Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

why are vocational things taught at uni Watch

    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anony.mouse)
    No, I'm not saying that at all.

    I said that it's the vocational jobs where people are on the minimum wage or barely above it that are the problem.
    I'm sorry but your argument has no evidence to back it up. You're just making assumptions that most people who do 'vocational' degrees end up earning minimum wage, which is simply untrue unless you can show me statistics to prove it otherwise.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by thecookiemonster)
    I'm sorry but your argument has no evidence to back it up. You're just making assumptions that most people who do 'vocational' degrees end up earning minimum wage, which is simply untrue unless you can show me statistics to prove it otherwise.
    FFS, I didn't say that that applies to every vocational job. I used the example of people who work in care homes, of which I know a few and none of them are on much above the minimum wage. And said that it is these kinds of jobs where almost every post is on/ just above the minimum wage that are the problem. Some vocational jobs have good wages, but do they still need to go to uni first?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anony.mouse)
    FFS, I didn't say that that applies to every vocational job. I used the example of people who work in care homes, of which I know a few and none of them are on much above the minimum wage. And said that it is these kinds of jobs where almost every post is on/ just above the minimum wage that are the problem.
    So therefore because the few you know haven't done well does that mean that everyone who did their degree hasn't done well?

    And the second part of that post is just nonsense. Where are you getting this information from?
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Medicine is a vocational degree. WHAT THEN?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by thecookiemonster)
    So therefore because the few you know haven't done well does that mean that everyone who did their degree hasn't done well?

    And the second part of that post is just nonsense. Where are you getting this information from?
    The people that I know haven't done degrees, they have NVQs. They say that every post they look for is on/just above the minimum wage. And it doesn't take much to flick through a paper/job site to find the same is true almost everywhere, unless you find a really posh home or possibly a home in London.

    What second part? I explained how these kinds of jobs with degrees are a problem earlier.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RollerBall)
    Medicine is a vocational degree. WHAT THEN?
    Did I not make it clear enough in my OP that I'm talking about jobs that up until recently you only needed NVQs or apprenticeship for. :facepalm: the space for a title is only small.

    I bet you didn't even read my OP.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anony.mouse)
    The people that I know haven't done degrees, they have NVQs. They say that every post they look for is on/just above the minimum wage. And it doesn't take much to flick through a paper/job site to find the same is true almost everywhere, unless you find a really posh home or possibly a home in London.

    What second part? I explained how these kinds of jobs with degrees are a problem earlier.
    Sorry but what are you even talking about now? I thought your whole point was trying to prove that people who do vocational degrees have trouble finding jobs about the minimum wage?

    How are they a problem? You still haven't presented one bit of evidence apart from your experience with a couple of people...
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anony.mouse)
    Did I not make it clear enough in my OP that I'm talking about jobs that up until recently you only needed NVQs or apprenticeship for. :facepalm: the space for a title is only small.

    I bet you didn't even read my OP.
    I had a quick skim. I realised it would be a load of *******s so I didn't bother. Instead I wrote a asinine remark as that's all I thought it was worth.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by thecookiemonster)
    Sorry but what are you even talking about now? I thought your whole point was trying to prove that people who do vocational degrees have trouble finding jobs about the minimum wage?

    How are they a problem? You still haven't presented one bit of evidence apart from your experience with a couple of people...
    No. My whole point is, why do some of these jobs need uni degrees. The bit about the minimum wage is a part of it. As the government/ quangos etc are saying these jobs need people with degrees, but because they're poorly paid jobs, it's not wise for the government to have to give out the loans for them when hardly any of the loan will be paid back.

    The workers personally aren't the problem the jobs for them that are only on the minimum wage are. When they've had to go to uni to get them.

    The government gives the unis money for you to go to uni.

    You graduate and get a job, earning the minimum wage

    On this you earn roughly 13k a year currently.

    On this amount 1) you pay hardly any income tax and 2) you don't pay any of your student loan off

    Thus the government is getting hardly of their money back that they paid in to your education. After a few years you might start earning over 20k, but after 20years of graduating your debt is wiped for you. But the government has still given that money to the unis. So is still worse off.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anony.mouse)
    No. My whole point is, why do some of these jobs need uni degrees. The bit about the minimum wage is a part of it. As the government/ quangos etc are saying these jobs need people with degrees, but because they're poorly paid jobs, it's not wise for the government to have to give out the loans for them when hardly any of the loan will be paid back.

    The workers personally aren't the problem the jobs for them that are only on the minimum wage are. When they've had to go to uni to get them.
    What degree is there that only gives you jobs in minimum wage? :L
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    The problem is the amount of people going for these jobs. There would have been a time where I didn't need a degree to do what I want to do, but with the reduction of jobs and also the competition it has meant that I need to go to uni so that I stand a chance to get one. You gain a much greater understanding when you go to uni on aspects of what you want to do. I now know more about why I would do conservation techniques and their impacts rather than just knowing what I would do. For that I need to volunteering on top of my degree. I also wanted to go to uni to gain experience as it's a great thing to do.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by thecookiemonster)
    What degree is there that only gives you jobs in minimum wage? :L
    My boyfriends brother (and other people I know) work with the mentally ill/ old. They only needed NVQs, but people now need degrees to do their job, but the people that are now joining them aren't getting paid much more than the minimum wage anyway, so aren't paying off their student debt.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anony.mouse)
    or that such vocational jobs shouldn't need degrees :facepalm: (the whole point of this thread) NVQs have been good enough for decades, whats wrong with them now?
    who pays for the NVQs?

    up to level 3 its the government, then its the employers (who are substituted or run by the government) so with health care it goes back to the government :confused:

    but that's just coming from a vocationally trained health care profesional
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    Vocational qualfications are ones that are geared to towards training you for a specific job.

    Such as medicine and law. They're not always stuff like NVQ.

    The labelling of vocational and academic is bull. Some 'academic' subject you might consider crap and pointless and the same with vocational.
    • TSR Support Team
    • Very Important Poster
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    How many people do you know work in care homes have a degree in that subject? My mum has done various care roles over the last 20 years (including children, elderly, learning disability and now physical disability including end of life care) and only has NVQs.

    I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong / it's changed) there's a way of being a nurse without going to uni. You work your way up through the different levels.
    • TSR Support Team
    • PS Reviewer
    • Clearing and Applications Advisor
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fat-Love)
    Vocational qualfications are ones that are geared to towards training you for a specific job.

    Such as medicine and law. They're not always stuff like NVQ.

    The labelling of vocational and academic is bull. Some 'academic' subject you might consider crap and pointless and the same with vocational.
    This is very true. There is a lot of talk at the moment about some very traditional academic graduates struggling to find any jobs - never mind ones on minimum wage.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by rattusratus)
    who pays for the NVQs?

    up to level 3 its the government, then its the employers (who are substituted or run by the government) so with health care it goes back to the government :confused:

    but that's just coming from a vocationally trained health care profesional
    Thank you
    I was just about to make this point that most NVQs are Govt funded anyway and don't have to be paid back at all unlike a loan.

    As to the original point of this post; I honestly don't mind my tax money going to fund degrees, we need a wide range of people in society.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anony.mouse)
    My boyfriends brother (and other people I know) work with the mentally ill/ old. They only needed NVQs, but people now need degrees to do their job, but the people that are now joining them aren't getting paid much more than the minimum wage anyway, so aren't paying off their student debt.
    Ok, but you realise the government pays for the NVQs as well? Also what degree are people doing in order to work with the mentally ill/old?
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anony.mouse)
    I agree that there are now too many micky mouse degrees about.

    But I also think that there are also too many degrees out there for vocational jobs that shouldn't need a degree, they're not micky mouse degrees, but should only need apprenticeships/NVQs, like they have done in the past. There are many jobs that you could do until recently with NVQs and other such qualifications, that you now need to go to uni to do. It's just making more red tape and more debt.

    Who else agrees?

    I do think that they're worthwhile jobs and I respect anyone who works honestly for a living,
    for example my boyfriends brother who works with the mentally ill. He has something like nvq qualifications, but says that anyone who now trains to do the same thing as him has to go to uni. But do they really need a degree to do such jobs? he's just looking after them. If there is some medical issue then a nurse/doctor is called.

    Another point I should make is that people like my boyfriends brother work for just over the minimum wage. With the way student loans work, people like him will barely pay any of their loan off, so the government who ultimately give out this money is getting poorer (even if you icnlude the small amount of extra income tax the government would recieve) and the unis richer. Obviously this doesn't apply to every vocational job, but for some such as those who work in care homes, most of the jobs are on or slightly above the minimum wage.

    I do think that these people need training by the way. But why aren't NVQs and apprenticeships etc good enough anymore, they have been for several years now. That's the main issue here.
    you agree with yourself?
    • TSR Support Team
    • Very Important Poster
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Can someone please tell me which vocational degrees you can do at uni?
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    What newspaper do you read/prefer?
    Useful resources
    Uni match

    Applying to uni?

    Our tool will help you find the perfect course

    Articles:

    Debate and current affairs guidelinesDebate and current affairs wiki

    Quick link:

    Educational debate unanswered threads

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.