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    (Original post by k_bourne)
    Very simple:
    Having sex with a child is wrong because the child cannot consent. Non-consensual sex is wrong. It's rape.
    Watching it abuses no children and does not inflict any real damage, hence I support it.
    (As my other posts explain, I would only support the viewing of child pornography if it does no harm)


    I really hope that was just a bad joke.


    I don't have a 10 year old sister. Moot point.
    All bad jokes now aside, you are entirely missing the point. If you read the original post (or even just the thread title) you would see that I am not supporting child abuse, but the viewing of it.


    'You have a different opinion to me, therefore you are mentally ill'
    Um, no.

    I agree that murder does more damage than assault, but they are "equally bad" in the sense that they are bad full stop. I cannot justify robbery. I cannot justify rape.
    No it's not a case of because you have a different opinion you are mentall ill dumbass. It's how you can justify the watching of a real murder, rape, torture and the exploitation of a vulnerable individual that makes me thing that either you lack some serious morals and/or will end up in jail or in aa secure psychiatric unit one day. If you seriously think there is nothing wrong with watching a child being raped or in pornographic images then yes I do have concerns for your mental wellbeing.
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    (Original post by whyumadtho)
    frankly dangerous
    Perhaps, but A) You cannot prove that; and B) I would still defend to the death his right to think that, or write about it.

    Rather ironically, the person who knows how to blow up an aeroplane would be very useful to an aeroplane company for building more secure planes. :P

    (Original post by Gridiron-Gangster)
    No it's not a case of because you have a different opinion you are mentall ill dumbass. It's how you can justify the watching of a real murder, rape, torture and the exploitation of a vulnerable individual that makes me thing that either you lack some serious morals and/or will end up in jail or in aa secure psychiatric unit one day. If you seriously think there is nothing wrong with watching a child being raped or in pornographic images then yes I do have concerns for your mental wellbeing.
    Just as you have the right to to be concerned for my mental wellbeing, I claim the right to be concerned about the mental wellbeing of someone who cannot think of an argument that does not involve the ad hominem.
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    (Original post by k_bourne)
    Perhaps, but A) You cannot prove that; and B) I would still defend to the death his right to think that, or write about it.

    Rather ironically, the person who knows how to blow up an aeroplane would be very useful to an aeroplane company for building more secure planes. :P


    Just as you have the right to to be concerned for my mental wellbeing, I claim the right to be concerned about the mental wellbeing of someone who cannot think of an argument that does not involve the ad hominem.
    Of course, because I'm the one who is advocating child pornography and the watching of murder and torture for entertainment? You're not proposing a debate you're just a troll seeking attention and/or someone trying to seek some sort of comfort/justification for their own morbid fantasies.
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    (Original post by Gridiron-Gangster)
    Of course, because I'm the one who is advocating child pornography and the watching of murder and torture for entertainment?
    Find me one post of mine that advocates child pornography.

    You're not proposing a debate you're just a troll seeking attention and/or someone trying to seek some sort of comfort/justification for their own morbid fantasies.
    I am neither a troll nor a paedophile; I'm merely participating in a sensible discussion regarding a taboo subject.
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    (Original post by Marco1)
    Because it's the most despicable crime to take advantage of someone young and vulnerable and abuse them. I'm surprised you come up with such a provocative question really. If you were seriously into discussing the topic like you suggest you are, then I think you would have posed a more intelligent question. You say its perfectly legal to watch murder and torture - really? Are you talking real or as part of some television drama? You are vague about what you mean to say.

    Firstly, if its actual murder and torture you mean, then I am not sure it's legal. Secondly if it is, do two wrongs make a right? Of course not. The world is full of the evil that humans do so why argue for child porn to be legal just because you think other evil acts are legal? What you say makes little sense at all to me.
    http://www.popcenter.org/problems/child_pornography/2
    Also if it were legal it would only serve to increase the related abhorrent problems of human trafficking and child sex slaves/ prostitution.
    http://www.marieclaire.com/world-rep...aped-sex-slave
    http://www.love146.org/europe
    Just as a side point, I don't disagree with your argument for the record, but sites like Bestgore.com are legitimate sites that show, as you may have guessed, gore and violence. Frequently clips on there show decapitations, disembowelments, car/other accidents, murder and scenes of rape, murder, etc.

    I use legitimate in a term loosely here, just because it hasn't been taken off the net doesn't strictly mean its legal, but supposedly the site gets some two million views or so a day; one of those must be someone associated or directly linked with an arm of the law that can disable such things, ergo I assume it must be legal.

    But again, I agree with your points made in answer to the OP's question, but just to clarify it must be legal in someway to watch the above mentioned because sites like Bestgore are, not only prevalent, but if the supposedly accurate number of views is anything to go by, apparently quite popular.
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    (Original post by k_bourne)
    It's perfectly legal to watch other horrific crimes like murder, torture, assault, and robbery. So why is it illegal to watch this equally bad crime?

    It's very difficult to find people who will talk seriously about this subject, because people have a bad habit of speaking upon their instant reactions - "How horrific, people who like that stuff are disgusting and should be locked up!" - so I am hoping that at least a few people will be able to make some rational arguments (on either side) here: what are your views?

    I myself am of the opinion that it probably should be legal to watch, but I am curious as to the reasonable rationale behind those who think differently (which is most people, I know!), and I'd also like to know the actual reason for the law being like this.
    It would be embarrassing to say the least, for the child to think peadophiles are getting off on watching them getting abused. I didn't think it was legal to watch murders and torture.
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    (Original post by k_bourne)
    Perhaps, but A) You cannot prove that; and B) I would still defend to the death his right to think that, or write about it.

    Rather ironically, the person who knows how to blow up an aeroplane would be very useful to an aeroplane company for building more secure planes. :P
    Where there is good reason to believe the person will act on their thoughts or fantasies, it is in the public interest to take preemptive action against this person. There is no reason to believe the person will uphold their social contract over their biological and emotional proclivities, so it is reasonable to treat them differently to obviate the infringement of this contract.

    Many of these were merely thoughts, fantasies or plans. Are you arguing they should have been allowed to do whatever they wanted until they have actually committed the act? And you don't consider this to be irresponsible? Intelligence agencies are redundant because they are intercepting the fantasies, writings and communications of people who have not executed the physical act?
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    if people keep buying it and watching it, people will keep making it to fulfil that demand. I can't imagine why you would want to watch it unless you're getting pleasure out of it, in which case you are endorsing its production.
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    (Original post by Bluffroom)
    It is illegal for minors to have sex, it's illegal for people under 18 to be in porn, it is paedophillia. You watch child porn I assume?
    That's a ridiculous assumption. It's like saying anyone who accepts gay porn should be legal must be homosexual. ¬_¬

    (Original post by nixonsjellybeans)
    Its not morally acceptable in our society.
    Society does not dictate morality, it is up to each individual person and their rational basis for deciding what is moral.
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    People sell child porn for money, so watching child porn rewards the people who make it and encourages them to make more. Being involved in child porn also scars the children for life, etc.
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    (Original post by Some random guy)
    Because people don't profit off murder, torture, assault and robbery videos. Child porn would be a profitable business if watching it was legal and this would encourage further child porn to be made.
    Would it though? Surely there cant be that many secret paedophiles.
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    (Original post by whyumadtho)
    Many of these were merely thoughts, fantasies or plans. Are you arguing they should have been allowed to do whatever they wanted until they have actually committed the act?
    I am arguing for the freedom to write down and plan terrorist attacks, but obviously I don't believe you should be allowed to build bombs, that's an entirely different matter. Christopher Hitchens explains the freedom to write down terrorist plots very well, though I can't find the speech in which he talked about it. It might be this one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyoOfRog1EM - but I can't quite remember.

    I consider freedom of expression and freedom of thought to be non-negotiable*, universal constants, but I am aware that most people - yourself included - do not agree, and many find it difficult to understand why I think this.

    *Not to mean I won't discuss it and consider others' opinions, but that I make no exceptions for it within my morality.
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    (Original post by k_bourne)
    It's perfectly legal to watch other horrific crimes like murder, torture, assault, and robbery.
    What source did you use to tell you that it's perfectly legal to watch these so called horrific crimes??

    IMO I would be pretty shocked if it IS legal, but I really CAN'T see that being true, have you never thought about stuff you mention being fake / acted? I would like to think a large majority of it is not real, but obviously a small amount of it is, and can be accessed through the internet.
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    (Original post by k_bourne)
    I am arguing for the freedom to write down and plan terrorist attacks, but obviously I don't believe you should be allowed to build bombs, that's an entirely different matter. Christopher Hitchens explains the freedom to write down terrorist plots very well, though I can't find the speech in which he talked about it. It might be this one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyoOfRog1EM - but I can't quite remember.

    I consider freedom of expression and freedom of thought to be non-negotiable*, universal constants, but I am aware that most people - yourself included - do not agree, and many find it difficult to understand why I think this.

    *Not to mean I won't discuss it and consider others' opinions, but that I make no exceptions for it within my morality.
    Why not? Nobody has been harmed: it's merely a fantasy about harming people until they have done so. Since you cannot prove that the thought and the potential to act out that thought (a person can rape a child, just like a functional bomb can kill people) will manifest as an act, why do you not support the creation of a right to construct and plant bombs?

    Edit: I've just reached the part where he questions who should be responsible for determining whether or not a thought would manifest as an act. I would argue a team of experts across relevant disciplines, an independent jury and a judge are adequate. Otherwise, we are indeed left at the reckless and ridiculous notion that intent and preemption should be abandoned: only when the person is killed, raped, blown up, etc. should the criminal be arrested. In what way is this productive? I find it odd that you claim to be a critical person, yet uncritically accept and promote unconditional ideology like freedom of speech.
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    (Original post by ± Dan ±)
    What source did you use to tell you that it's perfectly legal to watch these so called horrific crimes??

    IMO I would be pretty shocked if it IS legal, but I really CAN'T see that being true, have you never thought about stuff you mention being fake / acted? I would like to think a large majority of it is not real, but obviously a small amount of it is, and can be accessed through the internet.
    I shall use the 9/11 example again.

    I'm pretty sure that those terrorist attacks I saw, where thousands of people were murdered, wasn't fake. I might be wrong, but I went to New York before 9/11 and the World Trade Center was there; I went there afterwards and there wasn't much left.
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    (Original post by Maxisussex)
    I've hunted high n low but just gave up in the end.
    It was previously on the best gore website, before it was taken down. It's on really weird forums though, it's quite hard to find. Watching Taliban beheadings was freakish enough, let alone watching what the Canadian guy did urgh.
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    (Original post by k_bourne)
    I shall use the 9/11 example again.

    I'm pretty sure that those terrorist attacks I saw, where thousands of people were murdered, wasn't fake. I might be wrong, but I went to New York before 9/11 and the World Trade Center was there; I went there afterwards and there wasn't much left.
    Your right it definitely wasn't fake, but I am pretty sure if they knew a second plane was going to crash in to the twin towers then they would have not showed it happening.

    But sadly it happened, and the footage was out there, so was there really any point in censoring it??

    But in point of my OP, I still wouldn't say that is any reason to justify showing these crimes is legal.
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    (Original post by ± Dan ±)
    Your right it definitely wasn't fake, but I am pretty sure if they knew a second plane was going to crash in to the twin towers then they would have not showed it happening.

    But sadly it happened, and the footage was out there, so was there really any point in censoring it??

    But in point of my OP, I still wouldn't say that is any reason to justify showing these crimes is legal.
    If you are to use that argument, you must also say that because child pornography is out there, there is no point censoring it.
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    It's not illegal to watch it. It's illegal to be in posession of pornography containing minors
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    (Original post by k_bourne)
    If you are to use that argument, you must also say that because child pornography is out there, there is no point censoring it.
    Of course it should be censored, what about when the victim grows older? Say they accidentally stumbled upon the pictures / videos of them being sexually abused? It would probably create a ton of mental problems for that person.

    Whilst 9/11 was an awful event, the victims who died can rest in peace, and the footage can be used to remember the tragic event and for future generations to reflect upon... say a small kids father died due to the event, at least they would know what happened and they may be able to accept it and move on more easily.

    IMO they are two entirely different things, and have completely different consequences and affects on people, you can't really say they are similar ... they are the complete opposite in many different ways.
 
 
 
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