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    Something which seems very common in this country is the idea that the individual has a divine right to take something and abuse it for his own gain.

    If you look at most of the issues facing Britain today, they all come down to abuse of the system in some form. PFI, Welfare, Employment Rights, The Legal system, Financial system, Immigration etc.

    They are all potentially good, well functioning systems but have been abused so much that they no longer serve their purpose and cannot support themselves. At what point did we become so mindless and un-conscientious?

    What is it that creates this mindset? and how can we stop it?
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    because people can be selfish. because people don't look at the big picture, only at how something affects them. because they can.
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    Because that's their optimal response to the incentives we've created.
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    Because some people can be selfish and nothing more than a burden to society, yet don't see any wrong in doing so. That is just how some people are, but it can be influenced by improper upbringing, following the (bad) example of others, or just being indolent, dishonourable and feckless by nature.

    Nothing particularly new here though, it's been happening since the dawn of time, but it won't stop me being true to myself, working for what I have and being very proud of all I have accomplished any time soon.
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    People do what benefits them, not what benefits some arbitrary notion of society. Systems will always be abused for the individual gain, that's why communism fails.
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    (Original post by Bellissima)
    because people can be selfish. because people don't look at the big picture, only at how something affects them. because they can.
    (Original post by Donald Duck)
    Because that's their optimal response to the incentives we've created.
    but these can apply to every country and culture yet the vast majority of the (developed) world don't behave in such a vile manner.
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    (Original post by tory88)
    People do what benefits them, not what benefits some arbitrary notion of society. Systems will always be abused for the individual gain, that's why communism fails.
    but some countries have managed to successfully implement well functioning socialist systems which do not get abused in such a manner. For example, Scandinavia, Germany etc...
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    It's human nature to look out for ourselves.

    This is really the biggest drawback to democracy - people vote for who will give them what they want now, with no care about how it will affect future generations.

    We might experience this worse than some countries because we don't have a strong sense of patriotism in the UK.

    The 'something for nothing' outlook is also self-propagating. A couple given the chance to live off the state will have children who are raised in an environment where it is seen as normal to choose convenience over ambition.
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    (Original post by natureartpeace)
    but these can apply to every country and culture yet the vast majority of the (developed) world don't behave in such a vile manner.
    Yes they do, they just tend to have a different set of incentives (e.g. you'll only want to scrounge benefits if you can't find a good job, we complain about people choosing benefits over crap jobs).
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    Why does everyone always assume that something they've happened to notice in this country - no doubt because it's where they live... - is therefore unique to this country. EVERY country on the planet has a population with the exact same desire to "abuse the system" - it's merely logistics and differing circumstances that make them seem different.

    (Original post by natureartpeace)
    but some countries have managed to successfully implement well functioning socialist systems which do not get abused in such a manner. For example, Scandinavia, Germany etc...
    On what basis are you saying that they are not abused in those countries? Though one obvious answer (particularly with regards to Scandinavia) is that the more generous the "system" is, the less likely you are to abuse it to try and get more.
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    (Original post by natureartpeace)
    Something which seems very common in this country is the idea that the individual has a divine right to take something and abuse it for his own gain. If you look at most of the issues facing Britain today, they all come down to abuse of the system in some form. PFI, Welfare, Employment Rights, The Legal system, Financial system, Immigration etc.
    I don't quite understand the point you're asking.Are we talking about the public abusing these systems or the systems and their employees being corrupt or both?
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    (Original post by natureartpeace)
    but some countries have managed to successfully implement well functioning socialist systems which do not get abused in such a manner. For example, Scandinavia, Germany etc...
    They're still abused for individual gain, just not on a large enough scale to disrupt the system completely. By and large, people will act to benefit themselves over benefiting a group as a whole. There are exceptions in some scenarios, and indeed with some people, I cede. I don't have enough knowledge on the systems you mention, but I would imagine that the system is enforced through punishments that make taking an action to benefit the individual much less attractive. My counterexample would be in climate change negotiations - no-one wants to take action first because if others didn't follow it would disadvantage them, despite knowing that if everyone did make a change it would ultimately be mutually beneficial for all.
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    At the end of the day blame the system, its only natural to claim what your able to. This country also has a habit of suing, the NHS provides a free service and has to spend millions on this. Suing a free service should not be allowed. Employers have to pay hundreds of thousands on a claim even though the person may have only lost a few thousand


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    Selfishness, people have a 'me me me' attitude. Obviously it's a minority, but a minority large enough that it causes imbalances. Look at Germany, they have a policy on their underground metro systems of not having any ticket barriers at stations, as they rely on trusting the people to buy tickets. And funnily enough, it works.

    (Original post by radiopred)
    At the end of the day blame the system, its only natural to claim what your able to. This country also has a habit of suing, the NHS provides a free service and has to spend millions on this. Suing a free service should not be allowed. Employers have to pay hundreds of thousands on a claim even though the person may have only lost a few thousand


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    At least we're nowhere near American levels of suing.
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    (Original post by natureartpeace)
    Something which seems very common in this country is the idea that the individual has a divine right to take something and abuse it for his own gain.

    If you look at most of the issues facing Britain today, they all come down to abuse of the system in some form. PFI, Welfare, Employment Rights, The Legal system, Financial system, Immigration etc.

    They are all potentially good, well functioning systems but have been abused so much that they no longer serve their purpose and cannot support themselves. At what point did we become so mindless and un-conscientious?

    What is it that creates this mindset? and how can we stop it?
    They do it because they are idiots who only think about themselves.

    They don't think about how their actions will affect other people.

    I believe that there should be harsher consequences for abusing things like this.
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    Survival of the fittest


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    Watch from 4 minutes onwards. If you have the time, you should check out his books as well.
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    How can you expect individuals to behave properly when those systems that are mentioned are inherently abusive themselves for example a welfare system aimed at conning people out of their welfare or a legal system that brings injustice while charging you a ridiculous amount.
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    Because systems set up an enemy. People know what's right or wrong, and have the ability to act according to their consciences, but if someone else sets them rules by which they must abide they are likely to take opposition to those rules in some way. If everyone were allowed to be more governed by their own morals than law then there would be less abuse of perceived societal rules.
 
 
 
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