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    Next season, at the emirates, 2-0 to United, Fabregas and RvP on the scoresheet.

    That would go down well.
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    (Original post by TH3-FL45H)
    Yeah it would
    I don't know why football fans do it to themselves.

    Just automatically assume they're all pricks and you don't get let down, that's what I've been doing since Yorke left. Don't delude yourself that into think they're loyal. You'll be disappointed.
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    (Original post by Tommyjw)
    Next season, at the emirates, 2-0 to United, Fabregas and RvP on the scoresheet.

    That would go down well.
    Cesc and RVP are very different people in character. Cesc would never even contemplate a move to another English club, even if you did flash 250k a week in front of his face, whereas RVP would have no absolutely issues signing for City tomorrow if it suited him.

    Anyway as has been discussed, its almost impossible for Cesc to ever play for another team other than Arsenal because of the 50% sell on clause/first refusal agreement.
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    (Original post by Zürich)
    Cesc and RVP are very different people in character. Cesc would never even contemplate a move to another English club, even if you did flash 250k a week in front of his face, whereas RVP would have no absolutely issues signing for City tomorrow if it suited him.
    This is funny because Arsenal fans used to always mention that quote van Persie made about winning trophies with Arsenal otherwise it wouldn't feel like his trophy. You guys were adamant he'd never leave for another English club. It's hilarious people still think like this in this day and age after players like Campbell and Figo, I just think when will people ever learn to stop putting their trust in footballers?

    Cesc wouldn't hesitate to join Man. United if they offered enough money and he was surplus to requirements at Barca. Don't kid yourself. Same goes for Wilshere. He'll end up leaving you if the drought continues, regardless of what he says or how many times he kisses his badge.
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    true, players only stay loyal if your club is matching their ambitions, if they aren't, they put their career ahead of loyalty and move on...

    United have kept our key players down the years because we actually give players the platform to perform on the highest level and win the silverware they want...
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    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    This is funny because Arsenal fans used to always mention that quote van Persie made about winning trophies with Arsenal otherwise it wouldn't feel like his trophy. You guys were adamant he'd never leave for another English club. It's hilarious people still think like this in this day and age after players like Campbell and Figo, I just think when will people ever learn to stop putting their trust in footballers?

    Cesc wouldn't hesitate to join Man. United if they offered enough money and he was surplus to requirements at Barca. Don't kid yourself. Same goes for Wilshere. He'll end up leaving you if the drought continues, regardless of what he says or how many times he kisses his badge.

    Fabregas was one of the best players on Earth every single year from 2007-2011 and could have gone anywhere but stayed before eventually going home to Barcelona. No club would have touched RVP until 2011 but as soon as he had a fit season he immediately forced his way out. Similar to Thierry Henry who stayed with Arsenal for many years when we were miles off the title with Barca/Real knocking on the door. The difference is class and respect. Tbh, RVP was always a bit of a scumbag but Arsenal fans overlooked that obviously. But I was amazed that RVP went to Utd because after so many years I genuinely believed hed developed some kind of heart but I guess not.

    Even today, the Sol Campbells and RVPs of this world are very rare as it takes a certain kind of rat to do something like that. I dont think Fabregas is. But its not even up for discussion, no club could other than Arsenal can now afford Fabregas.

    (Original post by SciFiRory)
    true, players only stay loyal if your club is matching their ambitions, if they aren't, they put their career ahead of loyalty and move on...

    United have kept our key players down the years because we actually give players the platform to perform on the highest level and win the silverware they want...
    Not denying that but players can leave with a handshake and with respect without leaving through the backdoor to a hated rival?
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    (Original post by SciFiRory)
    true, players only stay loyal if your club is matching their ambitions, if they aren't, they put their career ahead of loyalty and move on...

    United have kept our key players down the years because we actually give players the platform to perform on the highest level and win the silverware they want...
    Exactly and even that isn't enough sometimes as is evident with Rooney.

    The likes of Giggs, Neville and Scholes are the last of a dying breed. It's a completely different footballer that plays now compared to the era those three grew up in.
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    (Original post by Zürich)
    Fabregas was one of the best players on Earth every single year from 2007-2011 and could have gone anywhere but stayed before eventually going home to Barcelona.
    That doesn't prove he was loyal at all and he was only 23 when he left. Could easily have given a few more years of service.

    No club would have touched RVP until 2011 but as soon as he had a fit season he immediately forced his way out.
    He was 29 and approaching the end of his contract. He'd been there for 8 years and won a single FA Cup. He'd given you enough service. Ferguson had said a few times how much of an admirer he was of van Persie so the line about other clubs wouldn't have touched him is ridiculous.

    Similar to Thierry Henry who stayed with Arsenal for many years when we were miles off the title
    You mean three years. And the season before he left you got to a European Cup final. Hardly loyal, you were just the best fit at the time.

    The difference is class and respect. Tbh, RVP was always a bit of a scumbag but Arsenal fans overlooked that obviously. But I was amazed that RVP went to Utd because after so many years I genuinely believed hed developed some kind of heart but I guess not.
    You are sounding like someone who's been dumped by their girlfriend now. Just ignore the fact your fans abused him at two games this season and yet he still refused to celebrate. Has been full of praise for your club. I think he has a genuine affinity to Arsenal, you just don't realise footballers see the game as a job. They aren't the same as us. Why people can't get their heads around this I have no idea.
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    (Original post by Wilfred Little)

    Cesc wouldn't hesitate to join Man. United if they offered enough money and he was surplus to requirements at Barca. Don't kid yourself. Same goes for Wilshere. He'll end up leaving you if the drought continues, regardless of what he says or how many times he kisses his badge.
    Such a moot point because it's extremely unlikely he'd be surplus to requirements at Barca given how Xavi will be retiring soon and with the amount of games they play in a season he will always get a decent amount of game time. He's said plenty of times that the only two teams he'd play for are Arsenal and Barcelona so there is pretty much no chance of him joining United. You shouldn't be comparing Cesc to Figo/Campbell/RVP, that's just clutching on straws. He's much more similar in his mindset to Henry, who also would never play for another English team apart from Arsenal. And let's not forget RVP has always been a bit of ****, ****** a woman, serious attitude problems early in his career, acting like a **** in the Newcastle match in his last year at Arsenal.

    Wilshere point is valid but the trophy drought won't last long, we'll win a trophy in the next year or two. Quite confident Wilshere will finish his career at Arsenal.
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    (Original post by Zürich)
    Not denying that but players can leave with a handshake and with respect without leaving through the backdoor to a hated rival?
    depends, if those rivals are your best chance of winning the trophies you want and stuff, why not?

    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    Exactly and even that isn't enough sometimes as is evident with Rooney.

    The likes of Giggs, Neville and Scholes are the last of a dying breed. It's a completely different footballer that plays now compared to the era those three grew up in.
    Rooney I think is more just a case of him having idiotic agents and people advising him (see 2011), plus he doesn't wanna play out of position, that and I guess with him having been here for a while now he might want a new challenge or something, I dunno I would put him wanting to leave down to the stature of the club or that he doesn't think he can get success here.
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    (Original post by TheInvincibles14)
    Such a moot point because it's extremely unlikely he'd be surplus to requirements at Barca given how Xavi will be retiring soon
    He's surplus to requirements NOW, hence why he's been forced to play as a striker God knows how many times. Barca have Thiago and Busquets as back up too. Xavi has only just turned 33 also, he'll be around for another 2-3 years at least.

    He's said plenty of times that the only two teams he'd play for are Arsenal and Barcelona so there is pretty much no chance of him joining United.
    You think because he said it, that it means something lol? Ronaldo said on TV in front of millions two weeks before he left and the deal had already been agreed, that he was staying at Man. United. That line Ferguson had about checking under the sauce to make sure it's pasta applies to footballers.

    You shouldn't be comparing Cesc to Figo/Campbell/RVP, that's just clutching on straws. He's much more similar in his mindset to Henry, who also would never play for another English team apart from Arsenal.
    That's just a hypothesis and we have no way of proving it to be true or untrue. The fact is Arsenal were successful when Henry was there. Had they not have been, who knows?

    The point of mentioning Figo and Campbell is to prove players will do the unthinkable if they feel like it.

    Wilshere point is valid but the trophy drought won't last long, we'll win a trophy in the next year or two.
    I agree with this to be fair. The drought cannot go on, not only is it not acceptable it's also unthinkable given your resources. You'll win something soon I'm sure.
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    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    That doesn't prove he was loyal at all and he was only 23 when he left. Could easily have given a few more years of service.

    He was 29 and approaching the end of his contract. He'd been there for 8 years and won a single FA Cup. He'd given you enough service. Ferguson had said a few times how much of an admirer he was of van Persie so the line about other clubs wouldn't have touched him is ridiculous.

    You mean three years. And the season before he left you got to a European Cup final. Hardly loyal, you were just the best fit at the time.

    You are sounding like someone who's been dumped by their girlfriend now. Just ignore the fact your fans abused him at two games this season and yet he still refused to celebrate. Has been full of praise for your club. I think he has a genuine affinity to Arsenal, you just don't realise footballers see the game as a job. They aren't the same as us. Why people can't get their heads around this I have no idea.
    Well Fabregas certainly had better options than Arsenal and always insisted he would only ever play for Barcelona if he left.

    You think any club would have taken RVP on 80k a week in 2006-2010 when he averaged about 18 full matches a season? This is even ignoring the fact that RVP was an absolute headcase at Feyenoord and they had to ship him for 2.5m to Arsenal, the only club interested. Some loyal service that is.

    Henry owed Arsenal very little compared with RVP. He had no injury issues, was already a big name when he arrived and had been consistent throughout his time. He signed a contract after the 2006 final to play in a team with the likes of Almunia even though Barca/Real were in for him strongly. That is respect from a man who cares about a club from the heart.

    Of course footballers think differently to the fans and RVP was offered 250k to change jobs. But the concept of loyalty/respect still exists and football isnt a normal job with millions of people emotionally involved. I actually respect Adebayor/Nasri much more than RVP as they never even tried to pretend that they didnt care about Arsenal. RVP was a complete fraud and looking at his personal history, we shouldnt have been surprised.

    Dont make me laugh about RVP not celebrating. He did that to say to the world ''look at how humble and respectful I am!!!!! I am such a wonderful person''. Henry came back to Arsenal and did celebrate because he has nothing to be ashamed about and didnt need any spin.
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    (Original post by Zürich)
    You think any club would have taken RVP on 80k a week in 2006-2010 when he averaged about 18 full matches a season?
    Double it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Per...eer_statistics and yeah of course, 2009/10? City would, Chelsea probably would have too.

    This is even ignoring the fact that RVP was an absolute headcase at Feyenoord and they had to ship him for 2.5m to Arsenal, the only club interested. Some loyal service that is.
    If Feyenoord chose to sell him, how does that say anything about van Persie's loyalty :confused:

    Henry owed Arsenal very little compared with RVP. He had no injury issues, was already a big name when he arrived
    No he wasn't.

    and had been consistent throughout his time. He signed a contract after the 2006 final to play in a team with the likes of Almunia even though Barca/Real were in for him strongly. That is respect from a man who cares about a club from the heart.
    No it's Arsenal having a word and saying "you can leave if we win nothing this season as long as you sign a contract so we get more money for you" more than likely.

    Of course footballers think differently to the fans and RVP was offered 250k to change jobs. But the concept of loyalty/respect still exists and football isnt a normal job with millions of people emotionally involved. I actually respect Adebayor/Nasri much more than RVP as they never even tried to pretend that they didnt care about Arsenal. RVP was a complete fraud and looking at his personal history, we shouldnt have been surprised.
    The crux of this whole discussion is, you dislike van Persie because he left you for a team you hate and are jealous of, a team who's fans don't even think you're relevant and you're butthurt over it. Because you're butthurt you look for anything to support your "van Persie is a prick, this player is loyal" argument.

    Dont make me laugh about RVP not celebrating. He did that to say to the world ''look at how humble and respectful I am!!!!! I am such a wonderful person''. Henry came back to Arsenal and did celebrate because he has nothing to be ashamed about and didnt need any spin.
    If van Persie was such a prick he'd have wound you lot up after the abuse you gave him like Adebayor did.

    Also when did Henry go back? Are you talking about the pre-season friendly ?
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    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    He's surplus to requirements NOW, hence why he's been forced to play as a striker God knows how many times. Barca have Thiago and Busquets as back up too. Xavi has only just turned 33 also, he'll be around for another 2-3 years at least.

    You think because he said it, that it means something lol? Ronaldo said on TV in front of millions two weeks before he left and the deal had already been agreed, that he was staying at Man. United. That line Ferguson had about checking under the sauce to make sure it's pasta applies to footballers.

    That's just a hypothesis and we have no way of proving it to be true or untrue. The fact is Arsenal were successful when Henry was there. Had they not have been, who knows?

    The point of mentioning Figo and Campbell is to prove players will do the unthinkable if they feel like it.

    I agree with this to be fair. The drought cannot go on, not only is it not acceptable it's also unthinkable given your resources. You'll win something soon I'm sure.
    Him playing as a striker doesn't mean he's surplus to requirements, they think he is most effective there when Messi is not playing. The mistake Barca are making is thinking Cesc is a good false 9, he is not, and is best when deployed as the creative hub of the side. But the problem is that he doesn't have the discipline to play the Xavi role which is why he has been used further up the field. By the way he played 47 games this season and 48 the season before that so I'm not sure how exactly he's surplus to requirements.

    If you really want to bring up Ronaldo, do they think he would play for Chelsea or Man City? Once again extremely unlikely because he respects United and the fans and knows that it would not be the right thing to do. I agree that most footballers do not have loyalty but your trying to present them all as mercenaries who do not have a personal attachment to their club, which Cesc clearly has to Arsenal. A lot depends on the mentality and personality of the player as well you know, like Gotze did not think twice about ditching Dortmund for Bayern even though they are competitive.
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    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    Double it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Per...eer_statistics and yeah of course, 2009/10? City would, Chelsea probably would have too.

    If Feyenoord chose to sell him, how does that say anything about van Persie's loyalty :confused:

    No he wasn't.

    No it's Arsenal having a word and saying "you can leave if we win nothing this season as long as you sign a contract so we get more money for you" more than likely.

    The crux of this whole discussion is, you dislike van Persie because he left you for a team you hate and are jealous of, a team who's fans don't even think you're relevant and you're butthurt over it. Because you're butthurt you look for anything to support your "van Persie is a prick, this player is loyal" argument.

    If van Persie was such a prick he'd have wound you lot up after the abuse you gave him like Adebayor did.

    Also when did Henry go back? Are you talking about the pre-season friendly ?
    Many of the games he 'played' were 20 minute cameos so as not to risk aggravating his injury. His persistent injury problems are not a myth, he averaged less than 2000 minutes a season. Who would pay 80k for that?

    Dutch football is not comparable. Footballers invariably move on to England. What it does show was that Feyenoord could only get 2.25m for RVP. What a hot prospect he was!

    Bottom line with Henry was that he choose to stay, for less money and with certainly less prospect of silverware. Saw an interview with Henry y'day where you can tell he's still in love with Arsenal.

    RVP is a complicated prick. A 2 second pathetic gesture means nothing in the grand scheme of things. How much did he respect Arsenal when he issued a come and get me to Fergie last August to weaken our bargaining position? And all the Arsenal stuff aside, RVP's personal life doesnt suggest a man with a lot of class.

    yeah pre season friendly. Henry/Fabregas could play us in the CL final and celebrate like the enegizer bunny, the fans wouldnt even blink because respect is more than a 2 second gesture.
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    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    Cesc wouldn't hesitate to join Man. United if they offered enough money and he was surplus to requirements at Barca. Don't kid yourself. Same goes for Wilshere. He'll end up leaving you if the drought continues, regardless of what he says or how many times he kisses his badge.
    In all fairness Wilshere is actually a born and bred Arsenal fan, unlike any of the others. As long as they're in the Champions League he isn't going anywhere.
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    (Original post by Zürich)
    Many of the games he 'played' were 20 minute cameos so as not to risk aggravating his injury. His persistent injury problems are not a myth, he averaged less than 2000 minutes a season. Who would pay 80k for that?
    City.

    Dutch football is not comparable. Footballers invariably move on to England. What it does show was that Feyenoord could only get 2.25m for RVP. What a hot prospect he was!
    22 in 78 games isn't exactly groundbreaking at Feyenoord. £2.25m is/was a fair price.

    Bottom line with Henry was that he choose to stay, for less money and with certainly less prospect of silverware. Saw an interview with Henry y'day where you can tell he's still in love with Arsenal.
    You're not getting it are you?

    RVP is a complicated prick. A 2 second pathetic gesture means nothing in the grand scheme of things. How much did he respect Arsenal when he issued a come and get me to Fergie last August to weaken our bargaining position? And all the Arsenal stuff aside, RVP's personal life doesnt suggest a man with a lot of class.
    Why are you bringing the fact he cheated on his girlfriend up for? This isn't Heat magazine.

    If he says nothing, he's a prick because he should clear the speculation up. He says something and he's still a prick. OK :confused:

    yeah pre season friendly. Henry/Fabregas could play us in the CL final and celebrate like the enegizer bunny, the fans wouldnt even blink because respect is more than a 2 second gesture.
    You'd be raging if they did that, I can't be bothered to keep countering hypothetical arguments.

    (Original post by TheInvincibles14)
    Him playing as a striker doesn't mean he's surplus to requirements, they think he is most effective there when Messi is not playing. The mistake Barca are making is thinking Cesc is a good false 9, he is not, and is best when deployed as the creative hub of the side.
    Simple question: If Cesc was really that important to them, would he be playing out of position? No. Same applies to Mascherano too. They're played where they're played because they are surplus to the requirements of Barca's midfield. They ain't getting a look in.

    Cesc played as a striker, or part of a front three, for the majority of last season (when Messi played 60 games), so saying he only plays there cos he's effective when Messi doesn't play there is wrong. If Barca wanted a striker they'd have bought one, not pushed Cesc up front.

    If you really want to bring up Ronaldo, do they think he would play for Chelsea or Man City?
    The ones with sense do. A lot of Man. United fans can't get over their wet Portuguese dream though.

    Once again extremely unlikely because he respects United and the fans and knows that it would not be the right thing to do.
    This is starting to frustrate me a little now. Football has shown us time and time again that players disappoint the fans. That is a fact. Everything else is irrelevant pretty much.

    Did he respect the fans when he told a bare faced lie to them on telly? What about 2008? :rolleyes:

    I agree that most footballers do not have loyalty but your trying to present them all as mercenaries who do not have a personal attachment to their club, which Cesc clearly has to Arsenal. A lot depends on the mentality and personality of the player as well you know, like Gotze did not think twice about ditching Dortmund for Bayern even though they are competitive.
    No, I'm saying other factors can outweigh personal attachment to the club, which is what happened with van Persie which some of you can't seem to grasp. It's not as black and white as you think it is, where if a player leaves and you're pissed off, that means he's a prick and never had any attachment to the club.

    (Original post by sr90)
    In all fairness Wilshere is actually a born and bred Arsenal fan, unlike any of the others. As long as they're in the Champions League he isn't going anywhere.
    Rooney was a born and bred Evertonian. Gerrard although not a born and bred fan was Liverpool through and through. Still **** on them though.
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    (Original post by TheInvincibles14)
    If you really want to bring up Ronaldo, do they think he would play for Chelsea or Man City? Once again extremely unlikely because he respects United and the fans and knows that it would not be the right thing to do.
    He did on Football Manager. I still haven't forgiven him!

    But, yes, I do. Or if he did I wouldn't be surprised. If he became desperate to leave Real Madrid, and we couldn't afford him/didn't wan't to buy him, then I fully expect he'd go to Chelsea or City if offers from either, or both, came in. Especially if these clubs had just recently won the league or were strong contenders for the Champions League.
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    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    Rooney was a born and bred Evertonian. Gerrard although not a born and bred fan was Liverpool through and through. Still **** on them though.
    Valid point but Everton were usually fighting relegation in that era, aside from Moyes' first full season (Rooney's breakthrough) when they came like 6th. Slightly bigger jump than moving from Arsenal, who even though they haven't won anything for years are still competing at the highest level.
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    (Original post by TheInvincibles14)

    If you really want to bring up Ronaldo, do they think he would play for Chelsea or Man City?
    Probably not City but Chelsea yes, Ronaldo loved United but if he thought Chelsea were the better team, had the better chance of winning the UCL and Ballon D'or and got paid the most there, I guarantee you Ronaldo would join Chelsea, as much as it hurts to say it its a fact, RVP joined United because his patience with Arsenal's motivation ran out, and its unfair in a sense to Arsenal because you stood by him all through his injuries but he was 29 and wanted to achieve more than just CL football in his career, Hargreaves done the same to us, he ****ed off to City with no respect to United after we held by his injuries. Players such as Ronaldo, Fabregas, Henry were not loyal but are still Legends because they plaid there heart out for the team and delivered success and spoke fondly of the team always. RVP has done the same with Arsenal, do you seriously think that without getting 4th place last season players such as Carzola would've come to Arsenal, RVP should be respected for that and the fact that after leaving he hasn't behaved like Nasri/Adebayor and has acted with class and has always spoken fondly of Arsenal. Plus Wilshere could also leave Arsenal for United/City/Chelsea one day, as Arsenal have become a selling club (harsh but true) because Arsenal are not winning trophies and have no sugar daddy, look at BVB they've had recent success and still players wish to leave and the fact that Gotze/ and soon Lewa will go to Munich prove that in football the vast majority are only loyal if you are delivery continued success or money to the player, if United doesn't win a trophy in 7 years or if Chelsea/City lose their sugar daddies players will leave from them as well.
 
 
 
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