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    (Original post by Templar49)
    You are aware that EFTA countries are subject to EU legislation, right?
    Only partially. The fact remains, they're prospering fine without EU membership.

    The EU's just an undemocratic dream.

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    [QUOTE=FinnianC;40817750]
    (Original post by Harry Callahan)
    If you consider that horrific, I do wonder about your priorities.


    Wonderful, the biggest crisis of our generation that needs to be acted on immediately if our ancestors are to have any chance of a good quality of life, and you would prioritise military spending and exiting the (on the whole, beneficial IMO) EU.

    I, sir, do wonder at your priorities.
    I'm sorry, but there's really no crisis. It's just another of the Earth's natural cycles that has been exacerbated by governments and energy companies to justify extortionate pricing. Yes, the Earth may be heating up, but how can it be proved that it's not part of a natural cycle? It can't.
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    (Original post by Harry Callahan)
    Only partially. The fact remains, they're prospering fine without EU membership.

    The EU's just an undemocratic dream.

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    No, its pretty much the same amount of legislation as actual member states. And they also have to contribute to the EU budget. The only real difference is, no actual imput on the laws they have to abide by because they dont get EU parliament representation. So, why is this a better situation?

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    (Original post by Templar49)
    No, its pretty much the same amount of legislation as actual member states. And they also have to contribute to the EU budget. The only real difference is, no actual imput on the laws they have to abide by because they dont get EU parliament representation. So, why is this a better situation?

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    EFTA members are exempt from around 70% of EU legislation, so it's not at all.

    Have a read of this: http://www.brugesgroup.com/mediacent...?article=10488
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    (Original post by Harry Callahan)
    EFTA members are exempt from around 70% of EU legislation, so it's not at all.

    Have a read of this: http://www.brugesgroup.com/mediacent...?article=10488
    Leaving aside the laughable bias and cherry-picked, out of context evidence there, i thought your rationale for leaving was that we shouldn't be bound by an 'undemocratic dream'. Surely it would be even less democratic to be bound by legislation nobody from the UK even voted for at all, despite being bound by less EU legislation?

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    (Original post by Templar49)
    Leaving aside the laughable bias and cherry-picked, out of context evidence there, i thought your rationale for leaving was that we shouldn't be bound by an 'undemocratic dream'. Surely it would be even less democratic to be bound by legislation nobody from the UK even voted for at all, despite being bound by less EU legislation?

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    What about your laughable bias? Pot and kettle spring to mind.

    We're bound by around 70% of EU legislation, whereas countries in EFTA are bound by much less - around 25%.

    Let's face it, you're clutching at straws.
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    (Original post by Harry Callahan)
    What about your laughable bias? Pot and kettle spring to mind.

    We're bound by around 70% of EU legislation, whereas countries in EFTA are bound by much less - around 25%.

    Let's face it, you're clutching at straws.
    I'n clutching at straws? LOL.

    Thats surely still undemocratic? You're completely contradicting what you said earlier, how can you be fine with an even less democratic system where we have literally no input on the laws we're expected to adhere? You said, and i quote, that the EU is an "undemocratic dream". There is such contradiction going on here its hilarious, and I'm afraid you are the one clutching at straws here, as you seem to be advocating a system less democratic than our current one to get out of our current "undemocratic" system.

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    (Original post by Templar49)
    You're completely contradicting what you said earlier.
    He does that a lot. You'll get used to it.
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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    He does that a lot. You'll get used to it.
    Guess I'll have to, lol

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    (Original post by Templar49)
    I'n clutching at straws? LOL.

    Thats surely still undemocratic? You're completely contradicting what you said earlier, how can you be fine with an even less democratic system where we have literally no input on the laws we're expected to adhere? You said, and i quote, that the EU is an "undemocratic dream". There is such contradiction going on here its hilarious, and I'm afraid you are the one clutching at straws here, as you seem to be advocating a system less democratic than our current one to get out of our current "undemocratic" system.

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    Undemocratic in that the bureaucrats are unelected, yes. Who exactly are they? No one knows.

    The benefits of EFTA membership far outweigh the disadvantages, which cannot be said for he EU.


    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    He does that a lot. You'll get used to it.
    No one asked for your opinion, luvvie.

    We all know you sympathise with criminals, so your opinion's instantly null and void.
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    (Original post by Harry Callahan)
    Undemocratic in that the bureaucrats are unelected, yes. Who exactly are they? No one knows.

    The benefits of EFTA membership far outweigh the disadvantages, which cannot be said for he EU.

    So why is the EU not being democratic a reason for us leaving if the alternative is also undemocratic? You are making no sense.

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    (Original post by Templar49)
    So why is the EU not being democratic a reason for us leaving if the alternative is also undemocratic? You are making no sense.

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    In what way is EFTA undemocratic?
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    (Original post by Harry Callahan)
    In what way is EFTA undemocratic?
    Having to adhere to laws and regulations that the UK had absolutely no role in creating? We wouldn't get MEPs, so we'd have no input.

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    (Original post by Harry Callahan)
    No one asked for your opinion, luvvie.

    We all know you sympathise with criminals, so your opinion's instantly null and void.
    You agreed with me at one point, darling.
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    (Original post by Templar49)
    Having to adhere to laws and regulations that the UK had absolutely no role in creating? We wouldn't get MEPs, so we'd have no input.

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    We wouldn't necessarily have to join EFTA - I was simply putting it forward as an example of a successful EU alternative. We should be a free state as far as I'm concerned.


    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    You agreed with me at one point, darling.
    Nah, I was only tagging you along. I felt sorry for you that you were so outnumbered. Thank God the majority of this country's population don't think like you, criminal sympathiser.
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    (Original post by Harry Callahan)
    We wouldn't necessarily have to join EFTA - I was simply putting it forward as an example of a successful EU alternative. We should be a free state as far as I'm concerned.
    So you agree it's pointless in terms of escaping EU tyranny to still be subject to EU legislation? Well thats good.

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    (Original post by Harry Callahan)
    Nah, I was only tagging you along. I felt sorry for you that you were so outnumbered. Thank God the majority of this country's population don't think like you, criminal sympathiser.
    Haha, you're cute. I like you.
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    (Original post by Templar49)
    So you agree it's pointless in terms of escaping EU tyranny to still be subject to EU legislation? Well thats good.

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    There's plenty of point in escaping EU tyranny to become a free state, though.
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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    Haha, you're cute. I like you.
    No, I'm not cute, I'm a ****, but that's what's necessary I'm afraid.

    Criminal sympathiser.
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    (Original post by Cllr Ben AM)
    UKIP's policies are common sense. The European Union is fundamentally undemocratic. The 2007 Lisbon Treaty ousted into power 27 Commissioners without a single vote. These Commissioners make, according to a report by Open Europe, 53 percent of our laws. So, in essence, most of our laws aren't even made by our elected Westminster Parliament, but made by an unelected EU Commission hundreds of miles away in Brussels. Britain should have the ability to make her own laws - they shouldn't be made, as Lib/Lab/Con/Green advocate, by an unelected superstate.
    The Greens support the EU subject to democratic reform, such as the transition of all its lawmaking powers to the European Parliament. Caroline Lucas has consistently supported holding a referendum on EU membership.


    On immigration, their policies are also sensible - when the room is full you shut the door. Of course, membership of the £53 million a day EU means that we have to have a complete open door to the whole of Europe, thereby meaning 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians now have acess to our already overcrowded islands.
    Prove that the UK is 'overcrowded'.

    Also, this argument can be made to look ridiculous with just a few word changes:

    'Of course, London's membership of the UK means that we have to have a complete open door to the whole of Britain, thereby meaning 50 million Midlanders and Northerners now have access to our already overcrowded city.

    Therefore London should leave the UK.'
 
 
 
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