Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    I think the main reason for RVP's goals drying up isn't even RVP. With Vidic back SAF trusts our defence to be able to soak up pressure and therefore trusts our team to grind out the 1-0s and 2-0s. The freescoring 4-3 games of earlier in the season have gone and we're far more balanced as a side, not completely reliant on the attack to bail out the defence like they did for the first half of the season.

    That means that, as a team, we're more disciplined. Wingers have more defensive responsibilities, CMs don't leave as many gaps in front of the CBs, etc. And that means that our attacking players aren't finding themselves in as many positions to score/create chances which means we're scoring less goals. It's a team thing, focusing purely on RVP misses the big picture. Obviously his form has dropped a bit but to write him off (and i've seen it from people other than wums) based on what is primarily a tactical decision is pretty ridiculous.

    The change of emphasis was probably a strategy designed to see us towards and through the latter stages of the cup competitions, which are next to impossible to win without a solid defence. Funnily enough it's worked better in the league though...probably because with the fixture pile-ups SAF has played Vidic in the league even if it means him missing out on crucial cup games, and we defend so much better with him in the side.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Louis.)
    I think the main reason for RVP's goals drying up isn't even RVP. With Vidic back SAF trusts our defence to be able to soak up pressure and therefore trusts our team to grind out the 1-0s and 2-0s. The freescoring 4-3 games of earlier in the season have gone and we're far more balanced as a side, not completely reliant on the attack to bail out the defence like they did for the first half of the season.

    That means that, as a team, we're more disciplined. Wingers have more defensive responsibilities, CMs don't leave as many gaps in front of the CBs, etc. And that means that our attacking players aren't finding themselves in as many positions to score/create chances which means we're scoring less goals. It's a team thing, focusing purely on RVP misses the big picture. Obviously his form has dropped a bit but to write him off (and i've seen it from people other than wums) based on what is primarily a tactical decision is pretty ridiculous.

    The change of emphasis was probably a strategy designed to see us towards and through the latter stages of the cup competitions, which are next to impossible to win without a solid defence. Funnily enough it's worked better in the league though...probably because with the fixture pile-ups SAF has played Vidic in the league even if it means him missing out on crucial cup games, and we defend so much better with him in the side.
    Mostly agree with this, but he has missed some sitters so I don't think it can be blamed entirely on tactics.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    Mostly agree with this, but he has missed some sitters so I don't think it can be blamed entirely on tactics.
    Tbf I think he has missed chances all season, it's just when we had more attacking players around him he was able to create more chances for himself, and had more chances created for him.

    I just think the main reason is tactical, and that tactical shift has probably led to some confidence issues now, he's at his best when he tries outrageous things because he thinks he can pull anything off.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Imagine if we signed Thiago Alcântara. OMG.

    Carrick and him in the middle and Kagawa in front. Too good to be true man. Also as cover wanyama for DM role.

    Someone put it in a formation! Too good to imagine in my head.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    How talented is Alcantara meant to be? Never seen him play but atleast with the likes of Isco, Neymar etc etc I've seen them play enough to have some idea, on idea about him.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    For those saying put kag in the centre, would you really prefer that to welbeck and kag on the wings with Rooney and Van Persie through the centre? Our wingers have been utterly woeful and I'd rather put others there and still be able to play rooney.

    Hoping for some key signings in the summer.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by pinda.college)
    Did anyone else here Evra say ****ing Hell towards the end?
    Haha, yeah I heard it aswell. I'm surprised Tyldsley didn't offer an apology for it because it seemed quite clear but they don't need to tbh, swearing is part of the package for footballers.

    But meh, extremely disappointing not to have gone through, really wanted to win the FA Cup moreso with going out the CL. The way we played in the second half at OT, we played for 90 mins at SB. We were comfortable in the first half but lacked any real penetration. Both sides lacked that attacking verve but they scored a good goal at the start of the second half and that seemed to wake them up.

    No outstanding performances today by anybody, possibly Jones had a decent game back. Considering some of these guys didn't play on Saturday, expected alot more.

    RVP lack of goals already discussed but in regards to Kag, I think SAF is protecting him but IMO, abit too much. For me, after the hat-trick vs. Norwich was the ideal time to blood him abit more. He missed the RM match which was fair enough considering how discipline we were on the night but today was a good game for him to come in, especially with Mikel a little bit weak defensively and Ramires going forward from time to time would have given Kag abit more space to play with. It was one of those days when the selection didn't seem right. RVP should have started this game and possibly benched for Sunderland.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Tommyjw)
    How talented is Alcantara meant to be? Never seen him play but atleast with the likes of Isco, Neymar etc etc I've seen them play enough to have some idea, on idea about him.
    Alcatara is thought of extremely highly by us Barcelona fans. Everyone expects him to be the heir to Xavi although I personally think hes more Iniesta like. Very very good at dribbling in tight spaces and can make some great passes. Sometimes tries a little to complicated passes. Finishing needs to be worked on but maybe that's cause he doesn't get a string of games and such to work on it. But a very slick footballer indeed.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Wow. Do you lot realise that Carrick is 32, Scholes is 38 and Giggs is 39?!?!

    This is potentially really really bad next season if we don't buy a midfielder. Especially is carrick gets injured.
    ANderson is a complete waste, cleverly is not united quality, fletcher is not coming back fully.

    What more reasons not to buy 1-2 midfielders!

    Two options: Buy experienced midfeild players, gives us enough time for players like Powell, Deahli, Pearson and Tunnicliffe to grow and become experienced, by the time older ones retire, they are there to play.

    Or buy quality young players such as Gotze, Thiago etc with A high price. This is less risky option as they are quality players and are still young.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Louis.)
    I think the main reason for RVP's goals drying up isn't even RVP. With Vidic back SAF trusts our defence to be able to soak up pressure and therefore trusts our team to grind out the 1-0s and 2-0s. The freescoring 4-3 games of earlier in the season have gone and we're far more balanced as a side, not completely reliant on the attack to bail out the defence like they did for the first half of the season.

    That means that, as a team, we're more disciplined. Wingers have more defensive responsibilities, CMs don't leave as many gaps in front of the CBs, etc. And that means that our attacking players aren't finding themselves in as many positions to score/create chances which means we're scoring less goals. It's a team thing, focusing purely on RVP misses the big picture. Obviously his form has dropped a bit but to write him off (and i've seen it from people other than wums) based on what is primarily a tactical decision is pretty ridiculous.

    The change of emphasis was probably a strategy designed to see us towards and through the latter stages of the cup competitions, which are next to impossible to win without a solid defence. Funnily enough it's worked better in the league though...probably because with the fixture pile-ups SAF has played Vidic in the league even if it means him missing out on crucial cup games, and we defend so much better with him in the side.
    Yeah my brother admittedly is a person who wrote him off. He's been great this year and you don't drop off permenantly that easily bar an injury. I think he'll get back to form by the end of the season. It's clear that your defensive performances have improved and you haven't scored as much goals, the everton match e.g. which also brings me to another point, when van persie came on you were in much better goalscoring positions, hernandez had the header but bar that it was mainly half chances from free kicks before RVP came on so it's not like he's not in the key areas(unlike our marquee striker signing) so I think he'll come strong. People were saying this about rooney two seasons ago after the injury and the world cup.

    Anyway how would you view this season? You're probably gonna win a league title in one of the poorest seasons but the title's been won strongly so can't fault you guys. The CL was unlucky but you got mourinho's madrid(he did the same thing to us in 2010 when we had the 3rd strongest squad in europe that year) so it's not too disappointing. The FA cup defeat had to be disappointing though and SAF and the players wanted to win the trophy so it's wasn't down to a lack of motivation, just poor tactics.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MEPLUS-->YOU)
    Wow. Do you lot realise that Carrick is 32, Scholes is 38 and Giggs is 39?!?!

    This is potentially really really bad next season if we don't buy a midfielder. Especially is carrick gets injured.
    ANderson is a complete waste, cleverly is not united quality, fletcher is not coming back fully.

    What more reasons not to buy 1-2 midfielders!

    Two options: Buy experienced midfeild players, gives us enough time for players like Powell, Deahli, Pearson and Tunnicliffe to grow and become experienced, by the time older ones retire, they are there to play.

    Or buy quality young players such as Gotze, Thiago etc with A high price. This is less risky option as they are quality players and are still young.
    Tbh you could be looking at players around cleverleys and andersons age. Especially since anderson said he wanted to leave. Carrick's role means he'll be fine(look at pirlo, gerrard and lampard) as his game isn't based on the physical side but more on his mental side of the game. That being said a long term carrick replacement for cover, a Box to box player(you had a frenchman who could have potentially done the role) and some quality wingers will solve your problems. You're fine in attacking midfield, same goes for defence.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jam277)
    (you had a frenchman who could have potentially done the role)
    I don't think Pogba's ability was ever questioned, but he proved he simply isn't a United player. The squad has always been built around people rather than talents, and he wasn't the right person as he showed.

    I personally think we need a midfielder, and not an average/ might develop one either. If Carrick did his ACL or something in pre season, we quite simply would be ****ed. We need someone, 25-26ish, who is somewhat physical, offers some form of defensive cover, and crucially can pass and direct play if need be. I don't think that player is going to come cheap.

    We are getting a bit full and light at the same time in midfield. Anderson is injury prone, Giggs and Scholes are both older and only suited to certain situations, Fletcher is out until..., Cleverly is doing okay but I'm not going to say he's lost the injury prone tag just yet. That a lot of doubt over a lot of key players. Carrick is really the only one we know is up to scratch and will play 30 games at least.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MEPLUS-->YOU)
    cleverly is not united quality
    There is no denying Cleverleys place is perhaps the 'worst in the team' in terms of quality but i certainly feel he is United quality, he's proved himself this season both for us and for England and will only continue to get better. He is the perfect type of mobile, pass-and-move midfielder a lot of teams could do with and that includes us.

    Two options: Buy experienced midfeild players, gives us enough time for players like Powell, Deahli, Pearson and Tunnicliffe to grow and become experienced, by the time older ones retire, they are there to play.

    Or buy quality young players such as Gotze, Thiago etc with A high price. This is less risky option as they are quality players and are still young.
    I can even see ways we don't buy anyone tbh. Fletcher in SAFs eyes would be 'like a new signing' and Anderson would be given another year to have a couple of great games and be fat or injured for the rest and we'll use Jones in CM to replace any times Scholes would play there because he will retire

    This summer we will likely get rid of two CM's (which isn't as bad as it sounds given how little Scholes, fletcher and kinda Anderson has played anyway), and but one. I'd like to buy two but i think two new midfielders would halt any youth level development for a long time and can't see SAF doing that. If we bought two 24 year olds for example, them along with Carrick for a few years and Cleverley isn't going to leave much room for anyone else.

    Wanyama, Strootman, Vidal, Gundogan, Modric, Alcantra, Pogba (lol) would all suffice!

    Powell isn't as close to regular first team as people think and the closest ones at youth levels to being even close to being able to slot into first team in few years without a few loans is Pearson Deahli and Januzaj (the latter two aren't even proper mids anyway) so i wouldn't worry too much about them just yet.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Tommyjw)
    There is no denying Cleverleys place is perhaps the 'worst in the team' in terms of quality but i certainly feel he is United quality, he's proved himself this season both for us and for England and will only continue to get better. He is the perfect type of mobile, pass-and-move midfielder a lot of teams could do with and that includes us.
    Yeah agree here. Cleverley is a good player, not exceptional but he'll be fine. I don't think you'll ever do that english barcelona thing you did in the 90s for a while though but a young signing with potential to me will do you fine I think.

    I can even see ways we don't buy anyone tbh. Fletcher in SAFs eyes would be 'like a new signing'
    Wrong manager. You're mistaking him for monsieur wenger.

    (Original post by doggyfizzel)
    I don't think Pogba's ability was ever questioned, but he proved he simply isn't a United player. The squad has always been built around people rather than talents, and he wasn't the right person as he showed.

    I personally think we need a midfielder, and not an average/ might develop one either. If Carrick did his ACL or something in pre season, we quite simply would be ****ed. We need someone, 25-26ish, who is somewhat physical, offers some form of defensive cover, and crucially can pass and direct play if need be. I don't think that player is going to come cheap.

    We are getting a bit full and light at the same time in midfield. Anderson is injury prone, Giggs and Scholes are both older and only suited to certain situations, Fletcher is out until..., Cleverly is doing okay but I'm not going to say he's lost the injury prone tag just yet. That a lot of doubt over a lot of key players. Carrick is really the only one we know is up to scratch and will play 30 games at least.
    Makes sense, probably why SAF is kinda weird in the transfer market at times and doesn't fill gaps that need to be filled. I couldn't see him with a team like real madrids or bayern munich's.

    Yeah I get what you mean, however surely a young player with potential(not a tunniclife/powell) but a young guy playing games for his club in a good league and doing well, like verratti at PSG would be fine, if carrick does his ACL then the young guy fills in. Heck pogba done it at juve, cech did it for us. If they're good enough they're old enough I think.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Tommyjw)
    There is no denying Cleverleys place is perhaps the 'worst in the team' in terms of quality but i certainly feel he is United quality, he's proved himself this season both for us and for England and will only continue to get better. He is the perfect type of mobile, pass-and-move midfielder a lot of teams could do with and that includes us.



    I can even see ways we don't buy anyone tbh. Fletcher in SAFs eyes would be 'like a new signing' and Anderson would be given another year to have a couple of great games and be fat or injured for the rest and we'll use Jones in CM to replace any times Scholes would play there because he will retire

    This summer we will likely get rid of two CM's (which isn't as bad as it sounds given how little Scholes, fletcher and kinda Anderson has played anyway), and but one. I'd like to buy two but i think two new midfielders would halt any youth level development for a long time and can't see SAF doing that. If we bought two 24 year olds for example, them along with Carrick for a few years and Cleverley isn't going to leave much room for anyone else.

    Wanyama, Strootman, Vidal, Gundogan, Modric, Alcantra, Pogba (lol) would all suffice!

    Powell isn't as close to regular first team as people think and the closest ones at youth levels to being even close to being able to slot into first team in few years without a few loans is Pearson Deahli and Januzaj (the latter two aren't even proper mids anyway) so i wouldn't worry too much about them just yet.

    I think Sir Alex should go all out next season in playing younger players. He has showed how effective it could be in the 90's with giggs, scholes, beckham etc.
    I think it is a great opportunity as we still have giggs, ferdinand, vidic, scholes as senior players in order to guide the younger players, whilst slowly fading away from regular first team football. I think we are in better postition for younger players to develop than in 90s as the younger players in 90s has none to mentor them in their positions by older and senior players.

    I also think Sir Alex should allow younger players to come to team because he wants to build a quality young team for the next manager(hopefully Solskjær and giggs as manager and assistant manager). Young can see it happening now with, Da silva brothers, smalling, welbeck, jones, hernandez, powell, zaha etc. I think if he started them next season from the get go (including pre season) they will only get better, he needs to take that chance. He needs to let go of that rope of holding him to play ferdinand, scholes, giggs, vidic even if they were great servents to club, the club needs to move on. I know it's all about the transition of old to young, but that is taking way too long now as sir Alex feels this urge to keep playing giggs, scholes etc. No wonder why Pogba left and I don't blame him. He even said that when he heard scholes had come back from retirement, that he had no place in the team, as he knew Sir Alex would play scholes over him. I think Pogba situation is going to be one of many regrets for Sir alex if he doesnt play younger players. You could see pogba when he played for utd first team that he had the talent, but he just needed game time, but still manager chose older and more experienced players ahead. Even if he uses him and he makes a mistake-that will only do him good! I mean just look at last season when Utd went out of champions league because he used younger players, you may say that is proof that you not should use young players-but now you could see its positive effect this season, refeal has got better and learnt from his mistakes, smalling got better, de gea got better, jones also etc. I would rather loose a cup from inexperience one year and seek the rewards for the next few years with titles and cups .Just play them already. I know that a club like utd are involved in major competitions and there is alot of pressure and that mistakes can cost us titles and cups, but just take that chance-especially if you put trust and faith in to a young team.

    I would like to see two new Midfield signings with the back four being rafeal, smalling, jones and evra. And instead of using smalling and jones as cover for ferdinand and vidic. Reverse this concept. PLay jones and smalling regularly and make ferdinand and Vidic as back up.

    Also do you guys not think we need a left winger? I am suprised that there is non. so many times sir alex used cleverley, kagawa, welbeck. Incredible. Young is not quality enough, he is middle of league type of player.

    Leads me to my next point,What is wrong with our wingers? I think we should do sessions just for our wingers, its crazy, for one whole season and non has been up to united quality level.

    I am really surprised we got this far without our wingers and a non midfield except from carrick. If we fix up out wings and midfield this summer-the treble is more realistic.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    I dream of Solskjær and giggs becoming Manager and assistant Manager. Better than phelan!

    Solskjær is a big fan of playing younger players and find it funny that he plays Football manager.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MEPLUS-->YOU)
    I think Sir Alex should go all out next season in playing younger players. He has showed how effective it could be in the 90's with giggs, scholes, beckham etc.
    Tbh we can't compare what we did then, those group of players very rarely come around, like, never even happens for most clubs type rare.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Tommyjw)
    Tbh we can't compare what we did then, those group of players very rarely come around, like, never even happens for most clubs type rare.
    This, that generation of players were sensation and to have Ronaldo/Rooney come to the club shortly afterwards was amazing, now RVP is here. Needless to say that we've been lucky to always attract the big names to our club.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    We were lucky in the 90s that we had a larger group of outstanding players, however, this is very rare. We can't just expect it to happen again. There are a few case like Ajax Academy in 90s, Werder Bremen in 00's and more recently Barcelona, however even then this was over a few years.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    PSG are still talking about how they want Rooney, would you accept 45+mil for him, I personally don't know if Rooney is worth his wages for another 5 years considering the way he looks after his body, and when you look at replacements like Falcao with a 47mil release clause or a young Bale or a possible return of Ronaldo you would have to say it could be a beneficial move, with players such as Kagawa and Welbeck taking up his position it could still keep our attack just as strong/stronger.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Did TEF Bronze Award affect your UCAS choices?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.