brought up in a "rough" environment does nothing to help the case. Plenty of people brought up in the most hellish conditions we could think of have not resorted to random murder. Your argument is a joke

    problem is, liberal scum think that rapists and murderers are the true victims and that the actual victims are simply an unfortunate side effect of society's original crime against the perpetrators

    what they aren't grasping is that these criminals have forfeited their rights as laid out by the social contract the second that they violated the rights of another person. as such, they no longer exist as people and are thus reclassified as dangerous animals that need to be put down for the good of everyone else. the aforementioned scum are too queasy about that though and would prefer that the rapist rapes their daughter in the future vs. being rightfully removed permanently from law-abiding citizens.
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    (Original post by josh_v)
    And who will implement this torture? Are you not creating more murderers? What is to be the fate of these murderers?
    I would, and no and torture if it were down to me.
 
 
 
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